08.01.08 2008 - the Year of the Electric Car?

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Would you consider getting an electric car?

The beginning of a new year is usually the time for resolutions, spring cleaning and a renewed sense of optimism, but 2008 has got off to a miserable start so far.

In quick succession, oil prices hit $100 a barrel, npower announced it was hiking prices by 27%, and British Gas looks set to be the first to follow suit.

The anxiety over a looming energy crisis, increasing fuel prices, and the knock-on effect this has on petrol, food and other commodity prices, has been brewing for some time now. The voices that maintain that we cannot continue to consume energy at the rate we currently are (let alone increase consumption) are getting louder. New technology, such as the electric car, has been touted as a way to sustain our current lifestyles, but has so far has failed to make any considerable impact. However, with electric cars on the market that boast acceleration of 0-60 in 4 seconds, the idea that we could all be driving electric cars and filling up at power stations rather than petrol stations is not as far in the future as you might think. Could 2008 finally be the year of the electric car?

Petrol station of the future Electric cars are not new. Before Henry Ford invented the petrol powered car, electric vehicles (EVs) were a common form of transport. By the 1960s petrol cars had effectively forced their electric cousins into extinction, but growing concerns about a fuel crisis have sparked a renewed interest in electric cars as a more efficient, environmentally-friendly method of personal transport.

Early forays into the consumer electric car market, notably the EV1 by General Motors, were scuppered by high prices, a poor range and a lack of public support (although many felt the EV1 was never really given a chance). Hybrid technology, a combination of electric and petrol power, was heralded as a compromise, and by 1997 the Toyota Prius was available to the general public. It was the first mass produced and commercially marketed hybrid car, selling 18,000 units in its first year. It is still a popular car today, thanks to a variety of celebrity endorsements, and demonstrated that the public appetite for alternative transport does exist.
G-Wiz But environmental purists argue that hybrid technology doesn't go far enough – that it is simply lip service to the concept of greener transport. Luckily, 'pure electric' vehicle technology has advanced enough to make EVs for the masses a reality, without compromising on speed, power or style.

Electric cars have had a bad press in the past from petrol heads, because they often fall down in fundamentally inportant areas – price, performance and aesthetics. However, a new wave of EVs are about to hit the market which will change all that, and some EVs are already available at affordable prices. The G-Wiz is one of the most popular EVs in London because of its compact design. It costs less than £9000 brand new, and as little as 1p per mile to run – G-Wiz claim it pays for itself within a year. It's practical, and has all sorts of money-saving benefits, but with a range of 48 miles, it's not exactly practical for anyone living outside a big city. Plus, it looks like (and has the street cred of) an oversized frog.


Mitsubishi i-EVThe Mitsubishi i-EV, although still in development, is slightly more attractive that the G-Wiz. When it does hit the UK, you'll be able to drive over 100 miles before needing to charge it again, and as with the G-Wiz, it will cost around 1p a mile to run. An average tank of fuel for a petrol car costs £40 - for the same price you can get a year's worth of energy in an EV. When you do the sums, turning your back on petrol seems a very attractive prospect. Unfortunately though, there seems to be no release date as yet, but you can register for alerts in the meantime.



Phoenix SUTThe Phoenix Sports Utility Truck, however, is available to buy now. Happily, it looks less like a toy and more like it means business – it can do 0 – 60 in 10 seconds, with a full car, and you'll get over 100 miles from one charge. It's top speed is a much more respectable 95mph, and you can get 250,000 miles from one battery. At the moment the company is focused on the fleet car market, so there are only a limited number of cars available to the public (the public of California, that is), but like so many things, where the US goes, it is only a matter of time before the UK follows.




Tesla RoadsterThe G-Wiz and the Phoenix are both practical, everyday cars, but another criticism often directed at EVs is that they're not fun – they're purely functional. This is simply not true anymore - there are cars on the market to rival even the super cars. The Tesla Roadster, assembled by Lotus in Norwich, gives you a glimpse of what is now possible. It offers 0-60 in 4 seconds, with full torque available from the moment your foot touches the pedal, and a top speed of 125mph. One charge will take you 250 miles, and in case you get caught out, it comes with a mobile charging unit, which uses an ordinary 240v wall plug. The only problem is getting hold of one – there's a pretty big waiting list.



LightningBut if you are interested in getting an EV, and you want to get on a waiting list, the Lightning car is the one to be on. It won't be cheap (the deposit alone is £50,000) but it will be a landmark in British automotive engineering when they are delivered in 2008. The Lightning will be a luxury 2 seater sports car, with over 700bhp and a top speed of 130mph. It promises to do 0 - 60 in 4 seconds, and have a range of 250 miles per charge. It might not be a economically viable option for the majority of us to start with because of the initial price tag, but if we are capable of producing cars like this today, it will only be a matter of time before the price drops and production increaces. And more importantly, what will we be capable of tomorrow?

One of the main attractions to all the EVs above is the fantastically low running costs. There are a few areas where EVs positively triumph over petrol cars. First, they're exempt from road tax because they have no emissions. In London, EVs are also exempt from the congestion charge, and are often entitled to free or heavily discounted parking. There are even a number of free charging stations dotted around the city in case you get caught out. To reduce the cost of charging an EV at home, you can sign up to special green energy tariff, which reduces the cost of power at night, so it can cost as little as 40p for a full charge. On top of all this, EVs are in the lowest insurance group, and as a company car they are charged a mere 9% tax. If UK petrol prices are making it too expensive to run a car, electric cars are surely the way forward. And in addition to saving money, you can feel smug about helping to save the environment. Assuming they are charged using renewable sources, all the cars listed above are carbon neutral. And they release no pollutants, making the air cleaner for everyone.

Electric cars are the future of motoring – very few people are prepared to give up their personal transport, and as fossil fuels die out (or become too impractical to rely on), EVs will be there to fill the void, without compromising our current lifestlyes. The gap between EVs and petrol cars is closing fast, and it is only a matter of time before the performance of the Lightning becomes as cheap as the G-Wiz, and before the UK follows the US in terms of availability. It won't happen overnight, but with increasingly impressive tech-specs and a growing army of followers, 2008 looks set to be the year that we reach the all-important critical mass of supporters, and start to accelerate towards a cheaper, cleaner future.

What do you think? Do you think electric cars are the future of transport? Would you like to slash your fuel costs and save the environment at the same time?

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Maybe we the British should just bend over and take it? - Oh yeah sorry we already do!

Lets face it, we are never going to get the answers we already know or the changes in transportation we all well and truly know about, we are going to be bled dry - like one famous minister once said "We will squeeze them till the pips squeak!"

The powers that be have over the years tweaked the laws in such a way that we the population can not really do anything about anything anymore, they have us exactly where they want us with no way of us doing anything about it - they will continue to monitor the average wage and make judgement from that as to what taxes to hike, what new charges to introduce and what new laws to pass to keep us all inline!

Am off to Spain for good soon and will look back on th UK every now and then just to see how gullable and suppressed the population has become, am sure the taxes will continue to rise above inflation, wages will hardly go up as more imagration threatens ever more, ministers will be getting richer and new technology will be drip fed as and when it suits them and their global collegues..

England as we knew it has gone for good, petrol will never go down and the government will always give us lip service for our common sense!

Posted by Peter Harvey, 11th January 2008 4:25pm

electric vehicles are dead in the water
until charging weight , and battery life are sorted out
they are certainly not the green machines that they are made out to be
the manufacture of them , is more polluting than a petrol car
they are only any good for the city/town driving anyway
I've added a hho generator to my car and the mpg is much better
and virtually no pollution from the exhaust
hydrogen on demarned will be more popular in the near future
if only more money was put into research

Posted by Steve Harris, 11th January 2008 4:29pm

Electric cars might be ok for short commuting journeys, but the technology has still a bit to go and generally they will still consume carbon energy.

My fuel costs have been slashed recently ....
My previously weekly fuel bill now lasts 3-4 weeks .....

by cycling to work 3 days a week from October. The other two days I need my car due to commitments immediately after work.

The occasional cold and wet weather is not a problem, shorts have been the rig of the day throughout. Roll on the Spring/Summer.

Apart from being more environmentally friendly, there are also some very useful benefits such as :
1. door-door quicker than the car to commute 6.0 miles at peak times
2. No road stress, use mainly cycle paths & pavements (in quiet areas)
3. The excuse 'didn't have time to excercise today' is canned
4. The days you can't cycle, you miss it
5. Cardio Vascular System loving it ... as other parts of the body.
6. Feel great, arrive at work and home invigorated.

Notwithstanding the above the current fuel prices are well out of order as cars and transportation are part of our modern lifestyle.

Posted by Stuart Simpson, 11th January 2008 4:34pm

452, steve check out 436

Posted by Peter Harvey, 11th January 2008 4:35pm

I'm really surprised by the number of negative comments written here, when we are talking about trying to clean up our environment. Electric cars don't pollute the atmosphere and they are incredibly cheap to run. Two very good reasons for a lot of us seriously considering owning one.
There are bound to be difficulties. People who are unable to charge them up overnight, because they have to park in the road etc. would obviously not be wise to buy one just now. People who drive 500 miles every day should stick to their diesels for now. But for many, who can charge their batteries up easily at home, and who normally have a low mileage, it makes a great deal of sense. It is good for them and good for our planet. Over time, those opportunities could be made available to everyone.

Posted by Martin Speakman, 11th January 2008 4:46pm

Might be ok in towns but I live in the sticks and I don't think it would be practical. We have 1 in 3 hills and plenty of rough roads so what would happen if you ran out of power??

Posted by Keith Buckland, 11th January 2008 4:57pm

Yes i would give up petrol. I am allready trying.
I cycle to work as much as possible, i therefore havent renewed my car as normal. Porsche have lost a sale, the tax from that sale would have been considerable. I cant pretend im happy about this but cars are clean and motorists are and will continue to be exploited. I am starting to despise something i have always been passionate about.

Posted by Car Nerd, 11th January 2008 5:02pm

I looked up "green" in the dictionary. It says: "Easily duped or deceived; gullible."

Need I say more?

Posted by Ax, 11th January 2008 5:02pm

The cynical amongst us will wait for the government to catch on and dream up some other massive new tax to compensate for their losses and bow to the pressures of the oil giants to protect thier interests. All their talk of environmental protection goes out of the window when their revenues start dropping.

Posted by Dave Chorlton, 11th January 2008 5:04pm

There are power units which run on hydrogen, water, fresh air and other "fuels". The patents for these have almost entirely been bought up by the oil giants or the the big car maker companies. They won't allow these products onto the market until practically all the oil has gone and that won't be for a long time yet, the reason for the high petrol and diesel prices is because of the speculators buying up barrels of oil before it comes out of the ground. The tanker farms are full of the stuff and it won't be put on the market until the speculators are satisfied the demand price has reached the optimum price, that is at the price just before everyone is prepared to take their cars off the roads.

Posted by Stewart Hanson, 11th January 2008 5:05pm

EV's won't take over the world overnight, but as a short distance commuter car they are ideal

Posted by Peter Weston, 11th January 2008 5:14pm

Dont have a problem with the new electric cars and I hope that they do prove to be the answer, but I cant help wondering what would happen to my electric car if I got caught in a bank holiday jam that went on for hour after hour, such as happened recently, and I ran out of charge. Not much hope of a top up on the hard shoulder of the motorway even if I was strong enough to push my car there in the first place! I think the future will probably see some of these wrinkles ironed out but I dont think its worth buying an electric car at the moment.

Posted by Kimberleigh Martin, 11th January 2008 5:15pm

THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT IS ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE ELECTRICITY-
FOSSIL FUELS ARE ONLY GOING TO LAST FOR A WHILE - THERE'S NO CHOICE LONG TERM - IT'S PROBABLY EITHER GOING TO BE HYDROGEN, ELECTRIC
OR MAYBE COMPRESSED AIR - TO HAVE A CHOICE OF ALL OF THEM WOULD BE BEST! BIKES ARE BEST FOR ALL OF US BUT THE CYCLE NETWORK IN THIS COUNTRY IS , WITH MINUTE EXCEPTIONS, A JOKE.

Posted by Frank Guest, 11th January 2008 5:16pm

Just returned from Perth - Western Australia where they are panicing because petrol has just reached $1.50 per litre...... that is approx 65p per litre. Its the British Government that makes and allows us to be ripped off on fuel, gas, electric etc. etc. And before anyone starts defending the Labour party - STOP - I mean over the last 50 years government.

Posted by Sandie Cotterell, 11th January 2008 5:17pm

The problem with electric cars at the moment is the same old- age old problem of power energy supply the batteries in other words the new Li Poly type batteries are great but have a very short life and are dam well expensive to replace for an average car we are talking upwards of £8,000 and a life of maybe fifty thousand miles making todays available knowledge a little unpractical I have to say Available Knowledge because there is more and more proof that there is much better technology in use and better research behind closed doors that us mear tax payers are ever allowed to see let alone have a chance to be able to use such devices even though most of the research on said such means of energy producing technology is paid for by us in taxes there are some people whom have the brilliant insight imto making things that would quite easily power electric vehicals that could run cost free but cannot get funding from anyware because people are afraid of the consequencies from the big oil conglomerates and Government alike because they make so much money and revenue out of fuel-oil and have the controling upper hand to empower us all to me this is common greed on their behalf and would like to see more effort put in by our Government to encourage such things as Elemental Rod Energy and water to Hydrogen as a direct replacement for petrol but it is always possitively discouraged by even our own Government to help anyone build proper working units and any companies that get approached are told to stay away from this kind of research or the consequencies are di-er in other words they dont want us all running around for free even though these methods that I have mentioned are completely cleen to the environment and would be almost free to the user it is so sad that they put more presidence into dangerouse and dirty fuels just because it suits the greedy pocket's of them and their dirty little friends the oil conglomerates for those of you that work on these good clean cheep energies I take my hat off to you all

Posted by Keith Manyoni, 11th January 2008 5:25pm

Great, lets just throw away millions of petrol engined cars and hike up global warming by replacing them with new electric cars?!! Why not have all the benefits of your existing petrol engined car and more power by switching to LPG (112 octane) at only 48p per litre!!

Posted by Chris Brice, 11th January 2008 5:32pm

1997- diesel emissions dirty etc?, Duty up!
2007- CO2 emissions global warming,more Duty and road tax
2017-electric ?

Posted by Chris Marks, 11th January 2008 5:33pm

I am afraid now that everyone is caving in to government propaganda.It is quite obvious that the "take"from the taxman is obscene and should be challenged.It would appear that lapses in said governments activities can be overlooked as oversights but the general publics opinions carry no weight at all.
It is a pre requisite of this government to make it advisable for all to conform with actions against global warming and our inane carbon footprint.
Chris Baxendale

Posted by Chris Baxendale, 11th January 2008 5:33pm

Well here we go again the main topic of conversation is fuel, or how to accommodate or selves in our changing world, there really is not a direct answer that we would all like to here is there. so where do we start being a motorist is hard at the best of times and ever increasing rises in taxes are dooming the loyal driver, I would just like to say that we are all individuals in this fine world of ours each person with there own situation and needs, so to ask people if electric is a way of the future, well in an idea world this would be fine but the realism of it all is that we don't do we,

Posted by Richard Thomas, 11th January 2008 5:36pm

Henry Ford built the first mass produced motor car. Invent it? I don't think so.
If I can buy a car in the near future with a power consumption of £1 per 100 mile and a battery life of 250,000 miles , I'm going to start getting interested,
inspite of the list of snags being point out. The price must become more realistic of course.
The goverment will tax the power, but not until there are a few thousand cars on the road. They will want to encourage us to buy these cars, so I guess it would be a gradual increase over several years.
And I am just beginning to wonder how did H. Ford persuade his customers to buy, when there were hardly any petrol stations and chemist shops?

Posted by Marshall Cooper, 11th January 2008 5:36pm

I think it is a matter otime before we go back to what we started with ,and that is steam.

Posted by Owen Davis, 11th January 2008 5:37pm

As Alan 36 said we are facing a power shortage so going green with electric cars will create a problem -where are we going to get the extra power from,
+ as with deisel , it use to be a lot cheeper than unleaded ,then folk changed to deisel power the chancelor saw his chance and added more tax, i will happen with electric power cars

Posted by Peter, 11th January 2008 5:38pm

I am seriously thinking of buying a haybrid car, such as those currently being sold by Toyota or Honda. As I understand it, the amount of electricity required to top up the battery is a trickle - the battery being charged by the small petrol motor which takes over from the battery and continues to charge it whilst operating the car. We should try to wean ourselves off petrol a.s.a.p. because it isn't going to last for ever and meanwhile, prices will continue to rise

Posted by Ian Brett, 11th January 2008 5:45pm

This true, we would end up getting taxed heavily on the electric, off topic a little, if I was to buy one litre of fuel at £109.9 how much would I pay? yes thats right £110.0 ...so this means I am paying .01p for no fuel whats so ever!!! all those .01p's will add up to a hell of a lot of profit for the fuel companies !!! we should be campagning to stop this i.e get exactly the amount of fuel we pay for. Or round the price down instead of up!!!

Jim.

Posted by Jim Stafford, 11th January 2008 5:46pm

I am sure EV's represent one of the ways forward towards cheaper transport and a cleaner environment. However don't underestimate the speed with which the Government will find a way to tax the revolution. They are not going to roll over and see their fat tax on petrol/diesel disappear without dreaming up something to replace it. In the end we might get a cleaner environment but it will still cost a fortune.

Posted by Tom Hayward, 11th January 2008 6:04pm

Batteries are notorious for not being frugle with the power they use - I understand only about 10% of the power put into them is actually stored in the battery - perhaps someone could update this figure for me.

However, if the car is left plugged into the mains overnight to charge, a big take-up of electric vehicles means that more power would have to be generated overnight, requiring power generators to be run longer.

Given that excess electricity cannot be stored for later use (as gas can be stored in gas-holders) and the power distribution system also loses some of the power on its way to the consumer, a good deal of the electricity generated will be wasted.

In theory, electric vehicles are a good idea, but the practicality , to my mind is that the benefits are not as great as we are led to believe. Added to which, the production and disposal of the batteries (including shipping them around the world on diesel powered vehicles/vessels) leaves a lot to be desired.

Posted by Daved, 11th January 2008 6:11pm

I am disabled and recently bought an electric "buggy" (top of the range) at the discounted price of £1,800. I think they are about £2,000 without discount. Although the range is only about 25 miles and the speed a mere 10 - 15 mph the buggy is ideal for trips to the local shops etc. There is no road tax, no need for a driving licence and it can be used on the road or pavement. It takes up very little space in a garage. I can recommend such a vehicle to wived and single people who just want wheels for journeys that are perhaps up hill or when one is tired at the end of a busy day.

Posted by Donald Andeson, 11th January 2008 6:11pm

I go abroad with our caravan at least twice a year, this involves a journey of many hundreds of miles to get to the sun, so far no one has come up with a reasonable alternative to fossel fuels. So I must vote against electric cars.
And before any wag says I should not be poluting the world in this way. Why should I bother when goverments polute our environment by wasting electricity by not switching office lights of in Whitehall and other buildings.
cycling commandant

Posted by Keith Wright, 11th January 2008 6:11pm

With near present (i.e almost there) technology I would consider a diesel/electric hybrid. The pure electric range to be about 40 miles, the small diesel to run at maximum efficiency while it is running and be capable of running the car on the level and constant speed at 70 mph. The electric motor to provide for acceleration and hill climbing in tandem with the diesel and soley for slow running in built up areas. It would also be possible to recharge batteries fully from the mains. Such a car would be suitable for short range commuting in built up areas purely elecctrically but also capable of long range running at very high efficiency on diesel.

Posted by John Youngs, 11th January 2008 6:20pm

How are we going to produce the electricty ? Need I say more.........

Posted by Alan Turner, 11th January 2008 6:26pm

How much do they cost?

Posted by Shirley Earland, 11th January 2008 6:29pm

Unfortunately it's a fundamental law of physics that you cannot achieve perpetual motion. Friction being the main culprit. You can however mitigate your costs with hybrid technology. We need to be thinking differently batteries are toxic, their disposal or recycle suitability non existent.
I believe the way forward is the further development of fuel cell technology, expensive at the moment but mass production and the Asian Tiger would bring prices down.

Posted by Jim Toth, 11th January 2008 6:31pm

They're still a bit of a compromise for me - you can either have a quick one or one that will do a decent distance. The quick ones are also far too expensive. I;ve got a bike (600 cc) that'll do 0-60 on not very much at all, uses little petrol, does about 150 miles between fills and only cost the guts of £3000...

For longer distances and winter (it gets icy and snowy up here in the North) I've got a landrover - approx 450 miles between fills.

I would actually be quite interested to know how the cold affects the distance / performance of electric cars, from working with batteries in UPS systems battery capacity is greatly reduced in cold temperatures.

Posted by Jon Procee, 11th January 2008 6:33pm

The elictric car has been with us for alot longer than you think.
It was down to the car makers to get somthing smaller than all the fist gallion gozzelers.
They are the ones that put a stop to elictric cars so they could stay with the petrol car and make money.
In the 1930s/1950s they had the mienes to put the elictric car on the road in mass but they put they petrol car on the road.
But it is the goverment that is takking most of the money on a liter of petrol.and as has been sead it will be the goverment that well find a way to tax the elictric car off the road as they are trying to do with the petrol car.

Posted by Alan Fernley, 11th January 2008 6:35pm

I think that what we need is a major research program into producing a light weight ,fast chargeing and highly efficient battery that can hold a high current. Why can't the major motor companies set up a research group to look in to it. Just imagine a battery no bigger than the one in your car that is capable of achieving 500 miles on one charge in a family saloon car.
Another idea is to have a standard battery module, for all cars. so that as you run out of power, you simple pull into a motor services and swop it for a fully charged one just like battery powered fork lift trucks do in a whare house. With a super efficient battery we could afford to power our homes with them and charge them up with solar panels on the roofs and wind power that will keep charging at night when we are asleep.

Posted by David Tinkler, 11th January 2008 6:36pm

What's the point of having electric cars, they don't have good range, electricity is only getting more expensive, and you can't use the radio or air con because that will the battery down, there are'nt any big models eg MPV's or SUVs', the government would only make "electric car electricity tax" then more tax on cars that use more electricity. Remember the government loves tax and if everyone has an electric car the government won't get any money from congestion charging and you'll have to pay tax on any car environmentally friendly or not. So sacrificing superior petrol would be for nothing, the way forward is ethanol or hydrogen. Any petrol car can be converted to ethanol just like when Britain switched from 4 star to unleaded and you could pay £50 to have your car converted. We can make as much ethanol as we like because it's made from plants and we can make as much hydrogen as we like. if you buy an electric car to "save the planet" think again most this country's electricity comes from burning fossil fuels so having a small electric could make your beloved carbon foot print bigger than having a small petrol or diesel car. and hybrids don't work you will never get 60 mpg from a prius and if you put your foot down your mpg's really drop in fact you'll probably only average 40-45mpg and any small car will do that in fact even a big diesel could do that. So there we go THE FUTURE IS ETHANOL OR HYDROGEN remember this government lives of tax so the rewards for having an eco friendly car won't last for long

Posted by Andrew Jarvie, 11th January 2008 6:41pm

I still say tax the petrol but abbolish the road tax, least that way we have a choice, my salary increase over the past few years is not in line with the increase in cost of motoring

Posted by Wendy Carter, 11th January 2008 7:04pm

For anyone who wonders just what mpg your petrol car does on short journeys: a departure from my usual routine (large 2 litre injection car, averaging 39.5mpg & little difference to that at fill-ups) to doing 22 journeys of half a mile from cold. Have calculated 8mpg or slightly under. Makes you think!

Posted by Andrew Currie, 11th January 2008 7:10pm

All very interesting listening to the various debates relating to the pros and cons of electric cars, but just thought I would mention (that is if someone has not already beaten me to it), that there are already other forms of electric vehicles.

Electrically assisted bicycles have now been around for quite a few years now and are quite good, although limited to 15 mph if running unassisted and using only battery and motor power. The Ezee models that are imported into the UK are very effective and 15 mph is a lot faster than most city traffic goes. The range of these machines is around 20/30 miles per charge, depending on the amount of assistance provided by the rider. The prices start at around £1000 for these premium models.

An American company Vectrix are now producing an electric scooter that has quite startling performance, with similar acceleration to a 250/400cc motorcycle although with an upper limited speed of 62 mph to conserve battery life and a range of 50/60 miles between charges. The prices start at around £7000 for these premium models.

The aim of this site would appear to help provide the public with cheaper fuel and transport options. Please keep up the good work!

Posted by Kevin Roche, 11th January 2008 7:21pm

Energy density is a problem. This is why it would be better, for now, to look at either hybrid systems like PHEVs, or super-flywheel drives. There are examples of SUVs like Humvee sizes that use a gas turbine to burn any combustible fuel you want, that feeds into an electric drive system. It's not unlike the setup in the M1A2 Abrams tank. The turbine gets the energy for the electrical motors from chemical energy in a tank like a normal car. You can burn anything in a turbine near enough and with efficiencies twice that of an ICE (well over 40% for steam turbines a hundred years ago). The only problem I could see would be jet exhaust and noise, but they can be worked on easier than other problems in alternatives.

The other alternative listed is the super-flywheel. Unlike traditional designs, the one developed in Russia in the '80s consists of coiled composites tightly wound to produce a mass for the flywheel. You could have two contra-rotating at the centre of the car to avoid any gyroscope issues when cornering. They have practically unlimited (within certain engineering limits, that is) energy storage and unlike chemical batteries they won't suffer battery fatigue or the creation and disposal issues that go with toxic chemicals that can also be highly explosive.

Unlike the older flywheels, if one is caught in an accident, it simply unwinds in an armoured Kevlar housing. The coils could even be rewound later to be reused, assuming they aren't melted or turned to sand by the energy of impact combined with the angular momentum. This is far safer than solid blocks of dense material that, if shattered, would be like shrapnel bombs in your vehicle. If you have a high current source to charge from, you could also charge far quicker too and such flywheels can be idle for months without losing much kinetic energy, unlike chemical batteries discharging over time when connected.

Of course, many seem to be stuck on either pure EVs or hydrogen, which is annoying given Big Auto has had plenty of time to anticipate the end of oil (the '70s and '80s were good warning shots). As usual, us humans leave it till the last minute with our wonderful ability to self-delude. How very sad.

Posted by Zakalwe, 11th January 2008 7:23pm

Yep I show my age ,but did we not have the electric milk float ,the light HGV electric delivery lorry used at British rail in the 50's ,60's .Thes HGV'S are now seen in transport heritage sites ,what a waste ,surly a modern version of these HGV'S could be built and most frieght put back on rail as it was at one time .and use the fright terminals for local delivery to towns.It would be a brave person in the Government to encourage this and also offer major discount to all if we bought these electric versions.It would also be good for major hotels ,car parks to introduce hook up points to recharge vehicles at a price.why not ?

Posted by Nigel Satterly, 11th January 2008 7:24pm

I would love to have a battery car that would cost about 5k. Or even better a car that ran on just water .then no one could put any duty on like the labour crocks who are stealing our hard earned money through the amount of duty they've been getting over the last 10 years

Posted by Dean Anderson, 11th January 2008 7:25pm

i want a vehicle that seats 4/5 persons (comfortable) will travel travel 300 plus miles per charge and at times tow a trailer and dare I say a caravan (cheaper than flying) and cater for traffic jams within the charge .I have a VW caravelle 2.5 D and carry 4 to 6 persons at approx 40mpg and for 2/3 person travel a ford 1.4 tdi in town 55.7 on long distance 65/69 mpg if it can get better I am full of praise and willing to change habits but will every one else do so not on your life (and that is what it is coming to)

Posted by D Allen, 11th January 2008 7:26pm

EV's are fine especially if they have a range of 250 miles and can be charged from a standard 13 amp socket. However,don't be fooled by the running costs. Do we really believe Gordon Brown would let everyone travel at 1p per mile?!!! If it takes off, watch the tax applied really take off. Remember the diesel story?

Posted by Bernard Anderson, 11th January 2008 8:03pm

I haven't been able to read all 79,000 of these, so I hope I'm not saying what's already been said.

Assuming that EV stands for Electric Vehicle; a little History. Up to 1899 the World Land Speed Record was held by an EV ... two actually, or maybe four; anyway...

In 1898 - 1899 the record changed six times ... France vs Germany ... and the LSR went from 39 to 66mph. This record stood for three years, then it was taken by an SV (Steam Vehicle), then by an ICEV (you've guessed it).

You know, of course, that from that time on the Internal Combution Engine took over. Oh! Dash! I've given it away. What you may not know, is that for most of the 20th Century, this Country (the UK of course) fielded more EVs than any other Country in the World. That's it! The humble milk float.

I bet you didn't know, that Harrods ran a fleet of electric delivery vehicles (EDVs ?) until a few years ago; around the time that Mr Al Fayad took over. Perhaps some of his pals thought he should go Gasoline!

Fine! EVs are fine for short distance, low speed, deliveries. Their problem is ... and this is my point ... they are HEAVY! Very HEAVY !!! Your average milk float weighs 2 to 3 times that of a small car. Don't ever get into an argument with a milk float - especially if you're a Smart Car driver.

Under the platform the milk goes on, there's a massive bank of lead acid batteries, and to carry all that dead weigh there has to be a massive chassis and suspension.

All we need, is a battery producing ten times the power, and a tenth of the weight. Or a NBEV (NO Battery Electric Vehicle). Buses with arms reaching up to overhead electric cables would be great. We could call them Trolley Buses. Like the trains - No batteries.

The trouble is; as well as stripping it, we are outstripping the World. It's not big enough! I must phone Harrods and order another one!

Posted by Tony Taylor, 11 January 2008 8:05pm

Posted by Tony Taylor, 11th January 2008 8:09pm

OK. Assuming we could afford to purchase one of the new breed of electric vehicles, how do you think this criminal government would make up for the massive loss of fuel duty now we no longer require petrol or diesel? - Correct! - the cost of the electricity to recharge the bloody things would probably make us as "fuel poor" as we are now! - The government will always make sure if its popular, it's taxed to death!

Posted by Ken Willett, 11th January 2008 8:43pm

I believe The govenment and the Fuel Companys are just jumping on the band wagon, they'll make as much money as they can, and make the poorer even poorer.

Posted by Mr Barry Williams, 11th January 2008 8:56pm

dosent matter what we do,the leeches we call the government will still milk the working man for every penny should it be on petrol,electric,taxes,you name it we will pay for it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!sure this is the only country where you need a licence to watch tv!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

id buy an electric car but only if i owned the power station to run it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Sammyboy, 11th January 2008 9:03pm

Gordon brown has become highly dependant on the tax revenue raised through fuel duty, When people moved from petrol to diesel Gordon raised the fuel duty to compensate, If everyone converted to LPG, Gordon would Increase the duty on Gas, If Electric powered cars became common place, and threatened the profits from Gordons biggest earner, He would introduce pay per mile Taxes. the Electic car for commuting sounds a good Idea, but you would have to keep it hidden from Gordon Brown.

Posted by Philip Davidson, 11th January 2008 9:18pm

Whatever alternative is used the government will tax it. It has already happened to diesel and L.P.G..
Domestic electricity will need to be taxed to maintain revenue if batteries or fuel cells or used. The government may even make it illegal to charge a vehicle using domestic electricity. They know that the rich and influentual would never stand for it if the money was comimg from them. Indirectly taxing ordinary people is seen as a far softer option for subsidising government departments and public transport projects where cost are running out of control.
By the way why are we paying swinging duty on none calorific winter diesel additive? Whose pocketing that money?

Posted by Eric Fitzgerald, 11th January 2008 9:34pm

Sod the greenies how about a coal burning steam driven car.
Open up a few more pits, create more jobs.
Cheap local public transport please and ban the morning mum run to school.
Ban petrol driven cars and allow motorcycles and pushbikes only. Apart from steam driven car.
Bring back the electric trolly buses that used to run in our local towns.
Electric cars ok but how about a built in nuke to generate electric.

Yep... I am also mad..

Posted by Paul S, 11th January 2008 10:12pm

i am a younger disabled person; and part-take in the motability scheme. an electric car is not an option to me or others like me in the same position.

petrol prices being so high mean that people like me are not able to afford to keep filling up our cars. i feel we should have some type of exemption to paying the full cost of petrol at the pump price, i/we are not asking for special favours as most of us keep going without complaint; it just that its becoming so hard to manage to live on such a limited income, without the price of petrol hitting the roof.

to be given the option by motability to purchase a decent family electric car would be wonderful-they i feel have the 'clot' to push forward these ideas.

i think people like me would say a big yes to an electric car; or to the developement of 'rape seed petrol' surely then we may not have to relie on the arab countries for our very existance

Posted by Barbara J Bell, 11th January 2008 11:11pm

THE only way forward is to INVEST in the future of water powered vehicles, this has been shown to be possible - see mercola.com - and only requires one huge sum of money to get started. As we al have atap and can access this quite easily, there isn't ant problem about sources - only, when is the investment going to begin? If people would only stop seeing the wood from the treas, one couldd get rid of money as a problem in/with investments of this kind.

Posted by Peter Mitchell, 11th January 2008 11:22pm

I have heard that on the channel isle not sure which one there is a version of the toyata RAV 4 which is electric. Only problem is that the company will not let it come over here, nor will the renault company, and their clio electric .
My self I have a electric bike, Powerbyke, 21 speed , I still have to pedal a bit, but there are a few minor gripes, but I am sure, that the more people buy into them, the more companies can invest in future technology, and improve their product. I belive powerbyke have done this ,improving the batteries I have already designed a solar panel to charge it, just got to build it..
In my daily comute to Norwich if the electric car ould do it or my bike, I will take it

Posted by Steve Campbell, 11th January 2008 11:27pm

In reply to 499 - Diesel engines were invented by Rudolf Diesel to run on Rapeseed oil and so can all of todays diesels. The E.U has in June 2007 given the right for anyone who wishes to convert their vehicle to run on either pure Rapeseed Oil or a mixture of Rapeseed/diesel, they are exempt from all duties as long as they do not use more than 2400 litres of this oil type per year. And, with the better quality vehicles i.e VW, Skoda, Seat engines being able to average 60+ per gallon and as long as you do not exceed 31k miles per year, you pay NO tax!! This isn't widely known, as no one - not even Top Gear, have openly made it so. Ask your google to search for alternative diesel sources and you will locate the suppliers.

Posted by Peter Mitchell, 11th January 2008 11:36pm

Electric cars aren't the way forward, at least not in the short term - they take too long to charge, have a fairly poor range and for the moment the electricity is mostly generated by the burning of fossil fuels. The batteries are also very dangerous if they leak, as they often will in a major crash, and are both damaging to the environment in manufacture, and hard to dispose of. And to poster 448, Mark Evetts, the G-Wiz has a crash rating of ZERO STARS, the first vehicle ever to completely fail the test. I've seen a video of it being driven into a table lying on it's side...the car was completely destroyed and the table just had a small dent on the surface.

Short-term I believe hybrids and high-efficiency diesels are the best option (there are straight diesels on the market now that will easily do 75mpg). I can't quite work out why there aren't many diesel hybrids, this would seem like a better option as diesels are more efficient anyway.

Biofuel isn't workable en masse - there simply isn't enough agricultural land in the world to grow sufficient crops to meet demand. For example, if you covered every square inch of the USA's agri land with fuel crop, it would produce enough fuel to supply approximately four to five percent of the USA's fuel needs. And in the process you'd run out of space to grow food crops.

Hydrogen is an interesting new technology, and I can see it getting down to some sort of sensible price in the next 10-15 years, and I think ultimately this could be the way many cars of the future will be powered, alongside electric when we have the necessary nuclear infrastructure to power them, and better batteries to run them on.

As far as electricity generation in the UK goes, it's time we moved people and businesses away from the River Severn (to stop them drowning when the Bristol Channel floods), built a dam across it with tide turbines in it and got very cheap sustainable power for many many years to come. Yeah so you've got to pay to relocate a few people, but give them free electric for a couple of years and a nice new house and that should placate them.

Posted by Andrew M, 11th January 2008 11:47pm

A new energy store has been created by a company called EEstor, who have just signed a contract with Lockheed Martin. It has ten times the density of lithium batteries so it's ideally suited to electric vehicles.

In the States, CAT, the earth moving people have developed a battery called the Firefly. It is lead acid but with performance specs close to lithium, because they use a graphite carbon fam to carry lead slurry, so they're very light.

Which battery technology hasn't come on in the past few years is the question, they're all in direct competiotion and the companies making them are convinced they can go further quickly. As will electric cars too !

Posted by Chris Barron, 12th January 2008 12:04am

I would be all in favour of the electric car. Around town I would have no difficulties but from time to time I have to travel some 1200 kilometres. Can any body tell me what I would have to do having travelled the distance that the battery gave. Would there be stations that just exchanged the batteries in minutes or would I have to wait plugged into a socket for half a day to recharge. This might be something that the EU could really take advantage of if they are organised enough. The political dimensions too to the middle east might make things better or worse. whichever it might lead to a change which is hard to conceive is worse

Posted by Hugh Kilgour, 12th January 2008 12:12am

It is all very well having these small cars electric powered, but how about HGV, caravan owners, motorhomes etc., would the battery have to be bigger for the extra weight it is pulling. I enjoy going across country with my dogs towing my caravan for a break in the country. With an electric powered car, I feel that it would be imposible.

Posted by Derrick Oatham, 12th January 2008 12:14am

Peter Mitchell: Please tell me you're joking. Water powered? I assume you refer to the toy cars from China and the like that are good examples of miniature fuel-cells, because the link you mention has nothing on anything to do with automotive technology. Again, hydrogen is NOT an energy source. It is an energy MEDIUM, meaning you still need to find an energy source to make use of it. You may as well say batteries are the power source of the future.

I can assure you that hydrogen fuel-cells are not going to be in your car today or ten or even thirty years from now. By the time hydrogen is even economically viable, assuming the Big Auto companies haven't gone bankrupt by then, we'll have far bigger issues to worry about than grumbling over tax. I'd consider the fact that declining oil means the decline of _industrial civilisation_ itself. You wonder why food and electricity bills are going up? I think the chaos in Pakistan, Uganda, Indonesia, China and elsewhere where riots have taken place because of lack of fuel, food or basic needs that are supplied by cheap energy serve as a lesson. Road tax and how mean Brown is really doesn't keep me awake at night. Being able to feed my family and stop them from freezing in winter does, regardless of whether I can drive to work for a job that likely won't exist ten years from now.

So while I urge people to consider hybrids and EVs to suit their purposes, do not make the mistake of thinking such shiny ideas that may appease environmentalists will help continue our current lifestyles. Because you'll be lucky to be driving anything in twenty years, let alone a brand new EV or hydrogen powered vehicle.

Posted by Zakalwe, 12th January 2008 12:27am

I THINK IT IS TIME TO SLOW THE WORLD DOWN GO BACK TO HORSES

Posted by John Lamb, 12th January 2008 1:13am

Aside from the above poster's inability to use the caps lock key, I think that's one of the smartest posts yet.

Population control would be smarter still and a curbing of consumerism.

Posted by Zakalwe, 12th January 2008 1:15am

Regarding electric HGV's. TNT are buying enough electric trucks from Smith's electric vehicles to put them in every major European City. Specs below


The 9t Newton truck will operate in the same area, but making 15 to 20 stops per day. Powered by six batteries, it has a payload of 3,000kg; a top speed of 50mph and a range on one charge of up to 130 miles.


Clean delivery vehicles at last !

Posted by Chris Barron, 12th January 2008 1:30am

I drive a 2.2 l and currently get around 450 miles per tank. At a full tank price costing around £65.00 something needs to be done to bring the costs down. Electric power is not the way forward. We need more economical fuel for modern cars. All we would be doing by buying electric power cars is sending piles of smoke in to the atmosphere from the powerstations the would need to be built to cope with the power demand.

Posted by Ryan Jones, 12th January 2008 1:38am

EV's is one way forward in saving energy, however the energy used in making ANY vehicle leaves a HUGE Cabon Footprint. An efficient transport system is a brilliant, but that leaves us with the cost invovled in setting one up that works.
Wind Power is certainly one way to go for renewable energy which is what people want, but at the same time 'Everyone' (or nearly everyone) say;s "I don't want them on my landscape". So until the majority of peoples attitudes change - inclufing the Governments, what the heck do we do in the meantime?

Posted by Karl Cheshire, 12th January 2008 2:44am

Excellent article much appreciated read. Thanks.

Posted by Michael Clipsham, 12th January 2008 7:51am

I'll go electric traction power when the Army goes electric. (This will indicate solutions to the logistic problems.) The Left won't give up tax revenue. The Right won't give up energy profits. The Greens won't allow pylons, or hydro. The local council won't allow wind-turbines, or photovoltaic. It doesn't give the ordinary citizen(subject?) much room to pursue happiness or a low carbon footprint. After a millennia of interference, each individual group is working hard to carve out a niche in their neighbour's garden.

Posted by Russell Middleton, 12th January 2008 9:36am

I note that a full charge for an EV could be as little as 40p just how long does it take to fully charge an EV. Im sure its not the 3-4 minutes it takes to fill up a tank at the motorway service station.

Posted by David Brient, 12th January 2008 11:00am

I have been reading the comments made by other people and there are some very interesting points been made. However, I do agree with many people that 'THE GOVERNMENT', no matter which direction we go in, they WILL find a way to Tax us and we will be in the same position. I, for one who is using cooking oil for my megane scenic, works as good as diesel but that I have found the price of that going up too!

With fossil fuels running out and our global warming problem, IT IS time for change AND I'M ALL FOR IT!

Lets just hope that 'THE GOVERNMENT' will lay off the Taxes of Vehicles and road users!

Posted by Paul Holder-jones, 12th January 2008 11:38am

I would certainly consider an Electric car providing that they can produce a one big enough to transport my Electric Wheelchair. Whatever happened to the concept of the Hydrogen powered car though which if they can get the technology right will be much cheaper to run than Electric and just as clean.

Posted by Denis Shaw, 12th January 2008 11:48am

I've sent a note to lotus to ask about them why they don't sell the Tesla in this country. I'm sure if enough people ask they may consider it. I know it's silly money at present but if the demand is enough the price will come down.
Thanks
Andy

Posted by Andy, 12th January 2008 12:09pm

I cannot but become exasperated at all the hype attached to this fuel business. As a driver of some five decades, I reckon I have just about seen it all, from steam traction engines to two stroke engines to the latest diesel car engines. As I own the latter now, and also tow a rather large comfortable touring caravan, I am wondering what the Green mob are hoping that I will do with my caravan now? And, would there be an electric powered vehicle capable of towing a caravan weighing 1600 kgs?

Posted by Ernest Hartland, 12th January 2008 12:39pm

Nuclear is the future and electric goes with that.

Posted by Davidmoffat, 12th January 2008 12:55pm

Every Tom,Rickand Harriett is having a go here but there are some people who like me can recall seeing gas conversions being done on cars 45 years ago and large fleets of bread vans & milk floats powered by batteries in every town. Petrol companies probabily brought the patents to protect themselves at the time but how long do patent rights last. Come on you inventive BRITS lets show the rest of the world the way we used to. Penecillion Television Tarmac Iron Bridges JET Engines. Where has all the spirit of Vision & Enterprise gone. Look up old ideas Hydrogen,Water,Gas, etc;. If only I could get an idea!!!! hmmm hmmm hmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Evan Robinson, 12th January 2008 1:05pm

So many negative comments but some terrific technical observations.

Obviously electricity is the way to go, and in particular coupled with more advanced solar-powered technologies. The world is much bigger than us and those countries which have the most sun will obviously be the biggest users. As for the British Government, well, we get the Government which we allow to be elected!!! Sitting on your hands at election time is the surest way to get what we have now. Vote for change. Start grass roots movements in your own area. Don't wait for someone else to change for you.

I am a single parent with three growing children and need a large vehicle for all their friends plus camping gear and other paraphernalia, so have an old Previa 8 seater. I have recently converted her to LPG and now get an extra 75 to 85 miles extra per week for the same £25 (that is all I can afford!) I am very happy with LPG and can just ride out the jump in fuel costs.

When electric is cheap and viable I will get it. Till then LPG is just fine.

Cheer up and change. This Government would like us all to live at work and just let the ministers and lorries use the roads!!!

Posted by Jude Powell, 12th January 2008 1:11pm
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