Your Comments

Simple:

If a car is more efficient, then that should be the governing factor, not how old it is.

Pedantically speaking, whats the carbon footprint of having a six year old vehicle scrapped to buy a brand new vehicle, probably made overseas and imported, against the carbon footprint of using local skills to convert a treasured vehicle with some personal history and probably more style?

Politicians are being inconsistent as usual. Meanwhile there is all their muddled nonsense over classic cars, supposed to be over 25 years old, then changed to be before a fixed date, but either way can breathe out as much carbon as they want and pay no tax. They dabble in ignorance without showing any consistency!

I see petrol prices are going again,only by 1p a lt.but when you add up this is nearly 5p agall. When will it stop.

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So called "green vehicles" like the Toyota Prius or the new Hybrid Lexus may be a misnomer anyway - has anybody seen a 'total carbon footrpint' per mile calculation, that is to say a calculation that takes into account the amount of CO2 released in generating the electricity needed to power the batteries in these vehicles? Or whether the manufacturing emissions are the same or lower than other, higher volume models? Or the inclusion of environmentally harmful chemicals in the fuel cells?

It's easy to jump on a bandwagon and buy an "environmentally conscious" vehicle, but the only truly carbon neutral fuel is a 100% vegetable derived, since the only CO2 being re-released was bound up by the plants from the atmosphere in the first place. For that reason, dosing down diesel with SVO ought to be free of fuel duty, but there's _no way_ No 11 Downing Street is going to let that happen!!

I aren't straight
init
blud
;]

im only joking that was me really i aint straight

Of course anyone who has gone to the trouble and expense to convert to LPG should receive a reduction in road tax. This would fall in line the Governments policy to tax pollution. In the great scheme of things it's a small but admirable action for any individual to make.

Unfortunately the Government has no interest in reducing pollution they just appear to be introducing pollution related taxes to help reduce the appalling deficit this chancellor has created since coming into power. I might start to believe that any pollution tax was to benefit the environment when the government uses 100% of the road fund license to improve the roads.

Why should the general public be responsible and taxed when we have little or no option to travel in an environmentally friendly way. The onus should be on the manufactures to provide eco friendly vehicles and the government should have told the motor industry 20 years ago that they will only be able to sell eco friendly vehicles by say 2010. The pressure and costs are then spread equally across the motor industry and would encourage sharing of knowledge.

For example my uncle (If now alive would be over 90 years old) whilst a director for Rolls Royce Diesel Engine division designed the first LPG engines and the patent for this is personally in his name. With this Rolls Royce built and used LPG for their diesel engine trains but at that time the motor industry was approached as well as the government, to manufacturer LPG engines for cars, but no one was interested. So the opportunity was provided and the government on your behalf ignored this opportunity and now for their mistake taxes you!

I am fed up of paying through the nose for tax on virtually everything. When I was passing my test quite a few years ago, ROAD tax WAS for the roads, for repairs etc now it is for anything but. So what exactly are we paying Road Tax for now? the roads in this country are a disgrace.
People make mistakes and the motorists pay for it, ie: recent silicone in fuel fiasco, what happens? Fuel goes up, but if you look closely at all these things, they are VERY heavily taxed.
My diesel costs me between 89 - 100p litre (because the prices keep yoyo-ing) You take away the tax - it would cost around 30p litre! We already get taxed for driving on the roads, so why must we pay a "pay as you drive" tax? We already pay tax for the fuel we use!
We get taxed on our wages, then taxed again whilst it sits in the bank. Then the government on our behalf gives half of it abroad!!!
I am with Ian Grice on this one.
I have paid for my road tax, my car, my insurance, MOT and my fuel - which is also heavily taxed, I will drive where the hell I like!
We are the most heavily taxed country and some people STILL want to pay more!
And now all the do-gooders are on their soapboxes telling us to look after our planet? WHAT?? We are one of the only countries trying to do something and we are only a little island, what difference will we make? You need the whole world to take part for it to have an definate effect.
We are told to recycle this, recycle that, "go green" save our planet. I seriously don't think it will make an ounce of difference. We are getting milder winters, hotter summers, harsher storms, no amount of recycling and trying to save the planet will matter. Hows about this for a theory - this was supposed to happen it is just something called EVOLUTION.

The question is why should the person that has the less poluting car have to pay the same as the huge 4x4 in front of him and the sports car with the V8 3.5 litter behind him to drive along the same strech of pot holed crumbly road. Just so he can get to work.

Its not the retailer that sets the price its the oil company. The profit from fuel sales is minascule compared to shop sales.

Simon what world do you live in???

Nisan X trail

CO2 Emissions 203 g/km
Road Tax Band F

Nissan Primera Estate

CO2 Emissions 161 g/km
Road Tax Band D


Citroen C5 estate

CO2 Emissions 158 g/km
Road Tax Band D

Ford Mondeo estate

CO2 Emissions 153 g/km
Road Tax Band D

BMW 520d estate

CO2 Emissions 162 g/km
Road Tax Band D

VW Passat estate

CO2 Emissions 156 g/km
Road Tax Band D


Fiat Stilo multiwagon

CO2 Emissions 148 g/km
Road Tax Band C


Small 4x4s and diesel 4x4 or people carriers are not as efficent as a normal estate car and can never be because of the weight of them.

I've read quite a few of these blogs and no one seems to be mentioning diesel. I run a gas guzzling 4wd MPV on bio diesel - Total effect on global warming - 0 !!!! and that's better than a Prius.

But is there any benefit tax wise on its manufacture - of course not All this "we'll penalise you for not being green" is garbage. Its just another excuse for additional tax. If they were serious they'd give incentives for the prouction of really green fuel and use set aside land to grow it!!!

Another 2p rise to fuel prices in six months time, Thank You Very much, Gordon!

Like many other people who have made comment, I like you, choose to drive my "gas guzzling" (dual fuelled) 4x4 and have driven these vehicles for many, many years.

Why do both Gordon Brown and Tony Blair find it quite acceptable to go back on every promise they made to those people who took steps to convert their vehicles to LPG/Petrol, like small cars our cars have to undergo very strict MOT testing so why do we have to be made an example of?

Why do we have to be the butt of people sticking pretend parking tickets on our cars informing us as to what MPG we can expect, but furthermore if one takes time to look deeper into who allegedly is supporting this campaign it would appear it is Ken Livingstone and an eminent MP. It does give one food for thought.

Perhaps next time we see the enterage of vehicles arriving at Chequers or numbers 10 and 11 they will not be one of the full range of Range Rover's,
Audi S8's, Jaguars and the like. Then of course we have (albeit in the past)
John Prescott and his 2 Jag's. Do we pretend these cars really are a fleet of Mini's 1000, of course.

the true reason for increasing road tax on 4x4s is to help reap back some of the 250billion pounds spent on the unlawful invasion of Iraq

lpgs should be cheaper

As the owner of an LPG powered Bentley that is much cheaper more efficient than it was and comfortable I take great comfort in knowing that the poor people filling up their punto's etc are not doing much better than me on costs for much less comfort. Also as there has yet to be any firm proof of global warming other than an excuse to, Tax Tax, Tax. Maybe if we are to deal with global warming we should Tax farmers for the head of cattle they have as they produce massive amounts of methane that is proven to damage the environment. Or maybe tax Heinz baked Beans as they are proven to cause methane production.
There are currently as many scientists who believe that global warming is not a real phenomena and that we are currently suffering a natural climate change and though I accept that we need to reduce pollution we need to be sensible about this and recognise that global warming is just an excuse for taxation and provides a nice diversionary smoke screen to keep your mind off anything else that is going on that is Bad. Anyone notice there is a war on in Iraq.

i agree LPG converted vehicles should pay less car tax as they are less pollutant. There also shouldn't be an age limit, as most people cannot afford to buy a brand new vehicle then fork out again for the conversion; that's why we convert older cars in the first place. Also the coment by Ian Grice about LPG owners, why on aerth would i pay 90p a litre when I can pay 30p a litre on LPG instead?

CO2, CO2, Lots of talk about CO2 !
LPG has zero heavy metals, NOx levels half that of petrol and 60% less Ozone precursors too.
Go on, see the road based environmental pollution issue in perspective, CO2 is not directy toxic, all this other cocktail is directly injuring us and the biosphere, LPG still has a place if used wisely.

I was approaching the 'cars older than 5 years' issue. Most of the older cars 'out there' are not high efficiency leanburn low emissions machines. So in fact it is these very vehicles which may improve matters by LPG conversion. Newer cars I agree are so much more dsign efficient, that LPG becomes less relevent to their overall environmental impact. I drive a 5 year old LPG vehicle.

what is it with this country are we the only ones who want to be ripped off by this government telling us that globel warming is an issue (what a crock of sh+t) its going to happen no matter what

why should we be the ones to be ripped off for nothing

its about time we all say no enough is enough and not take this bull anymore

stop it all of you do you really think that by raising tax on vehicles will reduce the effect of warming

sorry no way

its just another way for us to be ripped off

and we all take it why ?

As stated earlier on this message board.............isn't LPG a byproduct of petrol/diesel production?
We LPG users really are Green, as we now recycle a by-product.
Shouldn't we therefore get extra Brownie points ..........?
Nah..........this government just see's us motorists as income generation PERIOD!

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Surely as we all use the roads we all pay the same? If you use it more you pay more duty on the fuel. If your car is less economical then again you pay more. Is this too simple?

If car tax/road fund is to maintain and build new roads then maybe vehicles could be taxed on weight - heavier ones would do more damage than lighter ones.

After all, linking any of the CO2 produced to the vague unproven theory of global warming via human orginated carbon as we know is nonsense design to control us and limit our freedoms. Might as well tax volcanos - they put out over 90% MORE CO2 than people each year. I guess politicians would tax them if they could!

I am in favour of lower taxes for cleaner cars, but them I would be, I drive Prius. There are many cars to choose from that fall into the lower road tax bands. So you dont have to drive a milk float. We need to adjust the we we look at cars and instead of choosing the biggest car we can afford look for the smallest car that will meet out needs.
Since there is some dispute over CO2 and global warming lets take a different approach. There is a finite amount of fosil fuels stored within the earth, we may not know exactly how much but it is 'finite'.
It wont all run out on one day but it will get harder and more costly to extract.
Biofuels may play a part but we could never produce enough fuel from crops to meet the worlds demand for oil and food at the same time. Do you want to drive more than you want to eat?

So are you going to continue using oil as fast as you can or would it be a good idea to try and use a litle bit less to make what we have last a little bit longer.

MarkTime

More doubters of Global Warming coming out of the woodwork because of the economic inconvenience of applying tax to pollution. I'm not saying this is necessarily the best way to tackle it but it's by no means grounds to doubt scientific fact.
Human induced Global Warming is a reality, the only question mark relates to the magnitude of the impact of climate change.

Why do anything about it when we have very little impact in global terms? It's about setting a precedence - As a developed nation we have global influence and can make a difference by influencing and impacting upon national policies in developing countries to adhere to our environmental values.

I do agree that it probably won't make any difference. Taxing the most polluting cars just £400 is a joke, if the Government were that serious they would tax them out of the market or just ban them.

Here we go again, everything's Gordon Brown's fault. Shall we forget the fact that Gordon Brown has scrapped the Fuel Duty Escalator? Both the Tories and the Lib Dems want to re-introduce the Fuel Duty Escalator!

Green taxes, as a percentage of government revenue, has fallen under this Labour government!

The Tories first introduced the Fuel Duty Escalator - they are your enemy, not Labour! The precise reason we have some of the highest fuel prices in the world is because of John Major's government!

Stop reading the right-wing tabloids!

The recent 2p/litre rise in Fuel Duty = 4.14%.

The Government claim inflation = 2.8%.

Same thing, different colour.

The Fuel Duty Escalator came in, on the back the famous Kyoto Treaty, and falling oil prices in 1994. It was seen as a way to control Co2 emissions, and was based on minimum increases, percentage wise.

The present Government abandoned it in 1999 (3 yrs after coming to power) when Oil prices began to rise, and realised they had no control over them.

Now you have a situation, where the "Green" agenda wants to turn the clock back. New Taxes and Charges will far exceed the escalator charge by far.

An example would be, yesterday Crude Oil in NW/Europe closed @ $69.22/Bbl, a taste of things to come, it's only just begun.

The proposed "Road Charge Scheme" will shock most motorists in the 2008 pilot plans in certain area's. It's all about raising revenue, in the name of Green. Many groups are calling for the return of the "escalator" as a fairer way of doing things. So round and round we go.

The Avg Cost of LPG is around 45p/litre.

Duty/Vat accounts for 11p/litre. Production Costs run at about 28p/litre.
Total 39p/litre.

Prices vary across the UK, you can buy it for 42p/litre on the East Coast, mainly because there are two plants in this area. There are only eight plants in the whole of the UK. Distance from plants, pushes the price up.

LPG in France is 10% higher than the UK.

However, it's still the cheapest way of motoring, and the cleanest at present time from fossil fuels.

Steven,

Your mpg on LPG seems low, remember the car is 7 yrs old.
It should be closer to 29 mpg with the Vectra, but "dual fuel" cars do get less.

With Diesel at 94.3p/litre, and mpg at 45 for the Vectra.
Even with LPG at 48p/litre, you'd still be ahead in the game.

Supermarket LPG averages 41p/litre.

Richard,

What you are experiencing are low tax rates, and high exchange rates.
Government Tax's on Petrol average 18%, and on Diesel 19.5%. UK's average 69% on Petrol, and 67% on Diesel.

On a litre per litre basis, minus all tax's, and the applicable exchange rate. Petrol in the UK is a little cheaper than the US, but UK Diesel is higher. This gives you an idea of the Tax burden in the UK.

Most State speeding ticket's in the US, carry on the spot fine's. If you don't have the cash, they take Visa. If you don't have either, the car stays were it is. It works just fine, and they have the manpower to enforce it.

Pick-up Truck's are a huge market in the US, the average engine is a 4.2 litre V8, and many have the 4x4 option, but most use 2 wheel drive. Average MPG on the Highway is 28 mpg, in town it drops to 20 mpg. Can you imagine this in the UK, and the running costs.

Their Interstate Road System, makes our Motorway System look mickey mouse at best. But it is a big country, and that's the difference.

Ok fuel prices are starting to get to high again, I say bring back the blockades and the protests. In the US if prices get to high people storm congress, what happens in the Uk, we all start writing to blogs like this.

just read about older vehicles still will receive rises. my dad owns a jeep 4X4 paid over 2 thousand pounds because he cares for the inviroment, now i have to tell a 55 year old new pensioner that he spent all that money for no reason at all . common sence and a bit of maths ........he could of got more then four years tax for that car with that money while still poluting the enviroment that we all SHOULD be caring about.
Now, ask the people , should the goverment care about people who really do care about the enviroment and get conversions careless of the year of the vehicle, or care about people who will BUY new / Newer vehicles that are already LPG vehicles , to pay less car Tax.

Like Ian said, if you chose to purchase a gas guzzling 4x4 then you have to live with the consequences.

Many green cars are surprisingly cheap. Take a look at the Vauxhall Corsa 1.3 diesel - a car that can reach over 64mpg if I remember correctly. If you need a larger car (i.e. an estate) then you could opt for Vauxhall Astra estate 1.7 diesel - which gets over 55mpg I think.

With the recent advances in diesel engines it's silly to buy petrol cars, in my opinion. For example, the Vauxhall Corsa 1.7 diesel gets 0.1mpg MORE than the Vauxhall Corsa 1.0 petrol - according to the Vauxhall website.

There's no excuse to be buying 4x4 SUVs now. Most rurals areas have adequate access to the road network.

As for the Labour haters - It was John Major's government that first introduced the Fuel Duty Escalator. New Labour have abandoned the Escalator, therefore saving YOU money. The Tories are promising to re-introduce the Fuel Duty Escalator if they gain power - which means an annual increase in fuel duty of 2% above inflation, if I remember correctly!

Stop reading the tabloids and look at the statistics for yourself!

By the way, I don't work or advertise on behalf of Vauxhall! ;)

Would you be interested in taking a position up with Vauxhall, Mathew? You seem to have ample knowledge of our brilliant collection of cars.

I would hardly call a diferance off 11mpg and 8g/km marginally more economical. think of the diferance that makes over 12 months. Thats why yours is group C and the diesal is group B the price diferance is to encourage people to go for the lower emision car, the increese in the price diferance gives a bit more incentive.