24.11.08 Fuel prices to rise as motorist hit with 2p duty increase

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11162 comments 50282 votes

Do you think the government should cut fuel tax instead of making motorists foot the bill for the credit crisis?


A permanent 2p duty increase in fuel tax has been introduced in the pre-budget report, which despite being presented as revenue neutral, will mean that fuel prices will rise over the next year and beyond.

The move to increase fuel duty by 2p has been introduced to offset the rate cut in VAT from 17.5% to 15%. However, although the VAT holiday will last 13 months, the 2p duty rise is permanent.

When VAT returns to 17.5% motorists will still be paying the higher rate fuel tax of 52.35p per litre and the higher rate VAT, making tax 74% of the total cost of a litre of fuel, and instantly boosting the cost of fuel by 2p a litre.

If the Chancellor had instead announced scrapping duty and VAT, a litre of petrol would cost just 25p.

The changes are designed to be neutral, but calculations by PetrolPrices.com show that there will be a slight increase at the pumps of 0.4p a litre, or 20p per average 50 litre tank of unleaded when the changes come into effect on December 1st. The fact that fuel prices will increase at all is contrary to the message from the Chancellor that the changes will be revenue neutral.

Motorists and businesses will effectively be bearing the brunt of the costs involved with implementing changes to help the UK as it heads into a recession.

Fuel is taxed twice – a fixed duty and percentage VAT. The changes mean that the fuel duty will be 52.35p per litre and VAT will be 15% from the 1st December.

Do you think the Chancellor did the right thing? Is it fair to make motorists foot the bill for the cost of reducing VAT? Should we have VAT on fuel at all?

Your Comments

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COMMENTS 71 TO 75 ARE SO REAL . why dont we do something about our moaning? we English sit back and pay these so called leaders to bankrupt the country. I would be willing to take time off and be there to demenstrate how we feel.
We need a leader of our own to get organised so we get off our laurels and put bodies were are mouths are.

Posted by Victoria Chadwick, 19th December 2008 8:37am

hay gordon why dont you cut the fat at the top! instead of the people who keep this country runnin? why dont you put your hand in your own pocket instead of ours! you need to learn not to bite the hand that feeds you,if you want this ressesion to end you need to cut taxes across the board not take sum off vat then put 2p on fuel thas just givin with 1 hand and takin away with the other your just bein greedy! you say theres no money left in the pot but theres plenty when theres a disaster in another country or to fund your
SECOND homes where most of us are stugglin to keep on get a first house! SORT IT OUT OR GRT OUT!!!!

Posted by Sf, 19th December 2008 9:31am

.
It seems the labour government will use global warming as an excuse to raise taxes.
Consider, they went after cars because they emit more Co2 into the atmosphere.
First by raising road tax depending on age and emissions. Most will pay more road tax due to owning an older car.
Most own an older car because they cannot afford a new one, resulting in almost double tax for poorer car owners.
Then they use the excuse of depleting oil supplies to raise petrol prices, again another tax.
When a barrel of oil was $149 we were paying the price.
Oil is now at the lowest for years and even allowing for inflation, the weak pound, and higher duty we are still paying the price.
The longer the fuel stays as high as possible the more the government make in stealth taxes.
Does anyone really believe the fuel suppliers are not controlled by government?
Now the general belief is there are too few refineries to supply the demand of diesel, hence, higher prices.
The sad reality is that politicians are thieves. They will lie.
Any issue, legitimate or not, is used by them to always justify an expansion of their powers and the revenue they take from the pockets of the public.
The basic rules seems to be: if they scare you to death, they can tax you to death.
Stealth tax was a term invented by Anne Robinson in 1996 to attack New Labour.
What should Labour call the hidden taxes that will be sneakily inserted by the Tories?
Its a merry-go-round in this country, moving tax from income to consumption is a cowardly way of generating funds to pay a deficit caused by this calamitous, inept ex-chancellor.


Posted by A Is For Andbrake, 19th December 2008 8:34pm

well $33.87 a barrel and 89p per ltr. WHY its a simple question

Posted by Peter Henderson, 20th December 2008 12:39am

Fuel Tax is just one of many taxes this Government looking to increase in the near future, Fuel tax,road tax and the various ways in which we are picked on as motorists, should be looked at more fairly all round
As a nation most of us travel by car to work some lucky , a few miles others a couple of hours , why can a method not be worked out to promote local workers to travel on local public transport , and on proven mileage the more you do the less you pay for your litre of fuel.
Cigarettes were the focus at one time but because of the financial impact on our National Health service the Government is spending £millions to stop people smoking, now they appear to be going down the same road with the "car drivers"don't they realise without our taxes we would be in a bigger mess today , we all need our cars use the vehicle taxes to improve our enjoyment of driving and not to put plugs in all of their other messes

Posted by Dennishoughton, 20th December 2008 10:36am

.
Gordon Brown has been told by oil producers he must cut fuel taxes before demanding they increase output to drive down prices.

A senior Opec figure branded the Prime Minister "confused" for urging the cartel to maintain production levels to control prices rather than reducing domestic duty.

At a major oil summit organised by Mr Brown, the PM warned that volatility in prices could cost the global economy trillions of dollars over the coming decades.

But Opec secretary-general Abdullah al Badri turned the tables on Mr Brown, criticising British tax policy.

Earlier this week, Opec cut another 2.2 million barrels per day from production in a bid to bolster falling prices.
(Sky news 20 Dec 2008)

Posted by Steve M, 20th December 2008 7:41pm

What has happened is a typical Labour trick associated with Gordon Brown. He berates the oil sheiks demanding that they cut the price of oil, but at the first opportunity whacks another 2 pence on the end user price. Typical!

Posted by John Cetti, 22nd December 2008 1:03pm

Until I read this, I didn't even know the government had added 2p onto fuel duty and I'm sure many other motorists didn't know either. It was not something widely publicised. It's disgusting. These people who make these taxes run around on fuel paid for us anyway. They're all a disgrace and should be ousted in the next election.

Posted by Jonathan Cowling, 22nd December 2008 5:00pm

I went Christmas shopping with my son. Its easy to see that money is tight with some stores very quiet but not for everyone. M&S were bustling! My son bought a box of chocs for his gran and we followed a well heeled lady through the checkout . She had a few Christmas delights from the food hall just a few treats ! Her bill £144 Many more were shopping in similar style. Nice to see that so many are doing so well . A little later at Poundland I watched as many less fortunate folks tried to spin out what little cash they had. When I got home I reflected on my day and concluded that we really do now live in a divided nation with a ever increasing stadard of living between the haves and the have nots. Merry Christmas!

Posted by Bogland, 22nd December 2008 7:46pm

HELLO fellow motorists, i have had posters in my car windows for four years now protesting abpout petrol prices but in all that time just one other motorist has made any comment.
the problem is we as a nation will not help ourselves by protesting as one
mighty force niether showing solidarity or interest but just wanting to shout from the sidelines leaving the few to do the dirty buisiness for the rest.
i am dissabled and do very limited driving now but still know when i am being ripped of , not just by the government but also by the megga rich
oil companys and the oil producing nations in the middle east who by robbing us as now buying the uk out (with our money) in the first place.
as much as i dont care much for the french i do admire them as when they think they are being ripped of by their own government or anyone else
they just stop the job totaly and then everything stops until they get what they are fighting for but in the uk when many of the protesters are told to move on they usualy back down and when this happens all is lost, its just a matter of time when the country just fold up and if i were a young man i would get off a sinking ship but at my age i will have to go down with it.
peter.

Posted by W.p. Broadhead, 23rd December 2008 8:32pm

I would like to wish all a very merry Christmas and a happy new year.

An extract from todays Sun newspaper:-

HAVANT Hants,
"Vast oil reserves worth millions of pounds are believed to lie beneath one of Britains biggest housing estates".

Any bets that a British company won't exploit this and some foreign company
will clean up big time and sell our own oil back to us.
Or has Gordon Brown already sold it off without us knowing to extend the V.A.T reduction beyond the end of December 2009.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 24th December 2008 3:52pm

change the government!

Posted by Angela Ewen, 24th December 2008 10:25pm

In answer to W P Broadhead (11051), the minute anyone protests in this country, they are arrested under the Anti-Terrorist Act and treated like one. This has been engineered by this government in conjunction with the police, who have become more Stasi every day.

Everyone knows why the truckers stopped protesting. First, they were bribed with discounts off their tax discs, and second, they were threatened with incarceration and confiscation of their rigs if they did. Only in Communist Russia and Burma is this tolerated. Guess what the French would do?

Lets face it, the country is broke, and any money we do have is given to others overseas, so this lousy bunch must persecute the motorist at every opportunity. If you think 2p on a litre is the last tax rise, you need your bumps felt!

Posted by S Granger, 28th December 2008 11:46pm

Well, we got what we voted for didn't we???? If you vote Labour this is what you get, tax spend and borrow borrow borrow ........ Well, they have been in 3 times now and are really showing what they are made of - cant hide it anymore the TRUE LABOUR FASCISTS ARE OUT are they not?

All we can do now is GET THEM OUT and KEEP THEM OUT before they bury us completely, they've given away ALL OUT ASSETS, ALL OUT UTILITIES, ALL OUR GOLD AND RESERVES suppose we have very little left to support or even defend ourselves do we? COME ON YOU BRITS get out there and tell 'em what you really think!

Posted by Christina Grist, 29th December 2008 11:26am

Can you please explain why Comment 5101 on your blog,

'Why has the party that claimed it would sort out transport done absolutely nothing to help our situation. Regardless of the loss of jobs they should have done more to get freight back on to the railways and canals that once served this country very well. They should also consider restricting foriegn lorries from using our roads as though the UK was an extension of France. The goods should be terminated at Dover and the UK transport should deliver them to their destination. Why don't they consider more freight movement in the night as they do in other European countries and stop all movements at the weekend. It is also about time the lorries had more lane restrictions and gap restrictions to stop this constant bunching of them and from preventing safer lane movements for cars. I think that lorries should have to leave at least 200 metres between each other to create more space for cars to move into, which if we had better lane training for new drivers this should cut out a lot of the middle lane cruisers that cause so much aggravation. More lane discipline for lorries should be introduced as we build wider carriageways, the lorries move further outwards thus leaving the car drivers with only the fast lane for manoeuvring in.
As for petrol increases, yet again we see this is the party of total incompetence at handling any form of monetary system. They were the ones who ditched the gold reserves just before the price of gold shot up. How can any one trust such imbeciles that are only interested in feathering their own nests and leaving middle England to collect the cost yet again. Those on the "benefits" system are laughing as they just get every thing paid for them.

Posted by Gordon Mackley, 25th November 2008 12:55pm'

Is ascribed to me. There are very few people with the same name (and even fewer appearing on web pages) so it would seem unlikley to be someone else with this name and this is certainly not a comment I sent to you nor indeed ever would (as it does not reflect my views).

I should be obliged if you would remove this comment as soon as possible.


Gordon Mackley 29/12/08

Posted by Gordon Mackley, 29th December 2008 2:48pm

Agree with post no. 10376 from Ata Shakib (surely not the same one I went to school with?). The LibDems have a pretty good record in local government, and (even though he didn't stand a chance of unseating the NuLab candidate where I live), I couldn't help voting for them last time round, as the only party who voted against a war for oil.

Posted by Jon Axford, 29th December 2008 2:48pm

Re. comment 11056

Sorry Gordon, it was me, I find my real name too embarassing so I use Gordon Mackley. I can understand your annoyance, a bogus "Tarquin" has been posting elsewhere on the blog.

Posted by Tarquin Elephantitisofthegroin, 29th December 2008 6:32pm

The usual pro tory sun reading clap trap. Its the rich and wealthy bankers protected by the wealthy in the tory and Labour parties who are responsible for this mess. Everyone else has to suffer while the indecently rich few live off the fat of the land. Listening to a debate on the radio today it seems the latest idea from the right is to scrap the minimum wage. The guy on the radio said people will work for anything if they are hungry. These wealthy people are determined to live like parasites off the poorest in society who they want reduced to a subservient slave class .

Posted by Bogland, 29th December 2008 6:44pm

RE 11059 Bogland.

I also listened to parts of the debate on the radio today.
I found it alarming that some were even suggesting a scrapping of the minimum wage structure.
There are already calls for a policing of illegal cash in hand payments targeting the easy ones first, pubs, hairdressers and butchers lads.
Just imagine the chaos if the minimum wage were removed.
I am well aware people will pay cash for competent work to save money (most working class do this) but a complete removal will send us on a slippery slope of more cash work, leading to less self certifications and so less taxes being paid.
Some small business owners were complaining of workers being entitled to four more days holiday a year as well as a wage rise from April 2009.
People will not work for less even if they are hungry. There will be a massive rise in benefit claims.
We need a modern day Robin Hood to install some real hope.
We will not find him in either the Tories or New Labour camps, so where do we go next?

RE 11506 (5101) Gordon Mackley or not Gordon Mackley,

I found lots of blogs (by Gordon Mackley) by typing your name into google.

Most of 5101 makes sense although many on the benefit system would rather be at work and only a few actually laugh all the way to the bank.


Posted by Steve M, 29th December 2008 8:00pm

well here is a big blow for you.

the gov has sent a memo to all mod supply sections saying that public fuel prices are to increas ove rthe next year by 30 pence.

the price increase will start from Jan 2009 incromental.

so the prices will go up. 2012 is the big day for the gov with the mod largest growth since 1940.

Posted by Steven, 29th December 2008 10:36pm

The proposed tax increase on petrol is disgraceful. It affects everybody either directly or indirectly. People can choose to reduce petrol consumption for leisure purposes, but still have to fund their commute to work. We are all affected by the increase in fuel tax as it is passedon to us by delivery services and logistics companies who provide everyday goods and services to the public.

Posted by Tonia Johansen, 30th December 2008 4:39pm

The way petrol/diesel prices are dropping at the moment do any of you think for 1 moment that Alistair Darling WON'T increase fuel duty in March's budget?
Then you'd better think again because he WILL raise it then, and in the pre-budget report later in the year.
It does no good complaining about it here or on the new blog that will be created just after the 2009 Budget!

Posted by Steve N,, 30th December 2008 6:01pm

Comment on 11037.
Regarding bad bank managers they should do as they did in Glasgow in 1878.
The City of Glasgow Bank collapsed, small firms and investors made bankrupt with a serious effect on the City. the bank manager and his directors were arrested and confined to prison. The manager were given 18 month and the directors 8 month. Far cry from the mollycuddling of the banks these days.

Posted by Bill Hansen, 30th December 2008 8:16pm

I have noticed that the comments are getting fewer and fewer. Is this because the price of fuel has dropped over recent weeks, and we are all currently paying under a pound per litre.BEWARE by April next year the governemnt will be hell bent on pushing up the price again.

As I stated in my previous comments there are 32 million registered vehicle owners in the country, one letter from each of us to our local M.P telling him that if he values his /her seat at the next election they had better be committed to keeping the price of fuel at a sensible level.No of course I know it wont happen, because this governement have moulded us into a gutless society, now no longer willing to stand up for our rights.

As for the pro New Labour contributors to this site please have the guts to put your name to your comments not just. i. e Londoner etc

Posted by Peter J Orchard, 3rd January 2009 11:42am

Just a quick comment,

I'm a Brit living in The Netherlands, just been over to UK for a Chrimbo visit to my family.

Thanks to the fiscal mismanagement of Messrs Brown and Darling the pound is now almost 1 for 1 with the euro. Making UK a very reasonably priced place for me to shop (not gloating here just stating a fact).

A few months ago one euro bought 70p today it buys 98p

An anomaly of this pound versus the euro fiasco is that UK fuel is actually a tad cheaper than here at the moment.

Are there any pro New Labour people left in the UK ????

Posted by Chris, 3rd January 2009 10:42pm

Its all a con who benefits no one but the govement as usual! They should be reducing fuel tax not increasing it

Posted by Craig, 4th January 2009 6:40pm

It is interesting to note that prior to Duty/Vat. Petrol is cheaper in the UK than the US. Petrol 22.52p/litre UK- US = 24.86p/litre.

Of the Avg Retail Pump Price of 86.10p/litre. A huge 73.84% of the price is Duty/Vat. In the States the tax equals 18.6% of the pump price.

Somewhere, somebody is making a pile of cash. Guess who.

Posted by Learjet, 6th January 2009 11:55am

interesting to note that price per barrell is dropping, yet my local texaco and murco garages have increased the cost of petrol and diesel, 87.9p for unleaded and 99.9 for diesel. someone is making money here, prices have risen 3p per litre in the last week.

Posted by Richard, 7th January 2009 3:00pm

Steve Clarke, general manager of The Fuelcard People, has revealed how little interest the government takes in Britain's road transport industry. During November, he wrote to five government ministers with transport responsibilities, including the prime minister, asking them to loosen the fuel tax noose around the neck of Britain's road transport industry. None of them has replied to his letter.



"Knowing that the government is rather busy with the economic crisis, I expected to receive merely a handful of routine acknowledgements," he said. "Even that was being optimistic. I wrote to Gordon Brown, Geoff Hoon, Lord Adonis, Paul Clark and Jim Fitzpatrick. Three weeks later, I am still waiting for a reply from any of them. Meanwhile, the government has found time to implement yet another increase in fuel tax, which was already amongst the highest in the world."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve Clarke, general manager of The Fuelcard People, has written to five government ministers with transport responsibilities, including the prime minister, asking them to loosen the fuel tax noose around the neck of Britain's road transport industry.
"It seems that the government either does not understand the strategic importance of road transport," he said, "or that it does not care. It is time for the prime minister to realise, and to explain to his colleagues, just how much every aspect of our lives involves road transport. The bacon and eggs he tucked into this morning were brought to him by road, as was his breakfast tea and the milk he put in it. If he listens to the news while he shaves, he uses a radio and a razor that would still be sitting on factory shelves without road transport. When he dresses for another hard day in the office, everything he puts on will have had to travel by truck at some point."




He added that if he received a reply from any of the ministers, it would involve a computer, paper, an envelope and a pen — all of which will only be available to use because of road transport.

Steve Clarke pointed out that, whatever ministers might say, the facts are unavoidable:

• fuel costs account for 40% of road transport running costs

• diesel and petrol are subject to both fuel tax and VAT

• more than half of the pump price for fuel represents taxation

• UK fuel tax is more than double the EU average

"Mr. Brown and his colleagues will not want to reduce the tens of billions of pounds in fuel taxes they take each year, so I do not really expect any action that will help our industry," said Steve Clarke. "Meanwhile, hauliers from mainland Europe are filling up cheaply before coming through the tunnel to undercut our own firms, steadily killing off British jobs. My letter included a picture of a fuel line knotted into a noose, to underline the point. I will let everyone know how the ministers reply, if at all."

Posted by Steve Clarke, 7th January 2009 3:39pm



For more than a century it has been cheaper than coffee and as constant as ocean waves.

Getting it is simple. You select the grade, insert the nozzle, squeeze the handle and gasoline comes out. There seems no end to it.

Until now.

On top of the other problems plaguing the world, such as global warming and the current financial meltdown, there's a third pressing issue that threatens to bring the good life to an end: The world is fast running out of oil.

Given that crude oil makes up 36.4 per cent of the world's energy consumption, the seriousness of shortages cannot be underplayed. Our reliance on oil is almost total. It fuels 100 per cent of air and sea transport and most of our land transport. Without oil there is no petrochemical industry.

Agriculture, manufacturing, building materials, the clothes we wear, the food we eat and the medicines we take depend on oil.

Running out of oil is a question of when - not if.

Normand Mousseau, a physics professor at Universite de Montreal who has written a book on the end of oil, says the beginning of the end struck last summer. "This is why the prices jumped to $147 a barrel," he said. "As soon as the economy comes back, they will be right back up."

However, others say the crunch will come in three to 10 years depending on our rate of consumption.

"I hate being an alarmist about it, but our entire lifestyle is dependent on cheap oil and there just isn't very much left in the ground," Andrew Miall, professor of geology at the University of Toronto, said in an interview.

Most petroleum geology experts contend that we have already discovered the world's giant fields and what's left over will not keep the age of oil alive much longer.

"It's safe to say we have pinpricked the Earth thoroughly enough that it is very unlikely we have missed any Middle Easts," Miall said. "There may be another North Sea or two, but nothing that is going to really change the energy scene."

Matt Simmons, chairman and CEO of Simmons and Company International, which is a private energy investment banker based in Texas, said he believes the world's oil reserves have already peaked and we are on the downward slide.

"I think basically we are now in the early days of a very serious pending scarcity of oil and natural gas," he said. "Because we don't know we are, we are not putting any clamps on demand."

Simmons has been studying world oil production and reserves for decades. His company helps finance exploration and production.

He predicted - accurately as it turned out - that the North Sea fields would peak between 1998 and 2000.

Now he has turned his attention to Mexico, Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, warning that their fields also have hit the downward slide.

"All the major oilfields of the world have peaked and we are going to see soon some precipitous collapses," he said.

Because production flows can still keep pace with demand, the price has remained deceptively low, giving the impression there's still lots of oil out there. Even at its record high of $147 a barrel, crude oil was still only 22 cents a cup, which is a fraction of the cost of a regular coffee.

Simmons called the price of oil absurdly low: "Let's say you and five fat friends run out of gas and you see a guy coming down the street riding a donkey and pulling an old messy cart and you say, 'Hey pull over here. Can you take me and my five fat friends a couple of miles for 22 cents,' which is what that much gas will get you. And the guy's going to flip you the bird: 'Are you stupid?'"

Our recent consumption rates are the most voracious in history. By the end of 2007, the world had consumed about 1.1 trillion barrels of oil. Half of this was consumed over the last 25 years alone. So far, we have consumed about 50 per cent of the total recoverable oil, according to the World Energy Council.

Chris Skrebowski, a London-based member of the Energy Institute in Britain and consultant editor of the Petroleum Review, which is considered the oil industry bible, said he believes world oil reserves will peak "no later than 2012."

He paints a doomsday scenario of a world blithely unaware that in a few years its oil-based lifestyle will begin to end.

"Peak oil is when delivery flows can't meet the demand," Skrebowski said. Demand will outstrip production primarily because of a lack of sufficient reserves. Once that happens, we are on an unbroken downward slide.

For Skrebowski, signs of the approaching peak are clear. High oil prices as well as the enormous price fluctuations we're seeing are ultimately the result of emerging bidding wars over oil by oil-deficit countries.

Despite dwindling reserves, demand for oil is expected to continue to rise in China, India and other Asian countries. This will only hasten the moment of peak oil.

And new important discoveries are doubtful.

Canada's conventional oil production peaked in about 1995. U.S. production peaked in the 1970s. North Sea wells peaked in 2000. Mexico peaked in 1997 and Venezuelan production is peaking.

In all, Skrebowski said, about 28 significant producers are in decline. This represents about 35 per cent of global production. Once that figure reaches 51 per cent, "we reach global peak oil," he said.

The only place where production continues to hold up is in the Persian Gulf.

But the elephant wells of Saudi Arabia are showing signs of exhaustion and the Saudis are indicating that they want to begin preserving their oil for their children.

Yet politicians have not addressed the issue.

"They are terrified of it," Skrebowski said. "They don't know what to do. There are no pat solutions."

Posted by Peak Oil, 12th January 2009 8:39pm

fuel prices are so RIDICULOUS, why not increase other things, but no fuel, cigarettes and alcohol are always the first!!! why not mc donalds for once!!!!!!! theyd earn more that way!

Posted by Wil Tipper, 12th January 2009 10:45pm

first of all i think its wrong that we have to suffer just because our goverment (the ones who are MENT to run the country) cant handle money propley, i been driving a car for about 6 months now and im finding it hard, even though i enjoy driving its getting greatly unenjoying due to the tax and petrol prices, i might have to sell my car when my insurence runs out for a bike even if its more dangerous seen as i had one before its my only option :(

Posted by Kingsley Clay, 13th January 2009 10:31am

For quite some time 'Peak Oil' has been posting and telling us of the impending oil crises.
He has been telling us how we should be prepared for a life without oil.
He has been saying we should all use less oil etc etc etc
Mr Peak Oil, can you post a reply telling us how you have reduced your personal usage of oil?
I do not mean a pasted reply but an honest one.
Tell us how you have replaced all your light bulbs for energy efficient types.
Explain how you wore several layers of clothing instead of using the central heating during the recent cold snap.
Or how you walk to the shop and carry the biodegradable bags of groceries home.
I really do not expect a personal reply, just more of your 'copy-paste'.
Even in a world of oil depletion, some things are assured, death, tax and Peak Oil's copy-pasting.

Posted by Steve M, 15th January 2009 3:30pm

We all love to have a pop at Peak Oil .......... at first I used to scoff at his scare mongering, choosing to join in with the complaints about this USELESS GOVERNMENT of ours ................. especially Brown and that arogant PR**K Darling, and about the motorists being ripped off to finance their extravagant spending sprees.

I have vented my spleen several times on this blog about New (USELESS) Labour (aka CLOSET COMMIES) and how I wish David Cameron could get elected and given a chance to put this country right, and I stand by every word I have written.

Now I am really beginning to sit up, read and think about what this guy Peak Oil has to say. This last post wasn't the same old weekly copy and paste, this guy has information that the general public (US) need to absorb and meditate on.

I'm beginning to think "Is this car journey really necessary, can I achieve more in one vehicle journey rather than make three" (PLAN AHEAD)

Basically how can I use less fuel.

Peal Oil quite rightly draws our attention to the FACT that our entire economic structure is geared to Fossil Fuels.

When these fuels finally run out (and they will) there will be another Global Economic Collapse that will make this current recession (with all the current gloom that it is bringing), look like a mere inconvenience !!!!!!!

I DO believe we MUST find viable, productive, reliable, alternative energy sources, to become less reliant on oil (and far quicker than we are presently proceeding), because as and when the crunch comes, if we're not prepared for it......

MANKIND IS IN THE SH*T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Chris, 16th January 2009 8:29am

RE 11075

Totally with you 100%
Mankind is already in the $hit, we just don't know it yet.
Peak oil is right in his postings and even if he is repetitive there is an underlying message.
Post 11074 is asking the question, do you practise what you preach. No harm in that.
As I have said before I do not believe the Labourites are the way forward anymore than the Tories. Perhaps a totally 'new' government could be the way forward.
Whoever is next to manage this sorry politically correct, immigrant run island will have their work cut out. The manifesto's will have to show less reliance on oil based products and a hard line stance on all things British to win my vote.

Posted by A Is For Andbrake, 16th January 2009 1:03pm



To learn more about Peak Oil, watch the following video:

tinyurl.com/9p3tkz

Posted by Peak Oil, 18th January 2009 8:04am

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

test

Posted by C, 18th January 2009 3:15pm

There is something odd going on here, the last post "test" was submitted by me !!!!!!

I have submitted two posts in the last 20 minutes quoting a particular website that deals with the decline in World Oil Production .

BOTH HAVE FAILED TO APPEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is this censorship or is "Big Brother" watching me

Posted by Chris, 18th January 2009 3:18pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

11079
Big brother is watching us all my friend.
Peak Oil IS the establishment.
You've been warned.

Posted by G.orwell, 18th January 2009 8:00pm

.
NEW DELHI, Jan 14 (Reuters) - The steep fall in oil prices in recent months does not reflect market fundamentals but will help economic recovery, Saudi Oil Minister Ali al-Naimi said on Wednesday.

"The price of oil ... has declined in recent months by more than 70 percent since reaching their highest level in July -- a drop that will play a major role in aiding economic recovery," he told the Petrotech conference in New Delhi.

Crude oil has fallen steeply since it soared to a record above $147 in July and was trading at about $39 on Wednesday as OPEC kept up talk of production cuts.

Did I read that bit correctly ??
"The price of oil ... has declined in recent months by more than 70 percent"

Why has the petrol/diesel not dropped at the same rate ?

Any takers ??

Posted by Steve M , 18th January 2009 9:38pm

"The steep fall in oil prices in recent months does not reflect market fundamentals"

I believe (having clued up a bit on this Peak Oil subject) that this low price we see at the moment is artificial.

Speculators and high demand (especially from the 3rd world) created the extreme prices we saw six months back, but watch the birdie 'cos it's going to climb again. The world's Oil supply is in decline !!!!!!!!

Google this (Life after the Oil Crash)

Posted by Chris, 19th January 2009 6:01am

I've recently noticed that the cost of fuel is starting to increase again. Last week i filled up at petrol 81.9p/l and now its gone to 83.9p/l. It;s the same with Diesel, which has also increased 2 - 3 p/l.

I don't understand why the price of fuel is starting to increase again. The price of a barrel of crude oil is really low now.

Posted by Im, 19th January 2009 6:34pm

Why should we put up with been told what we can and can't drive? This "Green" bull is really starting to get on my nerves. I have a P reg 2.0 Astra, I can't afford my own house, so therefore I live with my parents at the age of 25! I work 45hrs a week and this is all I can afford. I enjoy my cars and driving, I wanted to upgrade to a 1.8 T Audi A3, but I'm not because I'm not going to pay the £400 a year road tax thats been forcast! I will never drive a small euro box, why should I? Green, my a##e! The Government should not be allowed to mess about with fuel duty, it is a direct link to inflation and should be a se figure. In other countries this would cause a riot!!!

Posted by James White, 19th January 2009 6:45pm

Any ideas as to why the price of diesel has started to creep up over the last few days?

Posted by Derek Frost, 19th January 2009 11:06pm

Messrs Brown and Darling again,

Their weak minded short term fiscal policies to avoid recession are actualy making matters worse.

Posted by Chris, 20th January 2009 6:09am

What people fail to grasp is that a rise in tax means more for the country's coffers. Readers of the red tops seem to believe that the cash actually goes into Mr Darling's bank a/c - it doesn't. Now, the oil companies profiteering from oil at less than $40 a barrel yet still charging £1 a litre is the thing we should all be protesting about. Watch the supermarket profits soar too.

Posted by Dave Edwards, 20th January 2009 10:11am

What most people are objecting to is the AMOUNT of tax on fuel, they even charge VAT on the VAT (what kind of a rip off is that).

The price of fuel has dropped by about 35p per litre in recent months, that's from the Oil Companies not Messrs Brown and Darling.

Posted by Chris, 20th January 2009 5:21pm

Chris 11088

Are you the same Chris as 11075/79/82/86.
if so and this is an observation NOT a criticism.
You seemed to lend some support to the Peak Oil theory initially
yet in other comments you've gone more towards agreeing that it's all one big rip off (as I do).
There are good reasons to subscribe to the "peak oil" beliefs but there are
good reasons to doubt their interpretative understanding of the politics of global oil supply & demand.
You've not entered into an easy to understand set of beliefs, and you will no doubt change your way of thinking several more times yet.

Posted by Richard.r, 20th January 2009 5:51pm

Here in cardiff where i live despite the relative simplicity of being able to use all this so called environmentally friendly public transport for commuting to and from work,where i am based it is completely impractical and would cost me even more per week than it currently does to use my car.
Whilst returning home i noticed that my local(ish) tesco's had unleaded at 83.9 per litre and diesel at 96.9 per litre barely 2 hours later when i was in need of some shopping and fuel, i was incensed to find the price had been increased 2p per litre!! The amount of duty we the motorist pay for fuel is absolutely ABSURD! It almost makes me feel like walking to work and back but when i happen to live over ten miles from my place of work i would have to leave my home at 5am to get there........ I THINK NOT. The government have not got a clue what they are doing when it comes to running the country, think it is time for a change as long as it ain't the tories, i would sooner hang myself than vote for them. Think Britain needs to stand up and say to the government enough is enough with regards the fuel duty hikes.

Posted by Gareth Jones, 20th January 2009 6:01pm



MESSAGE FROM AMERICA

Pop: Well, I filled the gas tank this morning, Mom, and it looks like the price is edging up just a bit each week, and I hear rumblings from the State House that our reps are considering a new tax on gasoline. Before we know it, the cost will be $ 4 again... or higher. It certainly is discouraging: in the summer, the price goes up because people are expected to travel more, in the winter it goes up because they have not produced enough, someone sneezes, and it goes up again.
Put the kettle on, Mom, I'm going to indulge in some of these plain doughnuts I bought. I figure it'll take three to calm me down - I hope you will support me.

Mom: I most certainly will support you, my dear, I just hope that your legs will be able to support you as you constantly overindulge. Sorry to be so blunt, Pop, but I'm just looking out for your health. Okay, you'll walk around the neighborhood three times... indulge.
I have been reading the article that Eb dropped off about the concern that the future production of oil will not keep up with the ever-growing demand; indeed, concern is that oil supply in the world may have peaked or will in the near future.
A Saudi oil geologist named Sadad I. Al Husseini who was head of exploration and production for the state-owned oil company, Saudi Aramco, discovered in the year 2000 that output would be leveling as early as 2004 - that upbeat forecasts for future production were wrong.
He had long been skeptical of the oil industry's upbeat forecasts, and in the mid-1990s he began studying data from the 250 or so major oil fields that produce most of the world's oil. He calculated how much crude remained in each field and how rapidly it was being depleted. Then he added all the new fields the company hoped to bring on line in the coming decades.
Once he tallied the numbers, he realized that where mainstream forecasts showed output rising steadily each year in a great upward curve that kept up with global demand, output was actually leveling off. Also, he calculated that the production level would last 15 years at best. Then the output of conventional oil would begin a gradual, but irreversible decline.

Pop: Wow. That's scary! Saudi Aramco sits atop the world's largest proven oil reserves - some 260 billion barrels, roughly a fifth of the world's crude - and routinely claims that oil will remain plentiful for many more decades.
Saudi oil minister, Ali, al-Naimi, took a dim view of Husseini's report, and Husseini retired in 2004 to become an industry consultant. However, if Husseini is correct, a dramatic shift lies just ahead for the world whose critical systems - defense to transportation to food production - all run on oil.
Husseini isn't the first to predict a peak in global oil output. Oil geologists have theorized for decades that when half of the world's endowment has been extracted, it will become increasingly more difficult to get more out of the ground, and eventually impossible. Global output has risen steadily from fewer than a million barrels a day in 1900 to around 85 million barrels today. A post-oil future could cause recession and even war as big importers jockey for access.

Mom: Forecasts of peak oil remain highly controversial because no one knows for certain how much oil remains under the ground. People such as Hussseini contend that the peak is imminent or has already arrived.
Optimists insist that the peak is decades away because the world has so much oil that has not been tapped or even discovered. Also, there are huge reserves of unconventional sources of oil like the tar-sand deposits in western Canada.
Interestingly, global output has remained around 85 million barrels a day, just where Husseini's calculations suggest output leveling off.
The International Energy Agency released a forecast in the fall of 2008 that by 2030, 116 million barrels a day will be needed. Some oil executives have voiced doubts that production will ever be able to keep up with demand. Christophe de Margerie, head of French oil giant Total, has declared that maximum output will only be realistic at 100 million barrels. Royal Dutch Shell's CEO, Jeroen van der Veer, has estimated that after 2015, supplies of easy-to-access oil and gas will no longer keep up with demand.

Pop: Despite the dazzling technological advances, including computer-assisted seismic imaging that allows companies to 'see' oil deep below the surface of the earth, the decline persists because the big, easily located fields - 'elephants' - were discovered decades ago, and the remaining fields tend to be small. They are harder to find and more are needed to approach the output of an elephant.
Smaller fields are also more costly to operate because so many oilrigs are needed to get at them. There are many, many small fields, but the cost disparity is the reason the industry relies on the larger fields which supply more than a third of our daily output. Unfortunately, because the large fields were discovered decades ago, they are in decline.

Mom: The situation is direr than most people realize. As global oil demand continues to grow with emerging societies such as China and India, the deficit will widen. According to James Mulva, CEO of ConocoPhillips, by 2010, nearly 40% of the world's daily output will have to come from fields that have not been discovered, and by 2030, nearly all our oil will come from fields not currently in operation. Also, Mulva predicted that output would stall at 100 million barrels a day - same figure of Total's CEO.
Simple math indicates that if the world needs 116 million barrels a day, and the industry can only supply 100 million barrels per day - the world is facing a huge problem... and 2010 is just around the corner!

Posted by Peak Oil, 20th January 2009 8:06pm

11091 Peak Oil.
As you know from this and other blogs I am quick to put you down, and
I may not agree/accept what you say for the right or wrong reasons and you are big and I hope broad shouldered enough to take any criticism thrown at
you; but, I must say that your latest offering is much more amenable than
normal and I offer genuine praise and respect (though I am a nobody) for
the new way you've offered your side of the debate.
On this occasion I enjoyed your posting very much. Maybe a different approach will work wonders for your cause.
You might well be proven right and we might never be anything other than adversaries, but credit where it's due and it's due to you this time. Thank you.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 20th January 2009 8:55pm

@11079 - "Is this censorship or is "Big Brother" watching me "

No Chris, you probably had some URLs in your posts - any post with URLs don't get posted (I hope that makes sense).

Posted by Bandidoz, 20th January 2009 10:32pm

Has anyone noticed that fuel prices are now creeping up again, (3p per litre in the last 7 days), yet nobody seems to be making a fuss, bet they will when it tops £1 per litre again

Posted by Micartell, 21st January 2009 8:22am

any idea why petrol has gone up 3 ppl around here?

Posted by John, 21st January 2009 3:33pm

11089 Richard, yes I am the same Chris,

Maybe I can clarify my position, having originally scoffed at Peal Oil's posts, I took the time to read his last post (extremely well written) and I viewed the video he posted.

Then I spent several hours looking at other topics on the same subject. I came to the conclusion that what Peak Oil is saying about the demise of Cheap Oil is absolutely "On the Ball"

World oil production is in decline and it will get progressively more expensive, it's currently artificially low to encourage us to get out and spend more ....... (business as usual)

The rest of my rantings are about this USELESS UK government, and every word I have written I stand by whether people choose to agree or not.

New Labour are nothing but a gang of theives and liars, hell bent on holding onto power until the last moment ............... the sad thing is the next government will get "pilloried" for trying to sort out the mess.



Posted by Chris, 21st January 2009 5:14pm

Answer to 11095

1) The Russians and the gas situation

2) The £1 is now worth $1.36

Oil is traded in dollars, so the weaker the £ gets to the $ then the more it costs to buy

Cost of petrol (Including the governments 73% duty and VAT) will cross the 90pence barrier in the next week

Posted by Steve The Poor Garage Owner, 21st January 2009 5:20pm

On the subject of peak oil, has anyone noticed food prices creeping up at the supermarkets?
Pump prices are there for all to see, three feet high figures on a large board.
Dairy products seem to be rising the most. closely followed by vegetables. All food products will soon start to climb.
Whilst keeping yourself in employment will require more luck than experience.

A lot of emphasis is being placed on finding more oil to be extracted, when in fact we need to reduce our reliance and prepare for a different lifestyle.
If you are middle-aged you will still be around to see the full impact of no oil.

The richest countries buying as much oil as possible to keep a lifestyle that is really beyond any-one's means. Countries with oil refusing to sell because they need it for themselves. The richest countries will start attacking oil producing states. All out war for oil.
USA and the UK have already proved this with the 2003 attacks on Iraq to secure a future supply of Middle Eastern oil.

Try to imagine what it would be like, a vast reduction in readily available oil.
Far higher fuel costs for transport, farmers, deliveries, policing, the whole fabric of modern society.
As money becomes thinner for governments and the general public, unrest in populated areas will see a sharp increase. Panic will take hold. Food will start to become scarce. People will die. Either by local riots, starvation or through law and order breaking down. Without policing of cities personal attacks on thieves and robbers will increase. Shops will be raided by normally well behaved people as food shortages start to bite.
Anarchy. Murder. Local groups banding together to protect their own areas.

It really does not have to be like this. Before the industrial revolution, we survived for many centuries on sustainable, renewable energy.
We have between ten and forty years to develop sustainable energy. Whether this is powered by wind, sea, nuclear or a combination is for governments to decide. And decide they must, quickly.

You can help yourself by starting to become self sufficient, reduce your dependence on obvious uses of oil, the car, plastic, electricity, central heating. Try growing vegetables in your garden or allotment. You might even enjoy it!!

As a nation, we are starting to become aware of change. But too slowly.
People on this blog complain of higher unleaded or diesel prices. How we should not subsidise third world countries. In reality it will make little difference to how long oil can be produced and consumed at the present rate.
It will soon be priced out of most peoples pocket around the world anyway.
Then the real fun starts.

Posted by A Is For Andbrake, 22nd January 2009 11:07am

The pound is falling even further against the dollar.
Be prepared for a price hike at the pumps.
It will NOT come down again this time.

The time of cheap oil has passed.

Forever.

Posted by Adem Doorsey, 22nd January 2009 6:26pm

The last two posts spell it out people, Cheap Oil is a thing of the past. It's going to start rising again.

Let's pray it doesn't reach $200 a barrel 'cos if it does we can kiss our current lifestyles goodbye ....... it'll be dog eat dog.

Alternative renewable energy needs to be found and found soon, fossil fuels are going the way of the dinosaurs.

Posted by Chris, 22nd January 2009 10:10pm

already has 4 times in 2 weks its went up bloody ridculous 11098 dont have a big garden why t he fk should i have to sdo what they want the govement can get ther fkin fingers out thats what

Posted by Dazza, 23rd January 2009 10:20pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

Information on the issue of peak oil production and the crisis facing the world including Hubbert Curve, Olduvai Theory, jargon, oil products, ...

google;

wolf at the door

Posted by A Is For Andbrake, 24th January 2009 6:50pm

///
11079 Chris

You asked if "big brother" was watching.
ITN news.
A controversial database containing the details of every child in England is set to be rolled out later.
ContactPoint, a £224 million project, was set up in response to a key recommendation of the Laming Inquiry into the tragic death of eight-year-old Victoria Climbie in 2000.
The directory will hold the name, address, date of birth, GP and school details of all under-18s, as well as the name and contact details of any professional working with that child.

Answer your question?


Posted by A Is For Andbrake, 26th January 2009 11:07am

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

The government are incompetents and generally crooked - this we all know! The oil companies have blamed the gov. for the high price of fuel - tax. However the price of oil at the moment is $46 a barrel, a third of what it was 6/7 months ago. Time for the oil companies to cut their price to the supplier-irrespective of whether they are a supermarket or a local garage!
Is it possible that the oil companies are just as disreputable as the gas and electricity suppliers? The gov. are never going to cut the tax - they need it more than ever.
If you were being paid £65k + £65k expenses would you care? A resounding "No!" from all our politicians!! Roll on the day of reckoning!!!

Posted by Bob Hedley, 27th January 2009 5:08pm

the price of a barrel of oil continues to head in a generally downward direction and the value of the pound against the dolar has rallied, yet still the price of petrol creeps ever upward. Can and 'expert' please advise what is going on?

Posted by John, 28th January 2009 4:28pm

11105
Quite easy to answer this question.
At the end of the day and when push comes to shove:-

WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF!!!!

When the budget comes in April (It's been postponed from March)
FUEL DUTY will be INCREASED yet again.

This government yesterday announced a package to help Britain's ailing motor industry. Had they "zero rated" V.A.T (or at least reduced it to the 5% minimum allowed under E.U.rules) on all British built cars we might have had a better chance!
No possibility of that though they've got expenses to claim.

Posted by Pea Coil, 28th January 2009 5:13pm

Gone from 83.9 to 85.9 in my local area in just 2 weeks. Oil prices cheapest they have been for a decade.
Government will not get away with this in the elections, if push comes to shove I will distill my own petrol from raw crude.
Right now the duty should be reduced to compensate for the falling exchange rate and keep prices constant. After all this is the fault of the government.

Surely a global recession would affect all countries so the exchange rate would remain unchanged but no; the s#itty pound continues to fall through the fault of this s#itty government.

I'm sick to death of nipple-feeding my car on overpriced "government fuel pumps" like it's some baby. About time I produce my own fuel.

btw The fuel has been watered down by ethanol so you get 5% less MPG.

Posted by Yukuk, 29th January 2009 1:43pm

We'll have bigger problems in a year if these prices continue. The global rig count is being slashed alarmingly, with many oil and gas rigs in the US being shut down temporarily or permanently and costly deep sea or heavy oil projects being axed thanks to lack of investment capital.

If prices remain under $80/bbl., then pretty soon we won't _have_ the fuel to complain about the cost of. It will be subject to insane price spikes and spot shortages, making any economic recovery doomed to failure. If we come out of this recession/depression soon, then prices need to rise. If we stay in it, then the cost of oil and therefore petrol and heating gas stays low... up until the natural decline rates start hitting the level demand fell too, in which case the cost goes up through the stratosphere to maintain supply and demand.

Posted by Kellerman, 29th January 2009 10:47pm

The Daily Express Friday 30th January 2009.

"MOTORISTS ARE FACING A NEW PETROL RIP OFF WITH RISING PRICES"

Posted by Day Lee Express, 30th January 2009 5:48am

//
RE 11108

KELLERMAN KELLERMAN KELLERMAN

How the devil are you? long time - no post !!

Oil experts in the Falklands have found a massive oil expanse. Possibly over 1bn barrels. They only need $20 Pb to explore further and excavate.

Why do OPEC need $80????

With all these drilling rigs sitting idle it should be a doddle to fetch the oil to the surface.

Peak Oil? Not quite yet.


Posted by Steve M , 30th January 2009 1:39pm

Re: 11110

Indeed, been a long time, comrade. How times change in such a short time. Wasn't long ago we were fearing $200 oil from an overheating economy.

I recall talking about this Falklands discovery some time ago too. To put it into perspective, that billion barrels isn't large at all. It's at the very low end for a giant field, and certainly no elephant scale one. One billion barrels is equivalent to 2.5 months of oil supply. Hardly saving the world, is it?

Additionally, if any of it is deep water, then it won't be a doddle to fetch. Not in the least. Look at Thunderhorse by BP in the Gulf of Mexico, which has been trying to produce oil for the best part of a decade with a rig that cost tens of billions to produce itself, to say nothing of labour costs.

No, not peak oil now. It was three years ago.

Posted by Kellerman, 30th January 2009 6:20pm
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