22.08.06 If parking isn't a crime why should I pay a fine?

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222 comments 5053 votes

It used to be that there were yellow lines in places where you were obstructing traffic flow and if you parked on them you got fined which is fair enough. It was a criminal offence after all and they were there for a reason.

Have we got too many yellow lines?

But in 1991 a new act of parliament gave local councils the power to decriminalise parking enforcement in their local area and collect the revenue for themselves.

In effect parking penalties changed from fines for crimes to another stealth tax all over the country.

Should parking be made a crime again?

People were so used to parking being illegal that they didn't realise the change had happened as everywhere in the UK started to get covered with yellow lines.

In my view councils should be putting lines down to manage the traffic and reduce accidents. But instead they are drawing extra ones to make money.

A bit like speed cameras but the big difference I do mind is that if you get caught speeding as with any other crime you get a fair trial before an independent court. If you want to argue with a parking ticket your first port of call is the Council who issued it and after that a body called NPAS which appears to be funded by Manchester Council.

It's a bit like your employer paying for the Judge at your employment tribunal against them, all wrong!

Have our Judges lost their power?

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If Illegal parking is not a crime -why? are we being fined for it
The law of the land says that if you commit a criminal offence you will be taken to court and judged, so how can the councils fine you, they are not the court, parking fines, dog mess fines, littering fines, etc ,all issued by the councils, why cannot somebody in the right field who know the law do something, the least we can do, is to show our displeasure by writing our views on the tickets we recieve, before we send them in.

Posted by Bob Andson, 23rd August 2006 11:16pm

Malcolm Bell is incorrect in his posting when he says Parking Attendants do not have discretion like Traffic Wardens do. PA's have exactly the same discretionary power to allow extra time for loading etc. where they consider appropriate. If a PA needed to do so, they could give a permit for a vehicle to park on lines all day. Whether they would consider it needed is another matter entirely.

Posted by Douglas Purnell, 23rd August 2006 11:19pm

Car parking charges are also turning into a windfall tax for many local authorities particularly now that the money can be collected automatically
and linked to a barrier system. Blog readers might find it interesting that Wolverhampton, as an example, is considering abolishing all car parking charges because they are having a damaging effect on trade there. Very good. More people should avoid parking charges by shopping in places where they are not charged for the privilege of spending their own money.

Posted by Nick Wiley, 23rd August 2006 11:22pm

Roads, pavements and bicycle paths should be designed and managed for the safe efficient movement of people, goods, and services. Part of the problem is that we are trying to fit a 20th Century machine into a medieval country. What we need is joined up thinking to create parking places that are safe, cost effective, and don't make the country look like an airport car park.

If local councils are using double yellow lines as a stealth tax they shouldn't be surprised when they loose the respect of residents and visitors alike. If they would work as hard at helping us find a parking place as they work at telling where not to park, maybe the whole system would function a lot smoother.

I agree with Nick. When you have a choice spend your money where parking is not a problem.

Posted by Russell Macleod Middleton, 23rd August 2006 11:30pm

To Dave Edwards, you should write a letter appealing against the ticket you received whlst parked outside your sisters house. I was parked on what I now know to be a single yellow line, but the time stated on the ticket was not the time I was surposedly parked on the line. I wrote a letter appealing against the ticket, and with amasement I was let off with a warning. I think it pays to complain, I only wish I had been so lucky when I was caught speeding three years ago. Our council seem to change the speed limits more times than I have hot dinners, what was once a 40 mile an hour limit went down to a 30 limit, now it is back up again to 40. Chief inspector Brunstrome has a lot to answer for in this part of the country.

Posted by June Davies, 23rd August 2006 11:33pm

I have been driving for 32 years and never had a parking ticket. I have a simple theory for this - Don't park on Yellow lines.
What makes me mad though is that cars displaying the disabled badges just seem to "home in" on the double yellow as though it's their own private parking area and get away with it. As yellow lines were primarily introduced as safety features, such as on blind bends, brow of hills, and to aid traffic flow on busy or narrow streets etc etc. Whats changed? I see these cars parked on all these places. When you apply for one of these cards ( we had a look at one for my dad) it specifies that it must be used responsibly or it could be taken away. More must be done to enure that the honest user is taught to use the badges responsibly and the dishonest must be dealt with apropriately. ( If anybody cares)
P.S.
If everyone stopped parking illegally, the councils wouldn't be able to pay for the wardens.

Posted by Tony Frank, 23rd August 2006 11:34pm

Bob Andson: 'If Illegal parking is not a crime -why? are we being fined for it'
There are two types of offences that you can be fined for in the UK. Criminal offences and Civil offences. A criminal offence is a crime, a civil offence is a misdemeanour. Both are actionable in law but a misdemeanour does not give you a criminal record. The reason that the council can fine you for parking offences is that by breaking the parking laws you are committing a CIVIL OFFENCE.
'Why cannot somebody in the right field who knows the law do something?' They do Mr Andson, they fine you! A civil law is still a law. It's a pity more people don't try abiding by them instead of trying to find excuses for breaking them.

Posted by Douglas Purnell, 23rd August 2006 11:39pm

I think we have it lucky here, in some countries the rules that apply to parking are ridiculous. They're rules stating that you can only park on one side of a street for a period of time then it swaps over to the other side, again for the same amount of time, usually monthly but varies with different countries.

I also have a feeling that motorists can get a ticket wherever you are parked if you're obstructing traffic flow. So why do we still have the yellow lines? What gets me is that traffic wardens get a kick out of distributing tickets (not all but some).

I live in near Blackburn and there is a town parking lot. Obviously you have to pay. I drive about 5 minutes up the road from there to another car park and park there for up to four hours FREE. It's mainly for the cinema but states that it is also for the town centre. So why bother paying when you're already charged enough for owning a car.

Posted by Graeme Berry, 24th August 2006 12:03am

While I agree about the yellow lines springing up, in our close we've been asking the council to re-do ours. It's a cul-de-sac, and pretty narrow for the first half of the street. The yellow lines that were there have worn off, consequently, people park either on the vanishing lines, or on the pavement across the road which makes it difficult for the disabled lady across the road to even get out of her front gate. I have a small hardstand/drive at the front to park on, so no problems for me, but I must be one of the best female reversers about sometimes, just getting off the drive due to parked cars. Sometimes our rubbish hasn't been collected because of inconsiderate parking by idiots both in our street AND the one we lead onto, god help us if there was a fire at the end of the street....NO WAY would a fire engine get up there

Posted by Sharon Jones, 24th August 2006 12:17am

I live on a main road and happen to have 2 double yellow lines outsdie my property. One day I had the decorators in working and so I parked my car on the GRASS verge outside my house so I could come and go as I pleased. I received a parking ticket ( although having lived in this area for 7 years not seen a parking attendant). The garage opposite saw what happened. The lady parking attendant was driving along the road and parked over the other side of the road to me, walked across, put the ticket on my car, went back to her car and drove off. I rang the Council up to be told even though you are on the grass verge (not the pavement), because we have double yellow lines outside our house, its classed as parking on the main road.I wasnt obstructing pedestrians and being on the grass verge obviously NOT obstructing any trafffic. I was also told that if any workmen working at my property wanted to park on the grass verge, they would have to submit an application to the Council prior to working there. AS IF. So fellow motorists if you live on a road with double yellow lines outside your property, beware the traffic warden!!

Posted by Mrs G. Oneill, 24th August 2006 12:32am

Yellow lines should be renamed disabled parking bays. The sudden increase in yellow lines in our towns is to allow orange badge holders easier access to shops perhaps. They can park pretty much anywhere there is a yellow line, cause an obstruction and clog up the roads anyway.

On most days in my town all the double yellow lines have badge holders parked on them and the street is at a standstill with vehicles pumping out fumes into the faces of poor young children and babies in prams. so much for fines and parking restrictions to keep things moving. Have the council forgotten what a double yellow line is for - no parking at any time. So get off your back sides and out of the office and survey these areas, provide parking bays for the disabled and keep the street clear, we don't choose to waste our high priced petrol watching people trying to manouvre into tight spots. Perhaps it's all a conspiracy. The more fuel we waste the more we buy, the more revenue the government collects, the more it increases fuel duty because of the 'impact on the environment'. The rich get richer, the poor get poorer. What will they tax us on when the fuel runs out? I dread to think.

Posted by Mark Lawrence, 24th August 2006 12:32am

I love my city (Plymouth) but the local council down here are off their collective rockers. In October our wonderful (if you say so) new shopping centre, Drake Circus (looks like a bunch of lunatic kids have been let loose with leggo and meccano, and that's just the outside), is opening, and what have the council just voted in.....increased parking charges starting in October. Add that to the the utter chaos the main road (Royal Parade) and the rest of the ring road has become, and I'm sure people will stay away in droves. And one councillor has just said that people who pay �50 for a ticket to the ballet won't mind paying a few pence extra on their parking!!!! Oh we also will have to pay for parking up till midnight, 7 days a week. I'm off to Tavistock to shop....it'll be cheaper.

Posted by Sharon Jones, 24th August 2006 12:38am

I dont have a problem with double yellow lines, I just dont park on them and if I do I only have myself to blame if I get a ticket.
The vast majority( if not all) of double yellow lines are there to help prevent inconsiderate motorists obstructing other road users and it makes my blood boil when I see disabled blue badge holders, lorry drivers and the like sticking two fingers up at the rest of us by parking on double yellow lines, if it is OK for them to park, it would say 'disabled parking' and 'deliveries exepted' which ocasionally it does in respect to off peak periods although this usually means there will be a single yellow line instead of a double.
I say the authorities should crack down on everyone abusing the restriction without exception.

Posted by Jack Spencer, 24th August 2006 12:42am

My gripe is FOG LIGHTS, I recently asked a police officer why so many old and young drivers were allowed to drive day and night showing fog lights when the road conditions do not warrant it. The reply I got staggered me, "It's only a �20 fine and not worth the effort"

I complained to South Yorkshire Police about this attitude, (as well as an officer I saw in a local village in a marked panda car with FOG LIGHTS ON at 7:30 pm in April on a clear night, NO blue lights or sirens just a poor driver) I got several e-mails back from various departments saying that there are so many variants of fog light s driving lights etc that officers cant keep up and basically it is "not worth the effort" I blame programs like TOP GEAR, and CAR MAGAZINES and TV programs that show vehicles been driven at high speed with fog lights on. It is about time people bought a highway code like I do every five years and keep up with the law. As well as being illegal it is very distracting, the highway code say's FOG LIGHTS MUST ONLY BE USED WHEN VISIBILITY IS REDUCED TO LESS THAN 100 METRES BY FOG, SPRAY SMOKE ETC AND AT NO OTHER TIME.

Posted by Ken Sturt, 24th August 2006 12:46am

I totally agree with what John R Styth had to say about parking on the pavements. This is not only completely selfish as it forces pedestrians into the roads including parents with pushchairs, wheelchair users, blind people etc.

Police take no action against this, primarily because most police officers are simply too lazy to deal with ANY issue that is not forced upon them.

As for the general moaning about parking fines. The solution is simple. Don't park (or speed for that matter) illegally and you won't get fined.

As for the pathetic whining that these are just stealth taxes; this usually comes from those who are breaking the law and is simply not true. Even Clarkson on Top Gear (not exactly a supporter of regulating drivers) pointed out that Simon Cowell personally pays more income tax than the so-called "profit" from ALL speeding tickets issued within the UK!

I personally would like to see MORE tickets for illegal parking and speeding.

Even it WAS just for taxation purposes, the Government/Local Authorities need X amount of money in order to provide services and they need to get it somehow. I would much rather they collected it from parking and speeding fines than from Law-abiding citizens through general taxation.

And while we're on the matter. What's wrong with getting rid of road tax and putting the extra on petrol; that way the biggest users pay the most. Why should people be penalised on the number of cars that they own, surely it should be on the miles travelled, should it not?

A gas-guzzler that does 3000 miles a year has less impact on the environment than a super-efficient "mini" doing 20,000!

Posted by Peter Metalli, 24th August 2006 12:53am

is it true that if a yellow line is broken as it has to be continuous from end to end the fine is invalid it must be continuous and no breaks anywhere innit.that is any yellow lines.

Posted by Alan Ross, 24th August 2006 1:50am

Recently, to avoid the yellow lines and red lines I parked behind my local shopping centre. There were three car parks - one for the local Building Society customers only, one marked "PRIVATE" and one unmarked (and I have the photos to prove it). I was 25 minutes and arrived back to see my car disappearing on a low-loader. The clamping company had parked a car in front of the only sign warning that this was private land - which was only 66cm off the ground. It cost me �375 CASH (which, as I informed the man at the gate of the compound, I did not carry on me as it wasn't safe- and so I was told to get on a bus and go and get it or pay the overnight storage charge in addition). When are we going to see an end to these extortionate charges by private clamping companies who prey (illegally in many instances) on the motorist. When will the law clamp down on them?
As if red and yellow lines are not enough! Let's mobilise the population to eradicate these terrors.

Posted by Margaret Croucher, 24th August 2006 1:51am

The way i see this parking problem is that if you park anywhere on a road you are technically causing an obstruction to other road users.
The councils come along slap meters on pavements and charge you for this space...it amounts to no more than legalised obstruction ..food for thought maybe

Posted by Ray Phillips, 24th August 2006 2:19am

The worst parking in my opinion is on bends and near junctions, ther are loads of situation like that around me but despite numoruse complaints from hundreds of resadents nothing is done, ther is also the "its my house and I will parke outside no mater what obstruction I cause" mentality that drives me mad.

Posted by Ian Grice, 24th August 2006 2:26am

I am a courier driver, and yellow lines are the bain of my life! There is absolutely no consideration given for the fact that I am often unable to deliver parcels (often heavy) because shops and offices, etc, are surrounded by yellow lines, making it virtually impossible for me to drop off close by without having to park on yellow lines. Allowances should be given for delivery drivers to use double yellow lines for off-loading. Additionally, I think delivery drivers should be able to use bus lanes the same as taxi drivers, where half the roads are given over to buses which hardly anyone uses!!

Posted by Robert Moores, 24th August 2006 2:57am

The yellow lines seem to be increasing throughout the country as local councils are attempting to inconvenience drivers as much as possible which I presume is an effort to reduce the number of cars on the roads. The planning rules have changed for new developments and they now accept 1 space per property in many instances to encourage people to possess one car per property and use public transport. The councils are allowing people to turn their front gardens into parking forecourts which in essence means that the property owner has claimed the road in front of his property as his own. This is unacceptable and inconveniences other road tax payers the right to park in the street without blocking his access. If there is no garage on the property there should be no access as the roads were not designed to allow for vehicles pulling out onto it and the character of the street is being spoilt.

Posted by Derek Tandy, 24th August 2006 3:46am

North Wilthsire County Council has just issued leaflets advising that from 4th September, 2006 they will have patrols in the area, issuing tickets where necessary. There are many, many streets whereby people simple park either down one side or on both sides because they live in an area with no off-street parking (very old terraced houses for example). This restricts the traffic allowing only one flow of vehicles at one time. Will all those who park get a ticket every day. A great money-making scheme!!

Posted by Caroline Stephens, 24th August 2006 6:49am

I work and park in Manchester city centre the one way system is just a nightmare they have parking bays on various streets �2.20 an hour. Not only do you get a �60.00 fine for being one minute over the lotted time I recieved a �60.00 fine for being outside the bay by half a foot to the rear. I checked the time I parked and within 2 minutes a fine was produced on my car which tells me the warden was within eye sight of me parking.

It seems as soon as you get behind the wheel these days you become a criminal which is so far from the true.

Terry

Posted by Terry Kemp, 24th August 2006 7:05am

To be blunt, the Councils (mine--Reigate and Banstead) are bleeding us all dry with their newly found parking enforcement cash cow. Their management of wardens, fees, application of yellow lines has little to do with safety, and unapologetically to do with catching the most drivers to increase takings.

In my town, the traffic wardens go around in twos in little uniforms that are reminiscent of Germany in WWII. If you do get caught and there is a good reason, writing with mitigating circumstances gets you nowhere. I have only had one local ticket - when I worked as a carer - and got stung on the job (parking safely in a side road, but with a yellow line on a Saturday). I gave my elderly patient the bums rush that day to get to the car in time but, too late, 5 minutes past the starting time it was already ticketed. Paying the ticket wiped out the entire days wages. I wrote to the Council, showing my schedule and card - they couldn't have cared less!

The Councils are bleeding their towns businesses dry, chasing away their customers who must drive there to use the shops.

I am a busy working woman, with children. I can no longer drive in my lunch hour to town and park and buy a few things without the fear of a parking fine. The car parks are all busy, I could always before find a spot on the road (and a safe spot too) for the 15 or so minutes I could spare to run in and get what I needed. The net effect is that I now don't shop at my local shops anymore. If I can't shop in a lunch hour or on the run, I have to shop Sundays or after 5.30 when they aren't open. I tend now to drive miles away to the superstore with free parking, or make a day and take the train to London shop and have lunch. Or drive to Bluewater. Or internet shopping-delivered in the evening or to my office. Reigate has great shops, but I just don't go there anymore. The shops I use in Reigate now tend to be Blockbusters, the cash machines, the pizza places, the cinema, restaurants. All those open after the traffic wardens have gone home, and the meters close down. Surely I am not the only one! Shame.

Oh and those speed cameras. When I see a vandalised speed camera I cheer!!! I see them located on on-ramps (when a car is meant to be speeding up to safely enter the highway) and never in areas (like residential neighbourhoods--or near schools) where speed of driving really counts!!!

Posted by Jody Salisbury, 24th August 2006 7:26am

I really think that more people should take issue over parking fines, after all a lot of parking lines are done illegally by the council
. You should take a photo of the alleged offence, and get legal advice from a reputable traffic sign advisor

Posted by S Hodgson, 24th August 2006 7:36am

I've been "done" a couple of times for not parking in the correct manner in public car parks. Apparently I've been outside the markings (they even exist?), facing the wrong way, or other contrived reasons why I should stump up a �30 fine.

What I do now is ignore the letter from the council demanding the fine - eventually the demand is passed to a debt collection agency, who write a nice letter, then eventually I pay them. However the service costs the council quite a bit of money, more than they make from the �30 fine.

Stuff it to the b*s*a*ds!

Posted by Keith Branf, 24th August 2006 7:58am

They placed parking holders permits around catford rail station and pushed the cars further up toward the main roads causing more congestion then comes the idea to ask householders to ask for parking permits starting at �25 a year like my brothers then to �125 fours years later??. no one use the catford station bridge parking area only a couple every day . they now adverstise � 5 all day funny isnt it. think before they ask for parking permits sound good but another tax .

Posted by Paul Ragsdale, 24th August 2006 8:10am

I have received two Parking Tickets within one week. One in a Carpark Controlled bySupermarket where I parked in the shade(very hot day), no lines or any indication I wasn't allowed to park there. Second 9minutes late in a Car Park, again very hot day and I had to queu to pay for a drink. The fact that I had paid for 4hours, nor the fact that I park there at least twice a week counts, overzeallous carpark attendants start at one end of the park and go thru' the rows. The fact that loads of other cars are parked without tickets and not get cought is just bad luck!!!!! I have appealed against Both = 4 weeks later I have not been told whether my appeals are beeing granted or if I have to pay. Must be loads od work for Councils to collect ALL the Fines!

Posted by Eve Mckinley, 24th August 2006 8:12am

Anyone who illegally parks deserves to be sanctioned. Personally, I think there should be a UK-wide standard parking fine of around �200, this would cover the cost of the administrative bureaucracy involved in issuing tickets ... it would also mean things like Fire tenders / paramedics having relatively un-obstructed access in certain places. They should also scrap the Blue-badge system and replace it with a fairer system only open to those "Disabled" who are ambient disabled and anyone caught abusing it should have their licence revoked!

Posted by S. Martass, 24th August 2006 8:14am

I got a parking ticket in Edinburgh on Sunday evening as the real wheels of my car were just touching a double yellow line. I don't know why anyone bothers to go to Edinburgh for the festival when the traffic wardens are fascists. The police seem intent on stopping motoring offences yet if they showed the same diligence in catching the burglars who burgled me twice perhaps it wouldn't have happened a second time.

Posted by Shirley Sharp, 24th August 2006 8:15am

I tend to use the yellow lines so I know I have parked straight along the kerb. Isn't that what they are for?

Posted by Andy Bushell, 24th August 2006 8:17am

Our Council must take the top prize for ripping us off. Not only are they now charging for parking on a Sunday on single yellow lines, which confuses all visitors, they are also charging �1.80 to park anywhere near a beach - not that there are proper car parks just fields and general flat sand that surround the beaches.

To cap it all parking down our High Street is so limited you just wouldn't believe it. But they are happy to let the 4 wheel drivers park in such a narrow street. However, the Council in their wisdom took it upon themselves to fine me for parking my Smart front on. I was well inside the allotted white lines and taking up so little space you would think they would welcome it. I fought the decision for over six months and in the end won, but was told I was parked illegally as our Council do not allow end on parking - even if your car is half the size of a normal one. Funny all Europeon cities positively encourage small cars - not Britian!

Posted by Diane O'connor, 24th August 2006 8:44am

Parking on Double yellow lines should be a criminal offence for the simple reason this act can cause serious injury or death. Not so long ago in this town people continually parked on Double yellow lines when they went to a shop for cigarettes etc., because they were too lazy to walk a few feet to park safely. A little old lady was forced into the road because of these people and was killed by a speeding mororist.

penalise drivers heavily for committing any dangerous offence.

John Mccarthy

Posted by John Mccarthy, 24th August 2006 8:49am

have a look at this site too. http://neilherron.blogspot.com This guy has traffic law off to an art!

Posted by Heidi Sutton, 24th August 2006 8:53am

The yellow line debate whinges on. If you see a restriction whether you agree with it or not you should conform to it. If it means you have to park farther away and walk do so. Excuses such as I'm just dropping someone off or just going to pop in I'll only be minute are selfish and lazy. It takes seconds to have an accident! These are the same people who park in disabled spaces or at the taxi set down point at supermarkets to nip to the cash point. What do they think gives them the right to do this. Fining is not enough!

Posted by Kevin Saunby, 24th August 2006 8:58am

.I agree local councils are simply trying to get as much money out of drivers as possible in any which way. Take for example you now have yellow boxes appearing all over Londo. At Traffic Lights at cross roads and even at side turnings with camera pointed directly to capture any unsuspecting driver whose car happens to slightly cross into the boxed area.
It is time some action was taken to prevent councils ripping drivers off.

I was fined for parking on a curve in Southall. The road i parked on had no parking restrictions and as the road was narrow to make it easier of other drivers to pass i put part of my car on the footpath which was not restricting anyone but when i came back i had a ticket on my car for having one wheel on the path. Lesson forget being sensiable if it is within the law but causes problems for others Ealing council say do it

Posted by Ajay Jindle, 24th August 2006 9:10am

Barnet Council do seem to be quite reasonable - for example, having double yellows only operative between 11am and 1pm, which effectively stop commuters from taking all the spaces near schools. I've also heard of people arguing tickets where double yellows don't have the bars on the ends, making them invalid. Or where the signs detailing the restriction times are obscured by bushes or under trees in the dark.
I have since moved to Enfield, where the council has contracted the policing of parking out to NCP - standard fine being �60, or a more reasonable �40 if paid within 14 days. Well I say reasonable.
On the bright side, it's now fairly obvious where those fine monies are going.
Then when you phone the number on the ticket to pay immediately, you get through to some awful automated service that takes you through a series of checking procedures lasting minutes on end, giving you another number to call when it can't find your ticket number because it's 'too new'. The phone charges did somewhat offset the �20 I was trying to save myself. I mean, hands up, my own fault, willing to pay (regardless of how ridiculous it is that I can't park in the bay next to the market square, safely out of traffic and not impeding anyone, between the hours of 10pm and 11pm). But it wasn't exactly made simple for me to do so. I'm happy that there are others out there across the country who are having the same experiences - for a minute there I thought it was a personal karma thing.

Posted by Sarah, 24th August 2006 9:17am

Some of the parking rules are just silly. I have to put two wheels on the
footpath ,which is illegal otherwise buses cant get passed. Whoever decided double decker buses can drive through a narrow residential street? Get rid of traffic wardens and speed cameras and bring police on the streets with a bit of common sense.

Posted by Phil Beale, 24th August 2006 9:20am

Whilst we are on the subject of illicit parking, I'd like to have my rant on the school run drivers who completely ignore the zig zag lines leading to and from pedestrian crossings. Not only is it dangerous but it carries a penalty of points on your licence if you are lucky or the death of a child on your concious if not. Where are the police when they are needed?

Posted by John Mason, 24th August 2006 9:29am

I have read some of the blogs, and agree with all of them. Its about time that the police did "equal policing" Our local free paper displays the court cases for the week, and at least 80% are for motoring convictions, and the culprits always get a sizeable fine. Wherehas there are very very rarely any burglars or muggers caught, and the shoplifters (no doubt caught by store detectives) sometimes get a fine, sometimes community service that a lot don't bother to do.

Posted by Phillip Cherrington, 24th August 2006 9:29am

Councils should be putting lines down to manage the traffic and reduce accidents. But I am pretty sure that intention changed. Now the line is to manage the traffic and reduce accidents as well as get some money. Now most of the places we can see the lines.

I have seen traffic wardens stay (hide?) in the side street, looking for anybody parking the car in the yellow line in nearby streets. Many traffic wardens knew where they can get more money!

As long as the lines are meant to manage traffic, thats fine.

Posted by Valan, 24th August 2006 9:33am

I have been an insulin dependent diabetic since 1980, driving for 10 years and find the increased parking restrictions constitute an unfair practice as no provision is made for a real eventuality of low blood sugar or hypoglycaemia whilst at the controls of a car.

I stand as a responsible driver with a notifiable lifelong condition who understands that I am not given the right to exercise my responsibility appropriately as in the event of reasonable doubt I am not permitted to stop my vehicle without obstructing traffic and without obtaining a fixed penalty in order to make a full and well understood recovery.

I am proposing a "Green Badge" scheme based on that of the existing Blue Badge disabled parking in regard to obliging local authorities to seek a review with local representatives of good practice and reasonable action for medical and practical considerations. Driving is a serious matter of European constitutional right which defends the dignity of the person and right of access to education, well being, employment and expression.

Without due consideration of the real vulnerability of an individual with a well defined medical condition, a local authority is denying equal access.

The terms of the Blue Badge scheme specify permanent physical disability in such a manner as to exclude the reality of diabetes. City and town centres are hostile zones to many people.

Posted by Alexandra Crawford, 24th August 2006 9:34am

In Preston (Lancashire) before the rule changes we had one traffic warden and now we seem to have about 20 - 30 however they do not seem to leave the confines of the city centre or the 4 pay and display car parks run by the council. I live near to one of the main bus routes into the city centre which has a lot of double yellow lines along it however there are always cars parked everywhere along this road and never a traffic warden in sight. It is obviously too much effort for them to come 1/2 a mile to a mile out of the centre to keep the bus routes clear or is it that there are too many rich pickings in the city centre and carparks for them. I believe that the traffic wardens should not be given quotas or bonus's for the amount of tickets issued as this just encourages them to slap them on any vehicle they can regardless of the situation.

Posted by Clive Godson, 24th August 2006 9:38am

Now there's a thing. I am not parked on a double yellow line but there is a bloke in a yellow jacket looking at my car and his watch with a little black book in his hand. If he looks at the sign behind him he will see that I am parked legally for another 20 minutes.

We live in a country where the minority speaks for the majority. Anything that is awkward and makes life hard is implemented and the more it costs the better. Pity we can't sack our own gonvernment due to poor performance, daylight robbery and for being duplicitous. All politicians are discombobulated and appear to live in a world that differs to ours!!

Cars are a necessity therfore so is parking.

Posted by M Lloyd, 24th August 2006 9:42am

I an responding to David Edwards post about parking outside his sisters house without displaying a residential permit on his vehicle and ending up with a ticket. I live in an area which residents hold permits for their vehicles and the ticket must be displayed on dates and times specified on signs around the area. If we have a visitor during an event we have to issue visitors permits for their vehicles, they are designed as a scratch-card so can be used throughout the whole year. The system seems to work well in the area and prevents others clogging up the local roads. The only thing I haven't seen yet is a warden coming to check the permits but they've only had a years and a half of it being put in place.

Posted by Jayne Langford, 24th August 2006 9:42am

The answer to the unfair parking restrictions is to write to the head of your local council asking for justification for yellow lines which are uneccesary, ie those which do not contribute to safety or traffic flow. If one person does it they will ignore you but if hundreds of people and your local press get involved they will have to give an answer. Don't just sit back and take it, give the fat cats at the head of these councils some grief.

Report all road defects in writing and copy your local press. Then the council can't use the old cop out "we cannot monitor the condition of all the roads therfore your ruined tyres and alloy wheels are not our problem"

We are all paying for these local services lets make sure that the council doesn't stuff all our money into their pension fund, and ignore what they were elected to do.

Posted by Bob Kelly, 24th August 2006 9:46am

From 4th Sept, the local government are taking over parking in North Wiltshire. We have a layby right outside our office but it has double yellow lines in it. People are always stopping and ignore them, I can see everyone being slapped with tickets from 4th . .

All the local carparks now charge but the first hour is free, this has come in in the last year, they were all free before.
Its fine for shoppers but what about people who work in the town, the council don't seem to realise if we can't park, business's will close and therefore there will be nothing for the shoppers to park for and they will lose out in the end.

Posted by Helaina Carter, 24th August 2006 10:00am

The parking situation is getting ridiculous. There are yellow lines on back streets in city centres where there are no buildings or links to main roads, so parked vehicles dont cause obstruction - they are literally 'dead end' streets but wardens still issue tickets to get revenue for the council. If anyone works in a city centre without company parking they have to pay a fortune in car park fees. Councils are charging for parking on all the streets or putting yellow lines down. You are not even safe these days if you park on a street without lines, cos at any minute the council could decide its a no parking zone or put lines down and you get a ticket anyway - its happening everywhere. I am paranoid about where i park, even if its legal at the time.

Posted by Carole Webster, 24th August 2006 10:10am

Am I wrong in believing that according to the Bill of Rights of 1689, all Parking fines are illegal?

The Bill is a constitutional staute which has not been repealed nor superceded and it states: "that all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void".

This statute has been successfully used by a motorist to challengs a string of London congestion charge fines. Given that "illegal" (incorrect) parking is no longer a criminal offence, any associated fine is therefore illegal.

I don't think this argument can be used against speed camera fines as they will result in a legal prosecution.

Comments please?

Posted by Paul E Newbery, 24th August 2006 10:15am

It seems to me that the council only paint yellow lines absolutley everywhere so their rude and ill-trained traffic wardens can slap a ticket on your car and make more money for the council to waste on painting more yellow lines and enforcing more stupid parking restrictions!

I paid and displayed the other day to park in a bay for one hour, as I still hadn't finished shopping I ran back to the car and put another ticket extending my time for another half hour. Please note this was a bay you can park in for upto 2 hours. When I got back to the car I found a ticket warden issuing me a ticket and laughing...I told him I'd paid for a ticket and he just said 'I know'. When I later phoned the council to complain, they told me if I'd wanted to park there for an hour and a half I should have brought 1 ticket for an hour and a half and that your not allowed to buy 2 tickets! Where is there any sense in that?!!!

It just shows what money grabbing b******s they really are!

Posted by Helen Williams, 24th August 2006 10:21am

It is outragous that councils put yellow lines in places that are completely unnessesary. They should only be put in places where parking would affect traffic flow. Councils have now become so money grabbing and are not satisfield with raising council tax by such outragous amounts but also want to rip us off in every other way too.

Posted by Linda Morris, 24th August 2006 10:22am

local councils are only interested in making money (more money = more extravagance and more power) give them a chance to milk the public and they will take it and abuse it, and the apathetic people in this country let them and you'll not change anything until people start thinking about there comunity instead of just themselves , what we need in this country is a proper motorists lobby and not just the RAC that old stalwart they drag out when they need a "motorists" opinion i mean a groupe like the motorcyclists have in MAG and the BMF , these groups will fight and lobby to get a better deal for the motorist government are organised its about time we got organised.

Posted by Graham Flinn, 24th August 2006 10:34am

when I passed my test years ago I was taught to drive according to the conditions, now speed cameras are giving fines for 34mph on empty dual carriage roads but don't seem to pick up road ragers and people exceeding the speed limit by excessive and dangerous speeding.
Parking fines are given too often for parking in the right spot but with a minor error on filling in the details on the voucher, whilst others are unfined for double parking and obstructing.

Posted by Cathy Glendinning, 24th August 2006 10:43am

I live in London, and i feel the use of yellow lines is used beyond the point of road safety. I strongly believe that as long as your not obstructing a vehicle, pedestrians or the road itself then there is no need for a yellow line and you should be allowed to park. And the parking wardens in this city are by far the worst ive experienced, youve got speed cameras on every road, rising petrol prices, congestion charge, road tax, residential parking, and parking metres are a rip off (central london �4 an hour) All these costs add up and i think something has to be done before its too late! I think i speak for everyone i know when i say "it feels like they are doing it on purpose to piss motorists off"

Posted by Daniel Castro, 24th August 2006 10:43am

Unlike the majority of our population I along with many disabled persons am unable to visit many locations unless there are vacant disabled person parking spots.

I cannot tell you how often I have gone to shop and had to return home because the disabled bays are all occupied and not all with cars displaying disabled badges.

When able bodied I wouldn't dream of parking in a disabled bay and would have been ashamed to do so. I think the majority share this view.

What is not amusing is the people who park in the bays who are obviously dressed and seen to attend the local fitness centre, but who cannot utilise their leg muscles and park a little bit further away in vacant bays supplied for them.

I know disabled bays are an annoyance to many but they are so essectial to us and the difference between being able to go out or stay at home. Please, please don't deny those disabled their little bit of freedom, God forbid you might need those bays yourself one day.

Posted by M.pigott, 24th August 2006 10:46am

with reference to 'Bob Vandepeer, 23rd August 2006 5:48pm's comments on how so many people 'who are obviously not disabled' use blue badges, does he realise just how many people have invisible disabilities, ie they appear to be walking perfectly normally when leaving their car, but within a few minutes they suffer acute pain and severe discomfort whilst either walking, or even having to stand in a queue, most likely caused by arthritis, sciatica or fibromyalgia, all of which I suffer from myself. I am very aware that many times people look at me as if I have no rights to be parked with a blue badge, but if they were to wait to see me coming out of the shop when I can barely walk they would see such a difference.

With regard to police parking rights, I have personally observed some time ago two policemen park in a disabled parking bay in Dursley, Gloucestershire, and when my husband asked them why they needed the disabled bay when there were other parking bays free, he was told to piss off and mind his own business (their words not mine), they could park where they want. they went into the shop and bought some cigarettes (I think it was cigarettes) then came back out and drove off. we should have reported them at the time but as we were having some personal problems at the time forgot to do so.

recently i visited Bristol to collect my daughter from Bristol Royal Infirmary, parked at what I thought was a disabled spot, and returned to find a parking ticket. I wrote to the Bristol council to see if they could dispense with the fine due to the circumstances but yesterday received a letter telling me that i should not use my blue badge incorrectly and i should check the regulations regarding blue badge use! i have now grudgingly paid the fine, but did enclose a letter requesting that in future they read their correspondence more thoroughly as i never asked to be forgiven the indiscretion because i had used the badge incorrectely - but - because, being a stranger to parking in Bristol, i mistakenly saw that the street was divided in two by a pedestrian crossing. i wrongly assumed that as the bottom half of the street was all for ambulance parking, the top half of the street was for disabled parking, as there are about 3 disabled spots at the top of the street. i inadvertently parked in the ambulance spot at the top half of the street and was not only fined for my mistake but also treated as if i was a careless blue badge user, which i am not.

now after all that grumbling, i would like to say that i really appreciate the petrolprices.com site as i regularly change my petrol station so that i can get the cheaper petrol, keep up the good work

Posted by Margaret Sloan, 24th August 2006 10:52am

They have just put double yellow lines right around my mother's property so it is impossible to park outside and the other properties are converted into flats so you can imagine the havoc is has caused. When I telephoned them to ask why they said there had been numerous accidents at that junction which was a lie. My family have lived at the property for nearly 50 years and in all that time there has been one accident and that was over 20 years ago so it can only posisbly be a revenue thing!

Posted by Kathryn Marston, 24th August 2006 11:15am

Those that worry about getting parking tickets are most likely the ones to take a chance. Take note of ALL signage and read it carefully. (For example, just behind Shepherd's Bush station, in West London, you can park in a pay and display bay, but MUST (!) pay from 9.00am to 6.30pm. You could think that after 6.30pm it would be free to park. It is not. Look further down the sign and it will tell you that between 6.30pm - 8.00pm, parking is for residents only). One tip is to use your mobile as a reminder and set an alarm in advance of your expiry time. A great way to avoid parking tickets. In London, the best way to travel is by bike anyway!

Posted by Ben Owen, 24th August 2006 11:19am

Bob Vandepeer's sensible blog struck a chord - Cars displaying blue Disabled badges when there's not a disabled (i.e. someone incapable of walking the 400m to the stadium) person among them.
We live near a major new football stadium where resident's permits apply between 8.30 and 18.30 on weekdays and to 1.30 at weekends (we pay for the privilege of these and for visitors' passes). On match days this is extended to half an hour after kick off, but despite supposed restrictions on local access except for residents, our road becomes crowded with cars displaying disabled badges. I have had stand-offs with some drivers in the past. Most are aggressive, because they know full well they're abusing the badge, but as some are unsure of the consequences if reported I've had some wins.
However, a few weeks ago I raised this with the Police Officer who controls match days and he basically advised that there's little they can do, even if they were to observe what I constantly see, other than to take action against the proliferation of fake badges which are apparently very common. This well-known club's brand new stadium apparently incorporated underground space for coach parking for c.40 coaches. However, police "security" issues have prevented them from utilising that so we're back at square one with coaches being parked on the surrounding streets (often on yellow lines/hatched areas) and shunting those with residents' passes onto the neighbouring streets to compete with their residents and swollen with the cars with disabled badges. The only other solution the police have suggested to the "disabled" supporters issue is that they should apply to the club for permits to park in the vacant coach parking within the stadium. That should appeal to the genuinely disabled, but won't to those who are abusing the system and just want a quick getaway. I'm monitoring that one with interest!

Posted by M Norton, 24th August 2006 11:29am

If you think thats bad, Wigan have taken to putting a �75:00 fine if your vihicle touches a whit line in a car park.

They issued me with two tickets in a week for not placing My Disabled badgein the wrong part of the windscreen, and dispite getting the press involved, I still had to pay the fine out of my small pension.

The Morel of the story is steer clear of Wigan and district , its full of Morons in the council.

Posted by John Meakin, 24th August 2006 11:41am

I visited Skipton in Yorkshire last year and you have to put in your car registration when getting a car park ticket, so not only do they rip you off but they make sure you dont give your ticket to anyone else especially if you only stopped for a short time and theres loads of time left, thats so selfish isnt it. Also in Westbay Dorset, I was there last Sunday and you have to pay up to 9pm and as we left at 8.30pm we saw a traffic warden checking the cars very sneaky,so anyone thinking of going to Westbay, beware.

Posted by Monica Brennan, 24th August 2006 11:44am

A real issue for which people need to be aware and gathered to fight for justice.
few points of note:
1). with so much taxes on fuel, road taxes, parking fees etc and so much other avenues for government to earn from vehicle owners, it must be a resopnsibility of the parking fine taker (eg. council,) to see there are enough parking spaces available. the coucil should be responsible to find out numberes of cars entering each day in key areas of thy council and then creat accordingly spaces for parking available. this is not difficult or impossible. they can creat extra parking space by doing a multistoreyed parking if required. if council fails to prove statistically that parking spaces are enough for that area, they should not be allowed to fine for parking offences. this can be audited at certain intervals lets say every two years.

2). Any government, or authority or leaders when they think of earning from fine, that is a horribly state of affairs, because that means, actually they want more people to do offence to earn more and that mean they will keep difficult situation like less parking spaces or awkward road condition, situations, more double yellow lines etc as it is or will try to increase them in the name of safety or traffic manageement etc etc and never try to resolve it.
so we should unite and say parking fines can not be a means of earning.

3). pay and display machines should be banned as they are not only cruel, inhuman they are exploiting. you park and go for shopping thinking of returning within an hour and then conditions can not always be in your favour, you may become late without any of your faults, and you get a ticket. once I have been to a barbers shop for simple haircutting after parking my car for an hour paying pay and display slip for an hour. there was queue and it took 40 minutes before my number came. now even knowingly i will go above 1 hour i could not return to amend it because if I go out of shop i will loose my turn and if I take my turn I cannot get off the chair at half the way cutting my hairs!! there can be many many situations like this., so in all we should yell to spell them (pau-display machines) illegal.

4) all the machines taking parking fees must either give change of all denominations of pound or there must be a coin machine besides parking machine to give change. it is illegal not to accept any currency by anybody in the country (for example if you go to a shop and give 20 pounds note for any goods worth 8 pounds the shop keeper can not say that according to their policy they do not take 20 pounds note, can they!!) the parking machines are doing same in a way!!!. so councils should not be allowed to take fees if the machines are not accepting all denominations of pounds (all coins and notes) or if machines are not giving change.

Posted by Mitesh Shah, 24th August 2006 11:56am

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

In our towns and villages all over our country the local councils have lined our roads with double yellows to keep traffic moving. They then realise that with clear roads comes higher traffic speads and then they are forced to invest our taxes in traffic calming measures to slow motorist down.

In France there are very few parking restrictions in comparison to England. The French village roads are lined with cars which act as a speed deterant. This deterant alters with the time of day and the day of the week, drivers are effectivly forced to drive at a speed which is safe for the time of day. A win-win for both the motorist and pedestrian.

Posted by David Forey, 24th August 2006 12:23pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

Parking regulations in this country have become a mess! It is therefore not surprising that there are so many motorists with so many gripes; hey I'm one of them.
Several years ago, when parking was still a criminal issue, I parked in a Pay and Display parking bay, in Glasgow city centre, for 1 minute to buy a newspaper. When I started to drive away I was stopped by an eager police officer who advised me that I was causing congestion by parking. Eh? It appears that Pay and Display tickets have some sort of magical power that instantaneously stops your parked car being a congestion causing monstrosity.
And what is the difference between the red lines and yellow lines, between double and single? They all appear to mean the same thing now. You can stop or park on them if you meet the criteria specified on some notice plate or on your parking badge. Otherwise you are a danger to the whole of civilisation and single handedly stopping the movement of every vehicle throughout Britain.

Posted by Ron Atkins, 24th August 2006 12:39pm

Community Policing does not work, they are another example of Government/Local Councils taxing the motorist.

As a former Charman of Magistrates (28 years on the Bench), I have seen both sides. Now aged 74 I recently stopped at my local Chemist to drop in a Prescription, when I came out I was booked by a Community Police Officer who had been behind a wall, for parking on a yellow line, (Guilty as charged), on the ticket the time for the offence wa 9.57 to 10.00 am.
I should know better, but I am not very mobile, and do not have a disabled badge. I fine example,hic, of Local Authority Taxation

Posted by Douglas Mclean, 24th August 2006 12:57pm

May be a little off topic but what gets my goat is being charged to park at the side of the road, I've allready paid to use the damn thing so why should I pay another �1 + a hour, even more galling when it is at for instance at the seaside where the charge is seasonal and big notices saying even blue badge owners are'nt exempt only residents, do the residents pay more road tax than me!

Posted by Andrew Leckenby, 24th August 2006 12:59pm

i am fed up with people taking a total disregard of parking restrictions a road by us has double yellow lines due to traffic lights and the width of the road there is a FREE shoppers car park at the back of the shops not even 5 mins walk and yet people park on the lines and footpath no trafic wardens and no police i got a ticket outside my own house at 2.30 AM (last house in a dead end street) for parking the wrong way without lights!!!!! we also have an instance where our local council have spent tens of thousands of pounds on an investigation to implement a RED ROUTE apparently this means NO PARKING so would I be correct in thinking double yellow means no parking but go on then but then RED LINES mean "and we realy mean it this time
the majority of the RED route included roads where there are already double yellow lines if the Police enforced parking violations maybe we would all be able to get about better

Posted by Mike Freeman, 24th August 2006 1:22pm

The British motorist is being ripped of by the Government and local councils

Posted by Mr Robin Mccormack, 24th August 2006 1:35pm

As usual any one in authority in this country goes for the easy target.
Parking offenders are an easy target, especially the ones who pay road tax and insurance and can be tracked back home. How hard do they try for the 'foreign tourist' or the stolen car driver, or the illegal immigrant who has no licence, no tax and no insurance.
As with all 'government agencies' if it takes a bit of effort, they don't try too hard.

Posted by Paul Trathan, 24th August 2006 1:36pm

I am getting rather concerned and disappointed with the people on here saying that some people, displaying a blue badge, are not disabled. Not everybody's disability is that obvious - have some consideration! I agree that an able bodied person should not be abusing the blue badge system. But please don't jump to conclusions just because somebody is not in a wheel chair or have some other disability which can be seen immediately. Hey ho!

Posted by Hilaryl, 24th August 2006 1:37pm

About 20 years ago I had a really bad day colecting garments from an East London factory. I stopped on a yellow line outside a Burger King in Lower Regents Street for a bite to eat im my truck (for those that don't know this road is about 6 lanes wide and one way).

A young femail traffic warden then knocked on my passenger window and told me I could only park there if she could have a chip! Made my day.

High street deliveries was one of the hardest/frustrating/tiring jobs I have ever done, and I haven't done it for many years.

Posted by Simon Moppett, 24th August 2006 2:01pm

Yellow lines are killing off the local shops It is no wonder that people go out of town to shop at supermarkets. The local government are getting gready as they see motorists as easy money

Posted by Maureen Miller, 24th August 2006 3:00pm

We have double yellow lines outside our house, when I complained about them I was told we are a danger to traffic if we park there.We have double yellow lines outside the local bingo hall (Basildon) and when I complained about all the vehicles that were continuously parked on the lines the council told me they were disabled badge holders. So it would seem by having a disable badge in your car you are no longer a danger to other traffic.

Posted by Eddie Bourke, 24th August 2006 4:47pm

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