Manchester hoping to operate first pay-as-you-drive scheme

Nice blog and nice comments. This blog is really very interesting.

Remember that when the congestion charge was started in London, also to help with public transport, they were at least telling part truth, London does indeed have a "Public" transport system. Both the bus and undergroung are still "public" companies. If this is allowed to be introduced it will mean all of us as private citizens will be required to pay for and subsidise "privately owned" transport systems, which as we already know with the Metro link that the cost of travel will cost the earth.

Am I missing something here with the congestion charging? The governement say the money will be used to pay for improved public transport. What the hell else are they spending the Fuel / Car tax on.
So they don't use the current taxes etc.... to improve the Public Transport system to give us a viable alternative - instead they choose to tax us again for a service we are in theory already paying for.

Stupid politicians and the eco-mentalists or more stupid public for putting up with it.

The government knows it will need to charge by the mile probably by sat nav systems or spy in the cab.
This is because as people start to use electric ,Hydrogen,Bio fuels etc the Government loses tax revenue.
To prevent this they will have to go to universal charging on a distance basis.
Remember there are only two things certain in this life,Death and taxes.

Just had a phone call from an associate near Farnham Commom , Bucks. Had to visit six service stations until he found one with Diesel still for sale. All the others had sold out. Are drivers panick buying or this this an applied shortage by the suppliers?
I will need to 'fill up' tommorrow, will there be panick buying here?.
Just had my anual bill from the DVLA, gone up again, now £205.00 pa for diesel car. If I cant buy diesel why should I have to pay road Tax?.

this is the biggest load of rubbish going the real truth behind this sceme is that the goverment know that oil is gone within 20 years and as does their big tax earning
so when they finally release a new fuel that is cheap, clean and possibly self sustaning this stupid scheme will be in place and we will have cheaper transport in respect of fuel but will be worse off in the long run

so uk join the fight

Pay as you drive in this country is a non starter and MUST be stopped at all cost. The reason is that in infringes my human rights to be trated equelly as a fellow European. Why ??, As the DVLA admit that they only have about 76% of all UK cars on the data base and that is what the system works upon, that leaves 24% of all UK vehicles not registered, meaning NO Tax and No Insurance, these vehicles will travel ANYWHERE totaly FREE, as when the numbers are taken NOTHING is known about them, All Migrant works cars (unregistered) will go free, all foreign cars will go free, all foreign Lorries will go free...Not a post code lottery this time , a passport lottery, you will only have to pay depending upon where you come from. I have a right to be treated equelly as any other euopean, and not because i operated a legally taxed and insured vehicle.

As a disabled pensioner, I am totaly against any form of extra charging to use
the roads. We pay enough to drive already with road tax, insurance, maintenance services, and over the top petrol prices. I drive an estate car
fitted with a hoist to lift my scooter in and out. It would be impossable for me to use public transport or even taxis, and even more difficult when other drivers park to close for me to even use my equipment even though I have stickers in my rear window. We must drive the prices down not allow them to drive the prices up.
Posted by Richard

We are all being lead down a path full of government lies and half truths. We were told the cause of global warming is due to us, the motorist pumping pollutants into the air. So all new cars had to be fitted with cats! I have no objection to catalytic converters on cars, they do remove poisons from our exhaust fumes, they do what they are meant to do.

All cars have to under go an MOT to show that they are not pumping huge amounts of poisons into the air. So we all make sure that we are running cars that are not breaking the rules, or so we hope.

Now we are told that we are still doing it, cars are polluting the atmosphere, so we will have to pay for using the roads, which are in an appalling state, roads which we have paid and paid and paid for. Will this mean that we not going to use the roads? No of course it won't, we will still use them, and to this end we will have to have more money to pay for the tolls, road charging, road tax, petrol tax, tax on our insurance to drive, tax on our MOT, tax on the cost of the maintenance and what happens to all this tax? It goes into the pockets of the fat cats who charge inflated prices for maintaining the system. Government seems to believe any waffle that will make them money.

The price of fuel goes up, the cost of goods goes up to recover the cost of the higher transport costs, we pay.

We are slowly being squeezed for more and more cash and we seem to be just sitting back and doing nothing.

Where did all this global warming guff come from? Well let me tell you, it goes back to one person Mrs Margaret Thatcher, She set up a science foundation to find a way to say that burning fossil fuels was the direct cause of global warming. Why? So that she could destroy the National Union of Mineworkers, she didn't care about the truth she only wanted to destroy a union and wanted to find a way that would look good on paper.

We have been suffering ever since.

If you think I'm talking rubbish please go and do some research, the web is there to be used, and if you research the subject you will find the truth. In saying that, us because it's on the web doesn't mean it's the truth, so please do dig deep, as it's all there for you to find.

The problem with us of late seems to be that we have grown so complacent that we let the people we elect run roughshod over us. We suffer while they enjoy jetting around the world telling us we are destroying the planet!

I am growing increasingly frustrated by politicians making the Car owning public the target for taxation. Motorists are an easy target, they (we) pay up without a murmur. OK so there is congestion on our roads. What does that tell you? Even with long queues and extortionate costs people still prefer their car to public transport.

It is not suprising, in my car I sit in a luxurious seat that moves in every direction to fit me. I have temperature control to keep me warm in winter and cool in summer. On my music centre I have all the sounds I want and silence if I prefer. My car takes me door to door (well almost).

But I work in London and would never dream of driving there because I to get to work before 9, I would have to leave before 6 and the same going home. So I forsake my beautiful machine and take a train. What do I get for my £3,500 per year? Abuse, lack of comfort (assuming I can sit down) other peoples sounds and worse other peoples smell. Often the train is delayed and sometimes just cancelled.

So, I ask, isn't congestion just a self regulating process? If the journey in the car takes so long, most people end up self regulating and take a train, even though it is horrible.

Its time the motorist hit back and took action to tell the politicians to butt out and stop stealing our hard earned money without giving anything back. Time we took to the streets and created a traffic jam that would take weeks to sort out.

ok... so.. hang on...
we pay tax/duty on a new car
then tax on road tax disk
then tax/duty on petrol
and now tax for driving on some roads?

how many times do we pay the government for the SAME THING?!?!?
As Jamie ^^ said, I've been driving in Europe for a few years too and have only encountered well maintained roads, good directions and few holdups. Driving here at home, especially in Yorkshire, I've had to replace shocks and suspension parts on a regular basis due to the terrible quality of the roads. I don't see why we should have to pay a FOURTH time for a road system which in other countries, would be free and of a much higher standard!
...but hey, having said that, we're British aren't we. lets just have a moan, do nothing and just accept it.

Will this extra taxation improve the motorists lot? unlikley
Will it cost the motorist more to do the same as now? very likely
Will an existing tax be removed and will city centre parking be free? defintley not!
Will public transport improve enough to be a viable alternative to the nurses and other key workers not on 9 to 5 ? No of course not
Will Goverment and the councils rub their hands together as the anticipate the new revinue streams? you bet they will.
Did the public transport thing the other Sunday simple journey Twickenham to High Barnet at 10:40 on a sunday night. Got home at 02:00 and had to walk a couple of miles! Public transport in the big cities in the 21st century why would I want to?

This is just the beginning, 1st charging you to drive....

Next Insurance Companies knowing where you are, what speed your doing, means higher Premiums for those who work nights, drive at certain times of the day. or just like to go a little faster than others...

that means you WILL get caught for running red-lights, speeding inner city or on motorways, without a copper in sight.

Insurance Companies have been doing Pay-as-you drive for a while, Norwich Union Direct did it 1st, everyone will soon catch on.

Taxing is one thing, BIG BROTHER is coming.

Although a firm supporter of the government I am starting to feel that our freedoms are being somewhat eroded and compulsory this and that is starting to be the order of the day.

A clear tactic to force those of us who cant pay the charges onto public transport whether they like it or not.

Whatever happened to `choice' or is that only for the rich in Britain today.

I Spoke recently to an American couple visiting a sick relative.
He was a postman, she a part time secretary. I was suprised to hear from them the lifestyle they enjoyed with a large detatched house in its own grounds, several holidays a year and both car owner drivers.

Thier comment of `If we lived in Britain we would have nothing, we couldn't afford to live here' rings in my ears as does thier `You guys in Britain get screwed every way by your government, your banks and your retailers - they think you are all a soft touch'.

Food for thought hey ?

Something has to be done but unless a nationwide scheme is rolled out, I am sceptical of local schemes such as this. This scheme involves charging motorists based on mileage AND charging road tax AND fuel tax regardless of the type of vehicle driven.

A nationwide scheme which saw the cessation of road and fuel tax and involved charging based on the current car tax bands along with the distance travelled would surely make more sense. This may be more acceptable to the public and would encourage environmentally friendly vehicles.

I fully understand the need to cut down unnecessary use of short journeys where that are other meens of transport. (Remember the use of legs)

But what about out of towns where there is no public transport or elderly, infirm or disabled people? How long before this includes them.

I don't know how you manage! It's a tax and spend culture for sure. I was born and raised in Wales, and now live in Florida. I just returned to Florida after spending 14 months in the UK. With UK petrol equivalent to about $8 (USD) for a US gallon (about 4 litres) and road tax where it is and going higher it must be hard to make ends meet. Ask an economist where most tax money goes, and you will find it goes into the general tax slush funds, both local and government.

If toll roads, for example, were built to expedite travel, that’s one thing; but to "tax" people again to travel on roads that they are already paying for in one way or another is a disgrace.

It goes along with George Brown's stock solution, "have a problem, throw money at it".

I won't start in on George Bush's policies around the world, but you can more or less blame him for the unprecedented high oil prices and it's resultant trickle down effect to the populace in general.

Some are advocating penalising so-called gas-guzzlers. I recognise that there is a place for highly efficient small cars too. I recently drove from Toledo Ohio to my home in Florida in my Chevrolet van, which weighs in at 2 1/2 tons and does about 18 miles to the US gallon. The distance was about 1,200 miles in 16 hours; try that in a Smart Car!

Good luck with your fight against "pay as you go." Don't accept it unless it replaces some other form of taxation. You don't need to pay twice.

The comments above are just my views and opinions.

Marvellous isn't it. I thought the last highwayman was hanged at York but it appears I was mistaken. Manchester Council has taken his place. Seriously, if the transport department would ensure free movement of traffic and not block it with silly pavement extentions and "sleeping policemen" which don't stop the 'boy racers' and only hold up emergency vehicles and legitimate drivers. Improve the roads by widening them, removing useless obstructions and keep heavy goods off city inner roads which were not built to carry them!

I live in Bristol, also another city looking at charging the motorist to use the roads. Couple of points:
1) I already, like others PAY to use the roads, If this rolls out you will pay twice to use the same road. Question.. Would you think it was acceptable to pay for your food shopping in the super market at the till and then pay again at the door. Thought not, so why the roads.
2) Trying to tax one type of car more than another will only eventually result in this being forced on a wider range of cars untill eventually we are all restricted to smart cars or the equvelant. Might sound good, but smart cars dont tow caravans very well, so think of all the people who will loose their jobs in that industry and the assosiated industries. 4X4 today, spors cars tomorrow! It will have a far ranging impact than caravans though.
3) This is not an enviromental issue as it is scientificaly known that CO2 emissons do not cause global warming. But those of you that like to shout about this issue, keep going, Brown abd Blair love you.
4) This will force many people on low incomes out of work. Why because here in Bristol there simply is not a public tranasport system that you can rely on like in Lodon and Manchester, therefor no alternative. At least the increase in tax on the roads should pay for their dole money though.
5) You are going to be priced off the roads eventually. You will cease to be able to work anywhere, you will loose contact with family apart from telephone and you will not travel apart from where public transport will take you. The cost of living will rise sharply as companies have to run smaller shops and have to pay to use lorries to get the food to the stores as they have done upto now as there is no rail infrastructure to cope with high volumes of freight. Just be gratefull that those of us who are not car owners and have supported getting cars off the roads will get stung by this one as well.
Just remember to be happy for none of us campaigned against it and therefore have accepted it.

i agree wit the charge for larger cars, for example 4x4's but if your a city person in a little car like a Peugeot 107 or something its a little stupid. I'm just not happy because there talking about introducing a charge for motorcyclists; which i think is totally stupid, bikes don't make as much carbon emisions as cars, and they don't add to city jams because they cut through it, and they say they'll spend it on public transport, but just you watch, we'll end up with another stupid idea like the "big bang" that they made outside the man city stadium that still has construction fences around it 4yrs after it was made, that cost us 3 million.

Manchester, is the first Local Authority, to roll out it's Road Charge proposals in the now popular "Funding Game".

They have to submit their plans to "Westminster", in order to get the funding for the project. There are about 10 Local Authorites across the UK, vying for a piece of the pie.

Tax payer's are now funding plans, to charge them even more for services, they've already paid for. Nice work, if you can get it.

Manchesters plan, will cost the average motorist £5.00 per day or £25.00 per week, if you do the round trip daily. Will it ease congestion? Looking at London it's debatable.

After Administration costs, and Operating costs are deducted, there's not much left for Public Transport Investment, and of course the fee's will have to go up, as in London.

this is yet another ''Stealth tax'' to which the goverment want you and i to contribute too.
Surely this must have a knock-on effect for the manufacturers of cars, as we already are paying well over the top for a new car plus very expensive fuel to run it.
If they want to introduce a mileage tax then something must be given back to the motorist by scrapping the road tax.
£1.20 per/mile I think was mentioned on the news last week, this will work out very expensive for some families, and may force them to give up their car.

Man.. talk about the price of gas!!! its like 3.49 a gallon here.. man that is like robbery! Were americans we shouldn't have to pay over 99 cents a gallon.. because we are just special like that.

Amazing how I was able to travel 2000 miles across Europe on wider, better maintained roads, with little or no roadworks and slightly higher speed limits than in the UK. Only in one country did we have to pay any form of toll or congestion charge, and this was also minimal.

Fuel was cheaper, and most of these countries didn't even have a form of road tax, and yet investment in its motorways was obviously heavier than in the UK, I can't even remember seeing a pot hole, and speed cameras are nowhere near as widely used as in the UK.

With the amount that drivers already pay in higher fuel taxes, and the road tax not to mention the additional revenue raised from cameras, then we should already have the best roads and public transport infrastructure around. But is this the case?.

Congestion is eased in other European countries by adopting a flexible working environment which removes the requirement for everybody to be on the road at the same time - i.e "Rush Hour". Some workers are also encouraged to work from home, making any need to travel minimal. Why are we still stuck in the dark ages with regard to flexible working and why cannot this be part of employment law, surely that would be cheaper to implement than rolling out a congestion system and installing more gantries and cameras?. No doubt that installation of these systems means more roadworks on the motorways, thus slowing down the traffic and creating more congestion!.

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I agree something should be done.. But does this slowly path the way for nation wide charging to sneak in through the back door? Being charged to drive at 2am on an empty welsh A road is nothing but feeding the fat cats and it WILL happen if they get their way...

about time !!!