Panic buying warnings ignored across the UK

tax is the problem, Labour party is the problem, peak oil is not the problem!
we all have to buy fuel, but only us british are taxed taxed and vat on top of the tax, reduce tax!!.

I was just wondering what the answer is?

I travel to work day in day out. I can only get there via car. I can't afford not to work! If I try and get public transport (which I dont think is even possible for me) I am sure it would cost me 3 times more than going by car! If they raise petrol prices to be comaparable to public transport costs I would be able to afford to live!

So Greg and Peak Oil whats the answer? I hate my daily journey to work as it's an absolute nightmare! You tell me..whats my choices then? Realistically!

Guys, guys, guys. Lets not make such a big deal about this. The fuel is going to finish one day yes, but not tomorrow. And even if it was to run out tomorrow there are alternatives as an energy sources I.E battery, electricity, air etc etc. I repeat myself, the only problem is getting a new energy source where the minority can make the majority dependant on it hence rolling in the big money.

But, and that's a very big but bigger than the one you find on a megane hatch back, there is absolutely no reason to put up the fuel costs other than greed. As I said earlier imagine Saudi Arabia without oil, where are they going to get money from?

We should concentrate on coming up with alternatives rather than fuel costs. As some of you have clicked I will repeat it again. The reason why fuel price is so high in Great Britain is not because we care for the environment, it is because there are miss managements (balls ups) that need to be rectified and the only way the politicians know how to solve problems is to through money at it. The high fuel prices has only to do with politics. I bet you a few months before the next election the fuel prices will go down just so you can vote them back in.

Look at what U.S and A did. They announced a tax holiday where for a certain length of time in summer they wont charge as much fuel tax in order to give the motorist a brake because they feel their pain. We are being bent over backwards and receiving a good thrusting from the front, I have been trying to open peoples eyes for a while now but it seems they like that position.

I do dislike what the Labour party has done to the motorist but the Tories have not said what they would do about the high fuel duty in this country. I bet people will get a rude awakening if they win. The libdems, God save us all if they get into power.

My fellow motorists are tired of being milked, who ever wants to run this country needs to take that into account or else..... (they might lose)

@ 96

so what about after ?? run on air

i understand droppring the fuel duty but say 0.05 per litre will hurt the powers that be but surley people need to drive to work so we can still fill there pockets with the £

There is no motive, it's just "information". However motorists could save a few "coppers" by buying fuel before the future price level, rather than after. That's all.

Because, Richard W, wiv da oil prices dat bit 'igher, da Labour Party gets a lot more dosh owtovvit from dem taxes, so's dey can spend it on stuff dat makes dem selves look like less of a minger when dey is weally cwap ..bruv.

Or, in other words, with Fuel duty being a very large percentage of the actual price of petrol at the pump and VAT on top of that, the higher the price of a barrel of oil, the higher the amount of tax taken from the consumer, which then becomes available to support a flagging government who after nearly eleven years of government after inheriting an economy that had returned to stability after the fiasco of three day weeks and power cuts and fuel shortages of the previous government in the 1970's, don't actually have anyother pot left to urinate in.

Don't bother slagging off the Torys in response, Maggie in '79 was necessary and I'm as aware as any one else that she went mental in the middle and toward the end when Major got in, just like labour are now that their previous charimatic voter friendly leader has gone.

The only solution is to stop regurgitating the same old rubbish about green taxes and ignore what politicians are telling you (we know that as lieing) and keep swapping the party's out so they can't get so complacent and incomptent like the current labour and previous Tory governments have been.

Also don't be so childish as to try and retake the higher ground by quoting peak oil, regardless of that opinionated, overquoted story of peak oil, what is going on in government now has zero to do with preserving oil stocks or the sanctity of the planet and more about saving a failed government

It is time to change, but all the time you people are raising such obvious propaganda you're doing nobody any favours.

93: Morrisey

Could you please explain Learjet's motive as they are not clear to me. I must be below average.

92: Learjet

Excellent news for the failing Labour government who can pretend they're they're listening and won't put fuel duty up in October because they 'feel our pain' when in reality they're skimming an ever deeper percentage of fuel duty + VAT taxation off the top.

Fuel isn't likely to go down with Labour in power, because the tax burden must increase to pay for the desperate measures required to win back voter confidence after the recent drubbing in the polls by putting police back on the streets again to tackle yobs, by fixing the 10p tax fiasco and all the other yet to be revealed knee jerk policies which the motorist is going to have to pay for in the disguise of a green tax.

Even to the average reader, your motives and insistence on repeating them are transparent sir.

Road Fuel prices will continue to rise. On the "Products Market" for the last week 5-11 May Petrol averaged 38.80p/litre. This translates into 38.80p + 50.35p(Duty) + 2.00p(Delivery) + 5.00p(Station Costs/Profit Split) + 16.83p(Vat) = 112.98p/litre.

Average Pump Price for Petrol could reach 113.00p/litre this coming week.

Diesel surged on the "Products Market" reaching an average of 49.99p/litre for the same week. This translates into 49.99p + 50.35p(Duty) + 2.00p(Delivery) + 5.00p(Station Costs/Profit Split) + 18.76p(Vat) = 126.10p/litre.

Average Pump Price for Diesel could reach 125/126p/litre this coming week.

The "differential" between the two fuels continues to increase, mainly because of the demand from Industry and Transport is greater for Diesel, as refineries struggle to keep up. Also the Pound is weakening against the Dollar. Not a pretty picture for motorists.

Love posts like 84 - did Amie read any of the other posts here? Let's just boycott the pumps - genius. There's a perverse pleasure to be had taking the pulse of the 'sheeple' - as the PO lobby would have it. $126/barrel and it's 101% Gordon Brown's fault.

Oh, and BTPO - you are an absolute cretin.

Tonyw I understand what you are saying but I think you missed my point on post 88. The oil will run out one day yes, but I don't think we should charge the earth as it finishes. Realistically people will force themselves to afford what ever the price of fuel is because it is a matter of getting food on the table.

Let us not punish people for trying to make ends meet. The government doesn't have to have two taxes on fuel.

I know it probably wont happen as OPEC needs to maximise profits before oil runs out. Imagine Saudi Arabia without oil, where are they going to get money?

Tonyw you are on the right track, we need proposals for solutions which is what you did. I applaud you for that.

Let me comment on your proposals.


You said We need:

A big improvement in public transport. France is introducing light rail into all towns.
A return of electric trams or trolleybuses. Electrify all rail - do not order new diesel engines.

I am behind you on this 100%. If there was a train that ran efficiently I would happily commute to work by train. But do remember, I can afford to go to work without a car sometimes. If I am called to site then I need a car. I am sure there are many people that drive on behalf of their employers as a job. But yes, trains would reduce the amount of people using cars.

An immediate ban on sales of gas-guzzlers so that even the rich can't avoid this.

This will not work, we live in a pop star era and they show us that in order to be cool we need these gas guzzlers. That is why someone that wins the lottery will not buy a city smart car. Lets try tackling the entertainment industry.

Impose a 55mph/90kmh speed limit.

This will not work as parcels, people and general goods need to move swiftly, within working hours, from point to point. Even Switzerland that hates cars has a speed limit of 75mph on their motor ways.

Simplify planning permission for renewable generators and encourage renewable generators with a feed-in tariff like Germany.
For all new building ensure they are fully self sufficient for heating, e.g. insulated to German "PassivHaus" standards.

I agree with this. The government is preaching that we should become greener but there is no one to help you when you try i.e hybrid cars, solar panels etc

Apply a tax on electrical devices over their working life that is equal to the cost of offsetting the electricity/CO2 down to the level of the best performing devices. This will encourage people to buy A class devices since now people often tend to just look at the initial price and others who have no interest in the running costs just the up-front costs e.g. landlords, builders.
Make all consumer goods have a 20 year life span and built to be easily repaired not thrown away.

I don't think this will work as what is likely to happen is that the class A goods will become expensive because they know people would want to do the right thing. Taxing problems has been Labours down fall so I hope the conservatives will not punish us in the same way.... or at all for that matter.

I think we should look further into this air pressure technology that one guy in south Africa used to power his car. Again I repeat myself, this is going to be hard because someone out there wants to make millions and is probably spending millions to make sure that the next energy source will make him billions.

Lets keep the suggestions coming.

Thanks Tonyw if other blogists were giving more useful contributions we would have this cracked in no time.

Hi BTPO post #88,

I agree that the world is filled with greedy people you just have to look at all the scams also known as financial bubbles there have been or how tons of people fall for email con tricks. How can someone think they have won a lottery without entering or that someone in a foreign country will send them a huge share of illegal money if only they help them get it out of the country - pure greed.

I completely disagree with you "the fuel will run out one day but not any day soon. Not in our life time or our children's children." Based on stated reserves (and these are probably too high) we have burnt about half the oil. The point is that although it is difficult to believe, we have either recently reached or will very soon reach the point of maximum production; aka Peak Oil (PO). Unfortunately this is a very important difference and most people do not or will not see the difference.

About 80 million barrels a day are pumped and if they stand upright they would more than circle the earth EVERY day. How long do you think we can go on puling out that much? It must be obvious that it can't go on for long.

The major private oil companies no longer control much of the world's oil, for example the worldwide oil production of the largest oil company Exxon now stands at just less than 2.5 million barrels a day. That's right, the world's largest publicly traded oil company accounts for just 3% of the world's oil production. BP's oil production has been stagnant since 2005. Shell's has been falling since 2002.


It is a fallacy to think there are huge untapped fields that will keep output rising or even steady, e.g. tar sands, the clue is in the name sandy and thick goop that requires huge amounts of gas and water to produce; biofuels, seemed a good idea but look what's happened to the price of food; hydrogen, needs more energy to liberate it than is released by burning it. Since it is widely thought that Peak Gas will follow PO between 10 and 15 years later we cannot simply switch from oil to natural gas. No room here to explain all this but easy to look up for those who want. Whether PO has already happened or will happen in a few years is not hugely important. What is important is that we need to reduce our "addiction" as quickly as possible using all the alternatives.

Oil has become ubiquitous because of its great properties, it is energy dense, easy to transport at normal temperatures and has been available in large quantities. Unfortunately there is nothing else that has similar properties. On reaching the point where supply cannot meet demand the price will continually increase and thus price out demand from the poorest. This is even being seen on this blog and the UK is a comparatively wealthy country.

Now here's a killer; as the income of oil exporting countries increases they will strive to have the same "stuff" as developed countries, e.g. large air conditioned cars and their oil consumption will increase thus leading to less oil being available for exports. This is know as the Export Land Model (ELM) and will reduce the amount of oil on the world market thus ratcheting up prices further. I would not be surprised to see $400/barrel by the end of 2009. As I am writing this oil has just hit another all time high of $124.

So, Oil Depletion Protocol, sounds like something out of Doctor who doesn't it? Unfortunately the problem is for real. Shell put it as either like a Scramble, it promises excitement and fierce competition. However, many will crash along the way (i.e. billions die) or like Blueprints, which resembles a cautious ride, with some false starts, on a road that is still under construction. They say "...Regardless of which route we choose, the world’s current predicament limits our room to maneuver. We are experiencing a step-change in the growth rate of energy demand due to rising population and economic development...The world faces a long voyage, governments are in the driver’s seat. And governments will determine whether we should prepare for bitter competition or a true team effort..."

Ever been at war or had food, electric, petrol rationing? The real thing doesn't really compare with a video game. So the difficult way or the very very very hard way?

So what should we do? Here are a few suggestions;

Realise that cars and driving miles to work will soon be history, no I don't know how long this will take, maybe it depends how much you can afford for petrol, how about £4 /litre?
Realise that cheap flights will soon be history; look at the airlines going broke all over the world already.
Contact your favourite politicians and demand that action is taken to reduce our dependence on oil and gas no matter how difficult. Tell them we want to know the truth no matter how bad.

We need:
A big improvement in public transport. France is introducing light rail into all towns.
A return of electric trams or trolleybuses. Electrify all rail – do not order new diesel engines.
An immediate ban on sales of gas-guzzlers so that even the rich can't avoid this.
Impose a 55mph/90kmh speed limit.
Simplify planning permission for renewable generators and encourage renewable generators with a feed-in tariff like Germany.
For all new building ensure they are fully self sufficient for heating, e.g. insulated to German “PassivHaus” standards.
Apply a tax on electrical devices over their working life that is equal to the cost of offsetting the electricity/CO2 down to the level of the best performing devices. This will encourage people to buy A class devices since now people often tend to just look at the initial price and others who have no interest in the running costs just the up-front costs e.g. landlords, builders.
Make all consumer goods have a 20 year life span and built to be easily repaired not thrown away.

I have lots more ideas but we all need to take action and responsibility.
Think hard about this; if the future of all human civilisation depended on me, what would I do, how would I be?

I read through briefly as I didn't have much time but found it quite interesting.

The oil depletion protocol seems to be hinting that by cutting consumption or reducing consumption will help. It will "force us to find other energy sources".

I have come to one conclusion after looking at this and peak oil. The world is filled with greed and corruption.

Correct me if I am wrong but Peak Oil is a theorem that says that we can only get the oil out of the ground at a certain rate and we have now reached the maximum rate. The demand is overtaking this rate and hence we should..... cut consumption?

Ok once upon a time the first world countries were using this energy source to develop themselves. They achieved their goal and life is quite dandy and rosy. Now there are a lot of other countries, currently called third world countries that also want to become developed. Do we deny them this chance because we are trying to cut consumption?

I am still of the opinion that mankind can come up with an alternative energy source. The only problem in it is to find one that the minority can make the majority dependent on and make lots of money in the process.

I ask you G Brown and others to look beyond the depletion of fuel and see that the problem is not trying to slow down the consumption of oil the problem is complying with greedy individuals who want to make money instead of doing it for the "benefit" of mankind.

Let us not put up fuel prices as it is going to run out one day no matter what restrictions you try putting on it. Let us embrace the future in harmony not in poverty.

Re: 86

OK! OK, I've got it!
Cor you do go on.

Peak Oil - A Short History Lesson

Oil was formed in the geological past under well understood processes. In fact, the bulk of current production comes from just two epochs of extreme global warming, 90 and 150 million years ago, when algae proliferated in the warm sunlit waters, and the organic remains were preserved in the stagnant depths to be converted to oil by chemical reactions.

Natural gas was formed in a similar way save that it was derived from vegetable material. It follows that these are finite natural resources subject to depletion, which in turn means that production in any country or region starts following the initial discovery and ends when the resources are exhausted.

The peak of production is normally passed when approximately half the total has been taken, termed the midpoint of depletion.

Oil has been known since antiquity but the first wells were drilled for it in the mid 19th Century in Pennsylvania and the on the shores of the Caspian. The Industrial Revolution was already in progress being driven by the steam engine, fueled by coal.

But then in the 1860s, a German engineer found a way to insert the fuel directly into the cylinder inventing the Internal Combustion Engine, which was much more efficient. At first, it used benzene distilled from coal, before turning to petroleum refined from crude oil, for which it developed an unquenchable thirst.

The first automobile took to the road in 1882 and the first tractor ploughed its furrow in 1907. This cheap and abundant supply of energy changed the world in then unimaginable ways, leading to the rapid expansion of industry, transport, trade and agriculture, which has allowed the population to expand six-fold in parallel.

These remarkable changes were in turn accompanied by the rapid growth of financial capital, as banks lent more than they had on deposit, confident that Tomorrow’s Economic Expansion was collateral for To-day’s Debt, without necessarily recognising that the expansion was driven by an abundant supply of cheap largely oil-based energy.

The peak of oil discovery was passed in the 1960s, and the world started using more than was found in new fields in 1981. The gap between discovery and production has widened since. Many countries, including some important producers, have already passed their peak, suggesting that the world peak of production is now imminent. Were valid data available in the public domain, it would a simple matter to determine both the date of peak and the rate of subsequent decline, but as it is, we find maze of conflicting information, ambiguous definitions and lax reporting procedures.

In short, the oil companies tended to report cautiously, being subject to strict Stock Exchange rules, whereas certain OPEC countries exaggerated during the 1980s when they were competing for quota based on reported reserves. Despite the uncertainties of detail, it is now evident that the world faces the dawn of the Second Half of the Age of Oil, when this critical commodity, which plays such a fundamental part in the modern economy, heads into decline due to natural depletion.

A debate rages over the precise date of peak, but rather misses the point, when what matters — and matters greatly — is the vision of the long remorseless decline that comes into sight on the other side of it. The transition to decline threatens to be a time of great international tension. Petroleum Man will be virtually extinct this Century, and Homo sapiens faces a major challenge in adapting to his loss.

Fact: we are consuming more oil globally and the trend will continue

Fact: it is not a renewable resource in relation to our consumption levels

Fact: countries go to war over control of oil reserves

Fact: oil consumption has a negative impact on the environment

Fact: gas at the pump continues to, generally speaking, increase in price

Fact: many plastics and other trappings of the modern world are made from oil

Fact: the world is running out of easily sourced oil; i.e. production using current technology has peaked, and what oil is left will cost more to pull out of the ground using methods most likely to be even more unfriendly to the environment.

Start preparing for a life of austerity. NOW!

Find local employment. Reduce your debts. Reduce your fuel consumption. Grow your own vegetables or buy from local suppliers. Exercise regularly. Insulate your home. Help your family, friends and colleagues to understand the implications of PEAK OIL.

I am in no way affiliated with Peak Oil or Mr Brown (post 75, not the PM!) but I happen to agree with their view.

There is little doubt that OPEC and speculators will push up prices. Welcome to global capitalism.

The bit I am struggling with is the 'finite resource' bit. For those who don't understand, it's where we consume a resource that is not limitless ie. In theory it will run out.

It seems that sociey does not have the capacity to comprehend such a shift in lifestyle. You see, the thought of us running out of oil simply cannot happen, the Government wouldn't allow it, there are other reserves, there is an alternative...I'm afraid I'm not going to collude with society's ignorance on this one...

There is no convincing evidence either from OPEC, the Government or society (Hence post 74 "We live in an abundant universe where there is plenty for everyone" - convincing evidence I'm sure you'll agree), that we have a secure energy future.

Of course Peak Oil is as welcome as the plague. We live in denial as we cannot comprehend such a fundamental change in lifestyle.

Wake up... oil is finite, we are reaching peak production and the price of oil will continue to rise to unaffordable levels...It's an unwelcome result of our energy dependency and unsustainable growth.

I started receiving the pertrol prices on 5 th March. On this date the cheapest petrol around was 104.9p. Today it is 110.9p!!!!!!! I thought that the government was not going to increase the price of fuel.....instead they just get the petrol companies to do take the blame instead. I wonder how much extra out of the 6p a litre the government are going to get???

It about time we all put our foot down and boycotted the pumps.

Thank you my good man (Mr G Brown)

I will check it out. It will be interesting to see why there is a need to make even more money just because the oil is depleting.

Re:80

Should have mentioned in 81, there is a system eminently suited to your point that remaining oil should be fairly priced and distributed. It is called the Oil Depletion Protocol. It is a very sane method of dealing with the problem.

Why don't you read it and see what you think, and why has it not beEN implemented? It really isn't hard to find, type 'the oil depletion protocol' into google, it'll be there.

Re: 80

Hi Boo,

Were it possible to cite links here it would be so easy to disseminate factual information rather than banging on with "Well I think this is the situation or whatever", discussion is difficult in such an environment where it is next to impossible to provide hard info for people to check for themselves, then form reasoned opinions.

Your statement 'Not in our life time or our children's children' is an example, it is completely inaccurate and very misleading (Unless we cut consumption massively right now!).

For factual info backed with hard references the oildrum is the place to go.

Greg Brown and the boys I agree with you with the point that you are trying to get through. There is only certain amount of fuel in the world and the rate at which it gets replaced "naturally" is slower than the rate we are sucking it out of the ground.

But how much exactly is left? How can you prove that there isn't enough for the next 50 years? Why does the price have to go up as we get less and less of oil left in the world? Would it be bad if the fuel prices ought to stay at the level it is right now until the oil finishes?

You might say it becomes more and more expensive to extract oil since we need to go deeper and deeper to find it. Then why does the government also feel the need to start charging more and more when they are only in it to make money? They are supposed to be for the people.

We need to stop funding miss management and corruption and start doing things properly. As one of the bloggists said we if we ought to take the tax away we would pay less than 50 pence a litre for fuel. So what is the true need to make it so expensive?

Mr Peak Oil and the gang why do you insist on government policies that do not help your cause and arguments. You want people to use less fuel so you feel taxing it is the solution, yet we are buying x million of new cars per year. Why don't you campaign on finding an alternative fuel source and leave the motorist. I assure you the fuel will run out one day but not any day soon. Not in our life time or our children's children.

Try to understand that you are supporting a profit driven cause that is not interested in helping save the planet.

Join us, I will make you guys special honorary members of the motoring clubs that you are more than welcome to join.

I would much rather have posted a link to the following article, but can't so there you go.

Below you will find a reasonable explanation as to our predicament.


Oil is expensive because oil is scarce
By David Strahan
Last Updated: 12:01pm BST 03/05/2008


Polishing the portholes on the Titanic hardly does it justice. This week saw ministers giving an uncanny impersonation of Corporal Jones urging calm over the Grangemouth refinery strike; lorry drivers protesting in Park Lane over a two pence rise in fuel duty; and much righteous indignation over the level of profits reported by Shell and BP. All of which entirely misses the point. These issues are trifling compared to global oil depletion, where there have been several distinct turns for the worse in the last month.

The idea that oil companies are somehow 'to blame' for record oil prices and rising fuel costs is seductive but absurd. For all their power and profits, the international oil companies are in fact in trouble. They may still be swimming in cash, but no longer in oil. Despite vast investment in exploration and production, these days they generally fail to replace the oil they produce each year with fresh discoveries, or even to maintain current levels of output. Shell's oil production has been falling for six years, BP's seems to have peaked 2005, and this week even the mighty Exxon was forced to admit its output dropped 10% in the first quarter of the year.

None of this should come as a surprise since all the evidence now suggests the world is rapidly approaching "peak oil", the point when global oil production goes into terminal decline for fundamental geological reasons. Annual discovery of oil has been falling for over forty years, and now for every barrel we find we consume three. Oil production is already shrinking in 60 of the world's 98 oil producing countries – including Britain, where output peaked in 1999 and has already plunged by more than half. When an individual country peaks it only matters for that country – Britain became a net importer of oil in 2006 – but when global supply starts to shrink the effects could be ruinous for everybody.

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Analysts divide the oil producing world into two halves: OPEC and the rest. There is broad agreement that non-OPEC oil production will peak or at least plateau by about 2010. ExxonMobil chief executive Rex Tillerson said last year that non-OPEC production growth would be all over in "two to three years". That judgment now seems even more certain.

Since the turn of the century non-OPEC oil production has been sustained only by big increases in Russia, the world's largest producer, as the oligarchs that control the industry invested billions refurbishing fields that had been allowed to deteriorate after the collapse of communism. But now the easy gains have gone and growth rates have slumped. This month Leonid Fedun, a senior executive with Lukoil, Russia's second largest oil company, said the country's output had peaked and would never exceed current levels "in his lifetime".

So we now depend on OPEC as never before, and this explains the increasingly shrill pleas from Western officials for the cartel to raise production. But many suspect OPEC could not increase output even if it wanted to – at least not by much – and may also peak soon. There have long been doubts about the true size of OPEC's claimed reserves, which seem to have been falsely – and massively - inflated during the 1980s when members were vying for larger shares in the new quota system. And now there are growing concerns about some of OPEC's most significant producers.

Just last week Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil exporter, announced that all plans to expand oil production capacity beyond 2009 had been shelved. The oil minister justified the decision by claiming that, given the economic outlook, there would be no demand for the additional oil – which is arguable but unlikely. Even the mildly skeptical will suspect the move was not entirely voluntary.

In Nigeria, Africa's biggest oil producer, output has already fallen 20% because of repeated attacks by militants in the Niger delta. But now a recent report by the government's energy advisers has concluded that even if investment is maintained at current levels "total oil and gas production will decline by 30 per cent from its current level by 2015".

The one OPEC member which undoubtedly has large untapped oil resources is Iraq, but here the continuing butchery and failure to agree a new law governing oil and gas production makes any early increase highly unlikely.

In these circumstances it is no surprise that the oil price has soared to record levels – almost $120 earlier this week – nor that many now predict a further pole-vault to $200, including the EU's Energy Commissioner, the President of OPEC, and city analysts Goldman Sachs. What is surprising is the number of apparently intelligent people who cleave to fanciful explanations for the oil price rise, such as speculation and the weakness of the dollar.

No doubt these factors play a part, but the simple fact is that global oil production – including non-conventional sources, biofuels and the kitchen sink - has remained essentially flat since early 2005. For three years the oil supply has been a zero sum game in which if one country consumes more, another has to consume less. Since so much of the demand growth comes from the developing world or OPEC members themselves, oil demand will probably continue to grow despite the gathering recession in the West. It is shortage that makes oil futures so attractive to investors.

And yet the British government's central forecast is that oil will cost $57 per barrel in 2010 and fall to $53 by 2020. This absurd prediction is incomprehensible until you consider the political realities: even more than climate change, peak oil demands that governments confront voters with uncomfortable truths that will impact living standards. In Whitehall, legs will remain crossed and buttocks clenched as politicians and officials pray it doesn't happen in their term of office, or before they draw their inflation-linked pension.

So Gordon Brown's website blithely proclaims "…the world's oil and gas resources are sufficient to sustain economic growth for the foreseeable future", despite all evidence to the contrary. Still, perhaps he can say this with some confidence; the way things are going, his foreseeable future is not all that long.

We can not get away from the global warming problem but I can not see how the higher price of fuel is going solve anything if none of the raised revenue is used to find alternatives or savings in usage. Government used to tax the very rich at 50% tax rate - Now they are taxing ,not just the rich but the poor as well at 55 to 60% as that is what they are racking in, from both fuel tax and VAT on every litre of road fuel we use - Oil companies, the transport and the servicing of fuel stations get about 50p of your £1.20 p/ltr - but this government whilst lining their coffers with glee, spend little or no money to counteract global warming and they are the only people who have the revenue from higher fuel pricing to do so. Yes the oil companies are making very large profits but the size of the business is in many instances larger than some counties total ecomomy - what we need to question is how much government fuel revenue is being ploughed back to combat global warming - I suspect very little. Farmers and members of the Road Haulage industry are going out of business fast and the government do nothing - Soon all our food will be from Europe and further a field, foreign trucks will soon out number british trucks on our roads both doing untold harm to the economy and infrastructure. What is the point of this government increasing Road Fund Vehicle costs for vehicles with a higher CO2 emmission figure as it goes without saying, that those vehicles are already paying more than their fair share as they generally burn more fuel in anycase - This applies to Farmers and other industries who use 4X4 vehicles as essential work horses - Another nail in the coffin of the industry - Is this because Gordon Brown and his lot only see 4X4's on the Chelsea school run or do they just bury their heads in the sand.

Lets dispel this myth once and for all about OPEC and petrol retailers making obscene profits. These are the simple FACTS.

Diesel £1.20 per litre.
Break this down to :-
70% tax (Fuel duty & V.A.T.) = 84 pence leaving 36 pence.
6 pence delivery leaving 30 pence then 6 pence to the retailer (supplying garage) leaves 24 pence. THE ACTUAL COST OF A LITRE OF DIESEL IS 24 PENCE!!!!!! SO TAX accounts for MORE than 3 times the value of the diesel.
Hardly rocket science is it.

And for those of you wondering about petrol:-

£1.10 per litre
70% tax (Fuel duty & V.A.T.) = 77 pence leaving 33 pence.
6 pence delivery leaving 27 pence then 6 pence to the retailer (supplying garage) leaves 21 pence. THE ACTUAL COST OF A LITRE OF PETROL IS 21 PENCE!!!!!! SO TAX accounts for 3 and a half times the value of the petrol.
IT'S THE GOVERNMENT IMPOSED TAX THAT MAKES OUR FUEL SO EXPENSIVE!
Even this peak oil business couldn't hide this fact.

I'm not 'Peak Oil' either but I agree with his/her sentiment just like Greg Brown does.

I also agree that links/URLS would help but it would be better all round if this stopped being a blogging site (with repeated rants of 'Rip off britain' and 'blockade this and blockade that'). It would be much more productive as a true forum and would allow for proper debating. Brendan - how about it??

Re: 72

I don't actually have a multiple personality problem Smithy, I am who I say I am and not Peak Oil. I happen to agree with him, but I am am not he, and frankly I don't blame him for repeating the same post, it's quite hard to get through to some people what a pickle we are in, not helped by numpties like post 73.
Yes Warren, it is an abundant Universe, problem is, we are limited to what is here on Earth, and at present rates of consumption we need another five Earth's. Do the sums, or next time you speak to the mothership ask for more supplies, we are running low on quite alot of stuff these days, you know, rice, wheat, that sort of thing.

It is undoubtedly a shame that we are unable to post links in this blog. it would undoubtedly help to lift the level of discourse from the state of ignorance/denial it wallows in so unashamedly.

I think that we should be doing something about these high prices now all these oil companies are making far to much money.we should stop buying fuel from certain forecourts each week for example don't buy fuel from bp next week,then shell the following week and so on,they would start to lose thousands.

Anyone who beLIEves that we are running out of oil needs to wake up, we are being fed a drip, drip of lies and disinformation about oil reserves and I would go as far to say that a website like this only serves as a place to continue to spread disinformation and confusion. People, start your own research and you will realise that a cartel/corporations are running the show. Oil prices don't just go up on their own, they are pushed up by greedy cartels/corporations, it induces a fear response and then are biggest fears and insecurities are played on. We live in an abundant universe where there is plenty for everyone but while we continue to believe in lack we will be controlled and dictated to. Wake up, wake up, wake up!

Peak Oil (and clones) , you were rumbled for being one person using different names, talking to and agreeing with yourself months ago.

Noobs, ignore him (her, or it) same message every blog (check for yourselves), no significant or valid contribution other than to copy and paste the same ole edited article he read in the Sunday Express in 1995.

The day you come up with something sensible to say peak oil, is the day people stop ignoring you.

In my opinion its in OPEC own interests to keep fuel prices higher. Think about it logically. If I am the only one making bread in a village why should I put the price down just because people cant afford it? They have to come to me anyway. This is the mentality that's not helping the oil prices.

As it was mentioned earlier, there is an alternative solutions out there e.g cars running on air pressure, water etc. The real problem comes in because the way the fuel duty has been designed they need to make money out of the next energy source. This is the FACT that we must all remember instead of trying to constantly increase the prices of fuel.

Anyone that has read a few of these posts can clearly see that people do not take their cars for joy rides anymore. You should not encourage the increase of fuel costs as majority of motorists need to stay on the road in order to get the food to the table.

Whether you fall for peak oil or not the solution for the fuel prices is not to increase it as the economy is more important than an idealistic approach to punish one country in order to save the world.

Re 69:

The weak dollar is a major contributory factor to high oil prices.

There is debate as to whether peak oil is anything to do with the current trend. It doesn't change the simple facts that oil is reaching peak production levels and Peak Oil is inevitable...You have to ask whether OPEC have the production capacity to carry on increasing to our demands...I somehow doubt it...

ITS THE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR NOTHING TO DO WITH PEAK OIL. That posting about guy must be a oil exec, it's a fairy story that allows them not to reduce the price, even when the increases are simultaneous with dollar sliding. Talk among shell staff, 2 weeks ago was of 10p increase, hmm, but the "talks" only fell through 48 before strike, anyone else smell the whiff of coruption yet?

RE: Post 67:

"3) If I hear "Peak Oil" again I'm going to scream! Do people just believe anything they hear?"

People are doing exactly that, choosing not to believe the simple fundamentals underpinning the use of finite resources ie. The more we use, the less there is left. Why is it so difficult to accept?

It doesn't even warrant debate, 'peak oil' will happen. I do agree that there is some confusion as to WHEN we will reach this point. Unless anyone on here has any convincing evidence to suggest that peak oil will not happen within the next 10 years then feel free to post. Until then I shall continue to accept the facts as they stand, and the common sense prognosis that suggests we are close to peak oil production and this is contributing to increasing oil prices worldwide.

People seem to like going on about GREEN at the miniute!
1) How is a electric car greener? You still have to charge it and the power comes from a big burning powerstation!
2) Increasing fuel prices does not help the plannet, it lines the Governments pockets!
3) If I hear "Peak Oil" again I'm going to scream! Do people just believe anything they hear?
4) Any excuse leads to a hike in prices, and no so called shortages, NO CHANGES

WE ARE BEEN RIPPED OFF AND SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE ABOUT IT!!!

Re 65

Try visiting powerswitch, put three w's in front of that, plus a full stop of course, and the d ot co m to follow, the discussion there is more informed.

OK then ,we can all just sit and watch prices go up

That's better isn't it!!!!

Re: 63

Changing things for a week will have no effect.
Fundamental changes to the way we organise our own lives are the only things that will.

The thing is, we don't need to blockade. Everyone knows as soon as the police turn up it's game over.

Surely there must be people in this country who can change the way they do things for a week????

Noticed that the blockade at stanlow only got 10 seconds of coverage on local news this morning.

I live in Stockton and work in Gateshead, so all in all I travel almost 400 miles per week. I have an idea and imagine a lot of other people have thought the same. There are 3 oil companies (I think) and they supply their own chain of garages etc etc, my proposal is to boycott say all supermarket petrol stations for a week. Obviously the other garages will be laughing, but at the same time the supermarket profits will fall and also the oil compny involved. Apparently there are 9,684 petrol stations in the UK, if 1/3 of these didn't get any sales for a whole week, I honestly believe this will have a major impact and in order to get back sales, the only sensible way will be to reduce prices at the pumps. A lot of companies operate on small profit margins or even break even to stay in business, these oil companies have gone to the point of greed and taking advantage of the motorist who have no options. I think this is an option and will work and all of us as individuals have the power to control what we want in numbers. If anyone is interested in my idea or has any other ideas that we can all be inspired by, email me, andymn87@hotmail.com

I don't belong to any organisation, I am a normal working family man who doesn't want to be paying 6 and 7 pound a gallon.
By doing this there will be no need to panic buy, the only panic going on will be the directors of the oil compny we boycott first!!

No one posts here unless they have concerns about fuel, whether that is purely about price and taxation, or more serious future concerns.
That being so, here is an MP sticking his head up above the wall and doing something about it.
Not all politicians are lying, sanctimonious, self serving backstabbing barstewards.

Write or e-mail your MP asking them to support this motion, reproduced below.

Early Day Motion
EDM 1453 ENERGY AND FOOD PRICES AND PEAK OIL29.04.2008


Hemming, John
That this House notes that current movements in energy and food prices are in conformance with the predictions as to what would happen as oil production peaks; and calls for the Government urgently to review its predictions as to when peak oil occurs with a view to determining whether or not urgent policy adjustments are called for.



Damn right policy adjustments are called for!

Tonyw, I think that would make Brown and Darling retire in another country lol.

Yes that would make them listen to us.

BTPO yes, despite just before the local Elections forcing the so called independent Bank of England to publish the spin that the losses in the financial sector will prove to overstated and that from here we should expect some improvement they still got a kicking.

Don't worry the Liberals only picked up a tiny percentage.

Now how about banning Brown and his Darling from every pub in the land to show them how we feel? OK, I know they probably don't go their local but the knowledge that they couldn't stage any more photo shoots would be good.

Labour took quite a beating in the poles. I just wonder what would conservative do different to labour in terms of fuel duty.

Well as long as the Libdems don't win, because they really hate motorists.

Re: 54
"What a silly little a@sehole you are....we live in the real world not you"

Yes, it's clear that you have a grasp of the complexities involved in Peak Oil, your cogent analysis shows a deep understanding of it's implications:

Increasingly chaotic financial markets

Aggressive pursuit of remaining deposits of fossil fuels, fuelled by sovereign states taking control of national reserves, or simply decioding to trade in euros not dollars

Increasing control of populations by central Governments (Heavy taxation is the tip of the iceberg)

Food shortages with rising costs

Water shortages with rising costs

Increasing civil disturbance, such as some of the suggestions on this forum actually being carried out, or think of what happened after the last fuel uprising, leading to agressive legislation - see increasing control of populations above(Those anti-terrorism laws aren't really if you care to study them, they are about locking ANYONE up)

Rising costs of energy supplies

and so on, clever of you to have spotted that ALL of the above is happening now to some degree or another, not in some projected future, and all are symptoms of Peak Oil.

Frankly, I am surprised you didn't suggest, as Peak Oil (The poster) has, that it is a good time to take sensible precautions to protect yourself and your family, including:

"Find local employment. Reduce your debts. Reduce your fuel consumption. Grow your own vegetables or buy from local suppliers. Exercise regularly. Insulate your home."

After all, this is perfectly sound advice whether you subscribe to Peak Oil or not, nothing to lose, everything to gain. Rely on yourself and your neighbours, not Government. Government does not have your best interests at heart.

Yes i understand that oil is slowly running out.
Yes i understand the arguments regarding global warming.
What i can't understand is why a government, that we employ ourselves, will not listen to its employers. Why is their answer to this problem to take more money off us and give us nothing in return.
I am a shift worker, working to keep the railways running. With my shift start and finish times i can not use public transport to get to work, however it is getting to the point that i will not be able to afford to go to work, what then?
The old saying 'born free, taxed to death' must be this governments moto.
We need the media on our side, we cannot keep saying that these fuel prices are due to global market fuel costs, it's not, we are being abused by the people in power and must make a stand soon

Reply to "Peak Oil.

What a silly little a@sehole you are....we live in the real world not you

RE:51
You forgot to mention that drilling under those extreme conditions also b ggers up the diamond drill bits.
Never mind, there will be a technofix invented shortly....
RE:52
The USA is not quite the motoring paradise you make out, they face exactly the same depletion problems we all do, sadly their answer is not to invest in renewables, but to insist that it is 'their' oil under other peoples sand very forcibly. Add to this a financial meltdown on a scale not yet fully realised, a bolshy 'Don't mess with the American Way Of Life' attitude from the majority of the population, the mass growing of biofuels on food producing land to feed their unhealthy obsession with cars and you don't get a pretty picture, oh, and let's not leave out the 'terrorist' threat nonsense.

Actually, not that different here is it?

This will really upset you all so sorry, but just spoken to my daughter whose living in the USA. She 19, and when living in Britain she was paying out £1500 a year insurance on a very old fiesta plus the huge expense of driving lessons/test. She "up sticks" went to the states and now drive a 4L pick up truck, and the insurance is $300 per year!!!!! (can't blame her) although I did have a pop on behalf of us all when she was complaining that the "Gas" had gone upto $4 per gallon lol. Also to make there eccomany right, it seems that in their state all residents will be recieving a $600 tax relief, to stablize things!!! make you wonder about rip of Britain eh, Im waiting for Mr Darling to personnally pop round with a £300 rebate after either siting in the traffic jam I sit in every morning for 30mins (on an A road) or by the over expensive train travel. Either way I'm not fussed but I won't hold my breath!!!!!!!!!

Hi Jon Paul post #50,
"However I'm sure BP or such have just found a massive Oil reserve underground somewhere in the world,

so not really a problem for now is it?" ROTFLOL BP or such somewhere - yeah sure and it will be run

by fairies and pixies.

You might be thinking about the recent bit of share pumping by the Brazilian oil guy talking about the

Carioca field that was quickly slapped down, so here are some facts to entertain you:

Tapping this oil will require equipment that can withstand 18,000 pounds per square inch of pressure

and pump oil at 260C - this equipment has not yet been invented. Until then it is the oil will remain

locked under the sea. Pumping oil from the field, parts of which are 32,000 feet (10,000 meters) below

the ocean's surface, will require drilling almost twice as far down as the world's deepest producing

offshore well. Engineers will have to overcome temperatures that range from 260C to near freezing

above the ocean floor. Exxon Mobil abandoned a Gulf of Mexico project that would have been the deepest

well after pressure and heat shut down the venture in August 2006.

Layers of salt rock will also increase the challenge because the crystals absorb seismic waves used to

pinpoint oil deposits. If you can't identify the location of the oil properly, you're going to waste a

LOT of money when you drill the hole in the wrong spot. Similar drilling by Exxon and Chevron in the

Gulf of Mexico cost $180 million to $200 million for EACH well.


Electricity production, now I completely agree with you that we need to quickly switch our production

from gas since it is running out and causing Climate Catastrophe which together with Peak Oil are the

two greatest problems we have. Either of them has the potential to destroy civilization and both seem

to be happening around the same time so we have to try and get it sorted now even if our so called

“leaders” are asleep on the job.


Electricity is needed for civilization to function, e.g. pump water and sewage just to name two. We

could survive with reduced oil but not with greatly reduced electricity. The research and

implementation of tidal and all other renewables needs to be ramped up, we don’t need more media

studies graduates but more scientists and engineers working on this.

A billion for the Bristol barrage – peanuts let’s do it now. Gordon Clown has very kindly
quadrupled Britain's aid budget from £2.1 billion in 1997 to nearly £9.1 by 2011 he’s very generous

with OUR money.

We can’t afford to let nimbys prevent on-shore wind farms just so their views can be preserved. We

need the lights to stay on. Off-shore costs much more and takes much longer to build and repair.