21.10.08 Price cuts create biggest ever fuel price gap

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Have you noticed the fuel price gap widening in your area?


The price war driving down the cost of fuel in the UK has created the biggest ever gap between the highest and lowest priced fuel, according to data from PetrolPrices.com.

The lowest priced unleaded, as a result of retailers slashing prices over the last week week, is 96.9p. However, the most expensive is 121.9p - a full 25p more. For diesel the spread is also 25p. The cheapest diesel is now 107.9p, and the most expensive 132.9p. A 'normal' price gap is around 17-19p.

Petrol stations have been slashing prices recently as a result of a dramatic fall in oil prices. Last week was the first time the price of unleaded dropped below £1 a litre since December 2007.

However, smaller stations are typically unable to respond to falling oil prices as quickly as big chains, meaning that there is a bigger difference in prices than ever before. The previous record price gap of 20p and 22p for unleaded and diesel respectively was last set on August 12th.

The price gap over short distances has also increased. One example from PetrolPrices.com shows a 15p difference in unleaded over just 5 miles in Northampton. In London, the gap is 20p over just 2 miles. There are similar examples across the country.

A motorist shopping at the most expensive station in London would spend an extra £528* a year on fuel compared to a smart motorist who found the cheapest station in the area using PetrolPrices.com.

It's not often drivers hear good news about petrol prices, but fuel for less than £1 a litre certainly is that. However, not all stations are able to cut their prices as quickly because they bought fuel at a higher price.

When prices are falling the cheapest stations change every day, so drivers should shop around online to avoid getting caught out.

Have you noticed the fuel price gap widening? What's the price difference in your area?

*Based on 55 litre car filling up 4 times a month.

Your Comments

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Its all very interesting hearing what price varios stations are charging up & down the country. The point that everyone seems to have missed is that all supermarkets are interested in is making money. They will only reduce the price of fuel if they think it is in theyre interests to do so!

This could be a local price war, or a lever to get more people into theyre stores. The best way to keep prices as low as possible is to vote with your feet (wheels) and encourage every driver to only buy from the cheapest stations in there area.

Interestingly the supermarkets are often not the cheapest, but many people like sheep blindly head for their local Tescos in the misguided beleif that the fuel, bread, and beer is bound to be cheaper than their local shops. "stack em high"

Posted by Dave Robbie, 29th October 2008 2:31pm

Why this price gap between diesel and petrol getting bigger per litre?

Posted by Steve Blake, 29th October 2008 2:33pm



29th October 2008

Falling oil production in coming years is greater risk to the UK than from the threat posed by terrorism, according to a new report from an industry taskforce.

The report from the Peak Oil group warned that the problem of declining availability of oil will hit the UK earlier than generally expected - possibly within the next five years - as producer countries start to scale down the pumping of dwindling supplies.

But Peak Oil chairman Jeremy Leggett, who is also the executive chairman of alternative energy company Solarcentury, said Wednesday it was not too late for politicians to make the decisions to protect the UK from the impact of reduced oil availability.

"Society has become oil-dependent to its rivets. What we are warning of is a peak in production beyond which will be a fall, potentially a rapid fall, and that will mean a global energy crisis if the analysis is correct," Leggett said.

The report comes as Britain is becoming more reliant on important energy sources as oil and gas supplies from the UK sector of the North Sea have been dwindling for the past six years.

Some analysts have also suggested that global oil production has already peaked.

The chairman of Peak Oil argued that the oil industry and oil institutions have been "irrationally exuberant about their ability to meet demand going forward, in much the same way that the financial institutions."
"When they fail to meet demand, many countries will experience this as an energy crisis. Some will experience it as an energy famine, as producers start to withhold exports," he warned.

"What we are saying is let's get this right. This crisis is being anticipated. Let's do something about it, because we can," Leggett said in an interview with BBC Radio Four's flagship current affairs programme, Today.

Posted by Peak Oil, 29th October 2008 7:44pm

Hi its great to see prices down but please dont all drive around with full tanks we need to show we still are hard up and want prices to come down more. letsdrive the price down further less demand more price cuts
do you agree?

Posted by Tanver Khan, 29th October 2008 10:53pm

ITS rising again near $70 a barrel so it will go back up most likey i dont care about logics or maths these people are greedy gets simple as that and as for food prices coming down you been to you local asda or co i dont think so milk is steep ie packet of cheesy pasta was 70 odd pence last year 96 last week now £1.00 dead bacon asda bransabout 250 so dont buy food is cheaper because it aint

Posted by Dazz, 30th October 2008 11:52am

"However, smaller stations are typically unable to respond to falling oil prices as quickly as big chains" Funny that, how come they were able to match them penny for penny when the price was going up? Is it just me or are these petrol retailers just profiteering. When the prices were soaring over the summer these petrol stations were putting up prices on a daily basis now that the price of oil has fallen all we are hearing is "it takes time to filter through", my local Shell has been stuck at 99.9 for over a week and a half and another Shell less than 4 miles away is still a staggering 105.9? figure that out if you will. ASDA 20 miles away is 94.9 It seems to me that these petrol retailers need to be made to reduce the price in line with what it costs. As for fuel tax it is just a complete and utter disgrace that we are being ripped-off like this by what passes for a govt. in this country.

Posted by Eddie Appleby, 30th October 2008 12:05pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

with the current exchange rate of the pound to dollar and a barrel of oil at average of 65 dollars I remember the litre price on unleaded at least 10p cheaper than today 18 months ago. Are we suffering from profit taking again. I see the government have made small noises on reducing the pump price, but when you recover 60% revenue + VAT per litre why would you push it. Got to get the money back for the bank bail out from somewhere.

Posted by Haydn Morgan, 31st October 2008 1:27pm

Price differentials on diesel or petrol are all very well and yes we all notice the increase between the cheapest and the most expensive has widenened , however, what would be interesting is the difference between petrol and diesel. The last time petrol was around 96p or 97p per litre diesel was 6p or 7p more. Now this differential has widenend to 11p-13p. Someone's coining it in and is at it. It would be most interesting if your web site show us a graph of the changing relationship between diesel and petrol say over the last 12months. That would show another trick the petrol companies are up to.

Posted by Pleasantfield, 31st October 2008 4:00pm

Sainsburys Petrol station in Horsham West Sussex is closed today due to "technical difficulties". Staff say they don't know when they will get next delivery

Posted by R, 1st November 2008 10:00am

Tesco Stafford have ran out of Super Unleaded 97. Spoke to the staff and they said they are having the Super Unleaded 99 put in on the 4th November. I've heard this is meant to be one of the best Super Unleaded's and at only 5p more a litre than normal unleaded. Am i right?

Posted by Alistair, 1st November 2008 11:41am



Output from the world's oilfields is declining faster than previously thought, the first authoritative public study of the biggest fields shows.

Without extra investment to raise production, the natural annual rate of output decline is 9.1 per cent, the International Energy Agency says in its annual report, the World Energy Outlook, a draft of which has been obtained by the Financial Times.

The findings suggest the world will struggle to produce enough oil to make up for steep declines in existing fields, such as those in the North Sea, Russia and Alaska, and meet long-term de­mand. The effort will become even more acute as prices fall and investment decisions are delayed.

The IEA, the oil watchdog, forecasts that China, India and other developing countries' demand will require investments of $360bn each year until 2030.

The agency says even with investment, the annual rate of output decline is 6.4 per cent.

The decline will not necessarily be felt in the next few years because demand is slowing down, but with the expected slowdown in investment the eventual effect will be magnified, oil executives say.

"The future rate of decline in output from producing oilfields as they mature is the single most important determinant of the amount of new capacity that will need to be built globally to meet demand," the IEA says.

The watchdog warned that the world needed to make a "significant increase in future investments just to maintain the current level of production".

The battle to replace mature oilfields' output could even offset the decline in demand growth, which has given the industry - already struggling to find enough supply to meet needs, especially from China - a reprieve in the past few months.

The IEA predicted in its draft report, due to be published next month, that demand would be damped, "reflecting the impact of much higher oil prices and slightly slower economic growth".

It expects oil consumption in 2030 to reach 106.4m barrels a day, down from last year's forecast of 116.3m b/d.

The projections could yet be revised lower because the draft report was written a month ago, before the global financial crisis deepened after the collapse of Lehman Brothers.

All the increase in oil demand until 2030 comes from emerging countries, while consumption in developed countries declines.

As a result, the share of rich countries in global demand will drop from last year's 59 per cent to less than half of the total in 2030.

This is the clearest indication yet that the focus of the industry on the demand - not just the supply - side is moving away from the US, Europe and Japan, towards emerging nations.

(Article first published by FT.com)

Posted by Peak Oil, 2nd November 2008 7:59am

Re: 85

Until this sort of thing is reported correctly in the likes of the Mirror and the Sun, discussed on soaps and so on, I do believe you are banging your head against a brick wall.
It isn't as if it's just Peak Oil either, it is Peak Everything.
The people here aren't joining up the dots, even though they are everywhere, begging to be joined up.
Who ever asks the question "Why can't I get cod and chips anymore?". It doesn't seem to occur that it is because they have been fished to the point of extinction.
Sheeple. What on earth to do, they can't remain sedated forever - can they?

Posted by Greg Brown, 2nd November 2008 5:41pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

The Matrix springs to mind, funnily enough

Posted by Paul Hanczuk, 3rd November 2008 8:27am

Its odd to see people flaming people such as "Peak Oil" where he actually points out several reasonable issues regarding lowering your petrol prices, albeit in an obvioius "green agenda". Those flamers obviously do care about the price of their petrol otherwise they wouldn't be on this site, so why flame in such as child-ish manner?

Posted by Dee, 3rd November 2008 12:52pm

diesel is £1.04 ltr at Beaumont filling station on the Pershore road in Cotteridge Birmingham.
Will it get below the £1.00 mark before the end of the year or is there a going to be another sudden shortage?
Peak oil is so boring he makes me slee zzzzzzz zzzzz zzzz

Posted by Steve M, 3rd November 2008 5:21pm

Unleaded at ASDA Marina @ 94.9p per litre on 2.11.08

Posted by Shabbir Mohamedali, 3rd November 2008 8:48pm

just thought id point out it has been proven that peak oil has not been reached in many countrys, In iraq there is 7 trillion dollars worth of oil that has not been drilled out. Infact there is so much it still seps out of the ground and that is just 1 spot out of many that still has not been found yet.

Posted by Martin, 3rd November 2008 9:16pm

Re:91

I expect someone will be along shortly to explain that whether or not oil has peaked has become an irrelevance in great detail, but that won't be me.

What is far more relevant is that it seems that the real problem is going to be whether or not supply can meet demand. Presently in the First World there is substantial demand destruction going on (Think recession, depression, whatever). If there should be an end to this, say in a couple of years, demand will go up. The supply won't be there - see 85.

The present low oil prices mean that oil companies/state controlled oil companies feel no particular need to drill/explore in areas that are difficult to reach or process, such as tar sands, deep sea, polar etc., as at present prices they will lose money to do so.

Posted by Greg Brown, 3rd November 2008 10:20pm

According to the homepage, the cheapest unleaded in the UK is 89.9p/l. Where? The cheapest I can find for miles is 94.9. And it's not as if I live in the sticks or on the Isles Of Ripoff! I live in the Midlands and we usually get pretty reasonably priced fuel. Where is this sub-90p miracle happening?!

Posted by Spencer B, 3rd November 2008 11:27pm

Diesel cars are up to 20 per cent more fuel efficient than petrol cars with greatly reduced CO2 emissions; diesel-car owners pay £000 or so more for these vehicles and the time to recoup that start-up cost is stretched by any increase in the petrol-diesel price differential; and diesel is the fuel that powers much of business transport and travel. So why has the gap between petrol and diesel become so wide and not reducing. The financial benefit of a diesel vehicle over petrol is now meaning a much higher mileage necessary for its viability. If CO2 emissions on diesel is lower surely the government should be promoting diesel and bring the differential down.

Is anything being done to address this issue?

Posted by Ian Deakin, 4th November 2008 8:34am

THE LAST TIME OIL WAS $60 A BARREL WAS IN 1995 - Petrol was at tops 79.9p a litre and Diesel 98.9p a litre so for goodness sake WHY ARE WE OVER PAYING - This stinks what we are paying now - Dont use the excuse of a weak dollar because it was weak in 2005!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by Gary Poole, 4th November 2008 1:19pm

Sorry I meant 2005 to my last statement

Posted by Gary Poole, 4th November 2008 1:22pm

your question will be answered as soon as peak oil can find something to copy from and attempt to sound educated.
The over paying could be that the govt. wanted to raise pump prices by about 20/25p ltr, so by raising it by 40p then gradually lowering it again makes us all happy and glad to be over-charged.
Even DickTurpin had morals, unlike our greedy robbing Pm.

Posted by Steve M, 4th November 2008 1:49pm

RE 95 No it wasn't and No it wasn't

Posted by Steve The Poor Garage Owner, 4th November 2008 9:18pm

ITN has announced the Ulmo tree found in the South American Patagonian rainforest grows a fungus that naturally produces hydrocarbon fuel similar to diesel.
It can apparently convert plant cellulose directly into bio-fuel called myco-diesel.
crops have to be converted into sugar and fermented before being used as a useful fuel.
But with this new discovery the sugar/fermentation process can be skipped.
Almost 430 million tonnes of plant waste are produced world wide each year.
"although the fungus makes less myco-diesel when it feeds on cellulose compared to sugars, new developments in fermentation technology could help improve the yeild"
I know this does'nt help today, but it could in the future.

Posted by Steve M, 5th November 2008 11:09am

asda to drop petrol to 92.9p, a step in the right direction, but we cant settle until all road fuel is below 85p litre!

Posted by Richard, 7th November 2008 10:43am

We cannot trueley say what the cost of fuel is!
Why?
Because money has no set value.
The free market is as far away as the open road.
Big brother is in control.
PUDLOG

Posted by Eric Goldup, 8th November 2008 10:41pm

Whilst reading the Sunday Papers I have notices that the price of Crude has dropped below $60 a barrel. The last time that it was this low in 2006 the price of fuel was 84.9p unleaded and 90.9p for desiel. Let me ask this question why is the price of fuel at least 10p dearer now? Should the government and fuel companies drop their prices even further.

Posted by Dougie, 9th November 2008 10:16am

The price of petrol may well be falling fast, but the difference between the price of petrol and diesel is growing ever wider , why ? --- before the recent price rises the gap was only 4 or 5 p per litre now its 12 or 13p !!

Posted by Andy Presnail, 9th November 2008 4:29pm

Why have Asda dropped the price of petrol again but NOT diesel?
It seems the diesel drivers are subsidising the petrol drivers all the time!!
Do we have to boycott Asda service stations to show our contempt for their
arrogance of diesel drivers?
As usual "Rip off Britain" is alive and thriving.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 10th November 2008 12:13pm

The fact that OPEC wants to halt production just to "stabilize" oil prices while making millions shows that we are not in the "peak oil" stage as some would like you to believe.

There is a big difference between profiteering and peak oil.

Enjoy motoring and stop scaring people.... people ;)

Posted by Boo To Peak Oil, 10th November 2008 12:30pm

The reason oil prices have dropped is because of the recession and dramatic demand destruction in developed contries. Unfortunatley, when we move out of recession in 2010/11 the oil may not be there to meet the demand. Prices will shoot back up again. With oil prices soaring it may knock us back into recession again, creating demand destruction once more. As prices drop, economies will recover and up goes the oil price again... and so on.

Why is this? I'm afraid that what Peak Oil and Greg Brown are saying is true - peak oil has been reached or is about to be reached in the very near future. It is anticipated that by 2012 demand will be dramatically outstripping supply due to the simple facts of geology - there isn't the oil there to pump!

Many oil exporting countries have reached their peak (the UK in 1999) and the world as a whole will be peaking iminently. The focus should be on more efficient cars (dramatically more efficient) and weaning ourselves off oil asap. Thankfully it looks like Obama has got it - maybe he'll show unrivalled leadership. If the US can do it, then we certainly can! Electric cars are showing immense promise and by 2012 there should be a good selection of mid-range cars to choose from. With high oil prices these will see rapid adoption. Maybe we can change things in time?

Posted by Ben Vanheems, 10th November 2008 2:12pm

Oh, and don't panic about the future. Be proactive and seek solutions within your own community. Check out 'transitions towns' in Google and find out what's going on in your county.

Posted by Ben Vanheems, 10th November 2008 2:14pm

I'm new to these pages but reading through all the posts this "peak oil " bloke
seems to get on most peoples t*t.
We mustn't get in the way of free speech but we can only hope he falls off his soap box very soon.
And why oh why does he have to have full page comments when a simple "I agree" or "I disagree" would do. We're all getting his message.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 10th November 2008 3:38pm

OilCo's make thier money by profiting internally at every stage of the process.
Exploration, drilling, refining, distribution. Then they retail at low profit margins so they can claim they make little profit. Also distribution works by charging the forecourts based on taking full tanker loads of one product. Take only part load, and you pay a premium. Next they band (or load) delivery costs depending on distance from THEIR distribution depot. HOWEVER, cross company agreements allow them to deliver from the nearest depot, even if that is a rival company, and still charge the forecourt as if they delivered from thier own, more remote depot. So a forecourt maybe 50 miles from thier parent distributor may get fuel delivered from a competitor distributor 25 miles away, but charged as if it were delivered from 50 miles away.

Posted by Ron Murch, 10th November 2008 4:43pm

well now we see the true colours and most proberbly what we all suspected all along that we really are all being ripped off by the petrol retailers and oil companys.and government taxs alike,when oil per barrel falls over 60% and yet we are still even now paying over £1 per litre for fuel,and the reductions to date have been slow and begrudgeing.there should have been a investigation years ago.

Posted by David Mellor, 10th November 2008 6:34pm


Oil production will peak in the period between 2011 and 2013, causing rising fuel prices and devastating damage to the global economy, a new report has found.

The oil age is coming to an end, and sooner than most people may think. The shift to a new energy age won't be easy, and the world's economies will have to act sooner rather than later to prevent the global economy from being severe damaged -- that is the warning from a new report issued by the U.K. Industry Taskforce on Peak Oil and Energy Security, an alliance of eight British companies drawn from across the economic spectrum.

The report, titled "The Oil Crunch: Securing the UK's Energy Future," highlights the problems the global economy will face after oil has peaked and examines energy alternatives to best sustain the post-oil period. It claims peak oil is a much greater threat to Britain than terrorism and foresees oil prices much higher than this summer's $147-a-barrel peak. The report is the first multi-company alarm bell to be sounded on peak oil, an issue that has divided the energy world for decades.

OPEC governments and some oil companies argue that because of existing reserves, new findings and technological advancements, crude oil production will meet growing demand for decades to come. Others, and they have become more numerous and vocal, argue that an oil peak -- after which production will steadily and inevitably fall -- is imminent. This now includes even big oil officials.

"I think that easy oil and easy gas -- that is, fuels that are relatively cheap to produce and very easy to get to the market -- will peak somewhere in the coming 10 years," Jeroen van der Veer, chief executive officer of Shell, said in June 2008.

The report sought two expert opinions on oil supply, the first from Chris Skrebowski of Peak Oil Consulting, an industry expert known as a leading advocate of the early peak scenario, and the second from oil and gas giant Royal Dutch Shell.

Skrebowski predicts that global oil production will peak in the period between 2011 and 2013 and then decline steadily, with harder-to-extract reserves failing to fill the gap in time to avoid a supply crunch. "After 2010, meeting any incremental oil demand will be very difficult as the incremental supply is insufficient," Skrebowski writes in his analysis. "After 2010, prices are likely to rise strongly to reconcile available supply and demand." He also warns that the entire system may crumble much sooner if a number of huge, long-established oil fields go into terminal decline simultaneously.

Shell, in turn, foresees oil production to rise during the next years and then flatten by 2015; with the help of unconventional sources like tar sands, production will remain on a plateau until the 2020s, Shell predicts.

"We find it of great concern that both our risk opinion-providers agree that the age of 'easy oil' is over. If so, fast-growing alternative energy supplies become imperative, even if production flattens in 2015 as Shell suggests," the task force said, adding that, based on its own research and analysis, it was finding Skrebowski's steady decline theory "highly probable" and the collapse option "possible."

This is not because the world is running out of oil. But it's running out of cheap oil -- crude that is easily extracted and refined.

"Only the hard-to-find (oil) remains and all too often is found in the most challenging environments and the least attractive countries. While the 'easy oil' can readily be turned into large production flows to meet demand, the difficult, unconventional oils can only be mobilized slowly and expensively," the report found.

And the hard-to-find oil won't be there in time and in enough quantity to offset falling production of cheap oil and growing consumption in the developing countries.

The countries that still have reserves of cheap oil may then alter their behavior, according to Lord Ron Oxburgh, a former Shell chairman.

Countries like Saudi Arabia or Russia are "starting to regard their shrinking oil and gas resources as something to be husbanded," Oxburgh wrote in the report's foreword. "King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia recently described his response to new finds: 'No, leave it in the ground ... our children need it.' In other words, even those who have less expensive oil may wish to exploit it slowly and get the best possible price for it."

The report therefore advises the British government to take peak oil more seriously, also because its economic impact will hit Britain (and the rest of the world) as early as the next three to five years -- so earlier than climate change.

The task force, which includes the firms Arup, First, Foster & Partners, Scottish and Southern Energy (OTCPK:SOCI), Solarcentury, Stagecoach, Virgin and Yahoo!, has a series of concrete proposals to soften the crash after oil has peaked. The group wants

a) governments and companies to be more transparent about oil reserves;

b) governments to combine efforts to deal with oil depletion and climate change in the post-Kyoto climate negotiations;

c) governments to draw up their own national response plans to peak oil;

d) governments to push energy savings and renewable energy sources.

e) The world's governments need to act as quickly as possible, the report says.

"If we wait until an energy supply crisis is upon us before becoming serious about implementing sustainable solutions, in the ensuing dislocation we could no longer be able to muster the resources required."

Posted by Peak Oil, 10th November 2008 6:40pm

Re: 111

There are some remarkably witless contributions on this blog (108 - call me a sheeple, I'm lovin' it), and 111 isn't one of them.
It is simply amazing that a civilization can be so clearly unravelling (financially, ecologically, socially and energywise) and yet there still be so many who totally refuse to contemplate anything that isn't business as usual.

A question for Peak Oil - do you post here as a wind up or because you have an altruistic nature?

And hi BTPO, how's it hanging? (PS Peak Oil is real, read 111, the report it refers to is one of many. It's very real).

Posted by Greg Brown, 10th November 2008 7:50pm

Re 111
See what I mean.
Long winded & repetitive as usual.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 10th November 2008 10:00pm

re 111
read posts 104, 109 and 110, they are what this site is all about!!
The oil companies predict there is no longer an easy oil option.
If I wanted to totally maximise profit on production, then a "shortage" would be the logical answer.
Strange how some "experts" predict a shortfall while others offer proof that oil is a naturally occurring event that is replaced/produced by mother nature.
Either way, the problem today is profiteering by greedy oil bosses who are exploiting the general public.
Mr Peak Oil, have you ever tried thinking for yourself, or do you only know how to cut, copy, paste? boring.

Posted by Steve M, 11th November 2008 8:56am

If Peak Oil is 'long winded and repetitive' it's only because he is trying to warn others of the impending energy supply crunch. Just type in 'peak oil' into Google and read up about it. Even if the implications are only half as bad as stated we should be sitting up and listening with a keen ear.

There's always the likelihood that when faced with bad news we'll go into denial and try to find someone (the oil companies, the Government etc) to pin the blame on. I suppose that's fair in away - they've hardly been coming up with comprehensive solutions. But at least if you arm yourself with the knowledge of what's going to unfurl over the next decade you can position yourself to come out the other end. Let's see it as an opportunity!

Posted by Ben Vanheems, 11th November 2008 9:00am

Peak oil works on the basis that if you say something often enough to
whoever will listen then it must be true.
Peak oil:-
Not someone who'll let the truth get in the way of a good story.

Incidently reading through the numerous posts we were led to believe that we had reached "peak oil" however now we are told (111) that it will be between 2011 & 2013. They aren't even singing from the same hymn sheet'

Whatever the cost of diesel and petrol, the price at the pumps should be similar to each other. We are being ripped off big time by the oil companies & petrol retailers.
There are none as blind as those who WILL NOT see.
(Watch peak oil hijack that quote).
One final observation
Oil is traded in U.S.Dollars and when the pound was worth 2 dollars there was very little mention that we could buy more for our pound and our petrol/diesel still went up in price but now our pound is worth barely 1.50$
they're singing a different tune and claim that's the reason why petrol/diesel
hasn't come down as much as it shouldhave.
Who said you can't fool all of the people all of the time.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 11th November 2008 11:36am

If you shop at Tesco, they are still doing the old spend over £50 and get 5p per litre off fuel. Don't just fill up your car straight away. The vouchers are usualy valid for a few weeks so leave them till the last few days. I recently filled up at Tesco (Swindon) and the price had dropped since to 92.9p. I ended up filling up for 87.9p! Cheers Tesco!

Posted by Sam Beasant, 11th November 2008 9:03pm

i own a jet garage in me13 area & me12 but im selling fuelcheaper than my rival garages but this web site dosn't up dated daily why?

Posted by Star Service Centre, 12th November 2008 10:08am

this web site will update from info received from fuel card customers, if you have no fuel card customers it will take longert to update as a manuel update will be done. i read this on the opening page.

Posted by Richard, 12th November 2008 11:47am

RE tesco vouchers,
The same can be done with the shell vouchers, every penny counts.

Bandidoz.
where are you?
Hope everything is ok.
Steve.

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 12:09pm

Hi Steve

I'm still lurking - just had nothing to add recently....

Posted by Bandidoz, 12th November 2008 1:17pm

Good to know.

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 2:35pm

"Can I suggest we start reporting peakoil's posts in these blogs.

The more we report him, the sooner he will be banned."

There are a million names I could call you in the english dictionary, or any other dictionary for that matter, but you probably wouldn't understand them, especially seeing as you're too stupid to realise Peak Oil has got a SERIOUSLY good point, Do you not even realise the reason you're basically bathing in cheap oil at the moment is because of the effort everyone else has put in to stop using oil so much? Falling demand my friend, Basic economics, Falling demand at a certain supply level means cheaper oil.

And I find it ironic how everyone is saying "THE GOVERNMENT IS GREEDY, THEY'RE TAXING US FOR EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT!"

Well to you, I say this.
You all have more greed than any government official will ever have.
The fact this very site even exists PROVES this.
You're all looking for the cheapest petrol, To save yourselves money so you can do what? Spend it on something else. Exactly.

Stop focusing on the price! Look at the (diminishing/diminished) oil supplies!

Posted by Cameron Wilby, 12th November 2008 5:47pm

RE 123
Are you suggesting that the 30% fall in house prices, 20% rise in food prices and god knows the % rises in fuel in the near future that all the people who post on this blog are greedy?
Are you implying that a below inflation pay rise is greed?
Is buying my children slightly cheaper clothes than last month a sign of greed?
Do you NEVER cross the road to another shop if a bottle of pop or a packet of loo rolls is cheaper?
Are you honestly saying you NEVER do anything to save a few quid here and there?
Have you so much money or so little morals that you will line the pockets of the nearest retailer even if it costs you more?
I think you will find most people on this site are normal hardworking citizens who actually care about how much things cost and will save where possible.
YES,,, THIS GOVT. IS "GREEDY, TAXING US FOR EVERY EVERYTHING WE'VE GOT"
Open you blinkered eyes and smell the coffee (its cheaper at Tesco)

17B687

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 6:16pm


This is the typical response I was hoping for #124.

I'm not stupid, nor am I rich! Anything but! I don't go shopping at the higher priced supermarkets just to prove a point against people like you, Heck, Its human nature to find something cheaper and buy it!

But to compare a COMPLETELY renewable supply, and something that is actually beneficial to search for cheaper prices such as food, housing, child's clothing, or whatever we do actually need to spend our money on, to a completely UNrenewable supply such as fossil fuels is a dim witted and blind comparison!

Let me create a situation for you. (And I'm not saying that this could ever happen!)
Oxygen has now reached a peak point. We are slowly running out of oxygen on Planet Earth, so we are now charged to prevent us using so much.

Recently, oxygen has seen soaring prices due to this peak. So everyone decides to do things that require less oxygen.

So, as demand has fallen against supply, The price of oxygen must now fall, and fall it does! Everyone can now afford to carry on using oxygen like they used to!

And so consumption increases.
With everyone's greed, and blindness to the supply factor of Oxygen, everyone has now dug their own graves, because they used up the only oxygen left, because they responded to the fall in prices as if it were a price signal, the price has fallen, that must mean we spend our money on it! And consume, consume, consume.

I relate back to oil now, and here's what WILL happen, regardless of whatever the "Peak Oil" theory may say, or whatever any of you will say.

It has been scientifically proven that Oil is NOT a renewable source, therefore it WILL run out in however many years scientists wish to quote.

Can you imagine how stupid you will feel when there is next to no oil left with no really economically usable alternative, because you carried on using such a precious resource? The stupid will say they could have done more to prolong the life of oil, whereas those who saw this coming will have found some other means of transport, or situated their lives to where oil is no longer a major factor.

If you want to see a fall in food prices, and a fall in retail prices of everything in general, you will find alternative travel now, you will use your car less in situations where you could have just walked, or taken the bus, or cycled.

You'll share lifts with co-workers, family, friends, as was the point of the National Lift Share Scheme.

You'll realise, these low prices are not meant for you to buy more oil, they're only falling because of the falling demand, we are STILL running out of oil, no matter what anyone will tell you.

To finish, there are obviously situations where there is a necessity to use oil, and there always will be, and I feel sorry for this minority, because their way of life is being ruined by all those who consume oil where there are plenty of alternatives.

No-one will listen or respond to this positively, more people like 124 are going to come up with some other sophistic, rhetoric response that will lead you to believe everything I have said is a load of "bullshit".

Just because there is a quick, witty response, it does not invalidate the point! It just leads people into a false sense of security, that its ok to carry on what they're doing.

I won't post anymore, I hope that the miracle occurs where someone will actually agree with this post, and not be a hopeless, use-all-my-pity-to-defend-myself moron.

Posted by Cameron Wilby, 12th November 2008 6:57pm

It'd be nice to see an option on this site to show you the most expensive stations in 5/10/15/20 mile radius that way they could be avoided.

Posted by Ben Widdowson, 12th November 2008 7:00pm

RE Mr. Wilby

THE DUMMY HAS BEEN FIRMLY THROWN FROM THE PRAM!!
ITS YOUR BALL AND YOU HAVE GONE HOME!!
I'M TELLING MY MOMMY OF YOU!!
NOT POSTING AGAIN!! LOL

Now that is exactly the response I expected from an excuse for a human being.
Do you really believe the think-tanks of the world are not knowledgeable on the fact that changes are coming?
Do you also think people on this site are as stupid as yourself in believing that "the end is nigh?"
We are all aware that oil is dwindling, its just we fail to understand why we must pay more in this country than, say, USA or New Zealand. (I know there are one or two dearer before you start spouting the f'king obvious)
Perhaps, and I know this will make you angry and start rubbing sticks for your fire tonight, but perhaps people in directorate positions ARE greedy and ARE making huge profits from others misfortune (living in this country at the moment IS a misfortune)
Now, lets use this as a hypothetical situation, all the worlds big brains sat in the dark and never saw a crisis hiding around the corner, the oil ran out and the last produced petrol was £4,000 ltr.
Do you think the world will sit still and wait? No, steps are already in progress to alleviate the demand on oil.
Vast areas of chopped down rain forests are being re-planted with palm oil trees. (bio-fuel to your other brain cell Mr. Wilby)
Has not your local council been promoting public transport? Encouraging office workers to work from home most of the week? and many other ideas?
Have you been walking to work, cycling or taking a bus? somehow I think not.
How about your own contribution of using a biodegradable carrier bag (bet someone is making huge profits from that one! (but hey, we are greedy))
Changed all your light bulbs? Switched off all unused appliances? Removed that 300 watt spot light in your back garden? Stopped your wife from using the hair dryer or straighteners?
Are you really so stupid with your head up your ar se?
I do believe thick people as yourself who live in glass houses should not throw wobblies OOPS, I mean stones.
Bye bye nutter.
PS, to all the genuine posters, I believe we have the right to have our say, whether you agree or not does not make you right or wrong.
Why do people have to lower themselves to levels beneath contempt and attack others beliefs. Its morons like blog 125 that caused the Berlin wall to be erected in the first place.

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 8:07pm

Re Steve M 124
I'm with you 100% (well except the Tesco bit).
And Cameron Wilby 125 you too raise some very good and valid points, but
the point that Steve M is trying to make is that we are being ripped off big time!
Whether oil runs out today, tomorrow, next year or 50 years time has nothing to do with these pages. What galls us the most is that the big oil companies can create panic through propaganda and the help of peak oil (unwittingly
maybe) to increase the prices to those we experienced in the summer.
We are not niave we know the supply of oil is finite and yes perhaps we do bury our heads in the sand in the faith and sure hope that the scientists of the world will save us, admittedly this may not be the right attitude to adopt
but the majority of mankind has never been any different and they never will.
In an ideal world we'd all work from home (could nurses & doctors?)
in an ideal world we'd grow all our own food (could tower block tennants?)
Sadly we don't live in an ideal world and walking to work may be possible for some people but for most we simply have to commute, be it cars, taxis, buses
or trains so in most cases Mohammed has to go to the mountain simple as.
All any of us really want is for our incomes to be greater than or equal to our outgoings but when we are being blatently ripped off with regards to our fuel prices i.e petrol, diesel, electricity and gas it is simply taking the p*ss.
The more peak oil et al bang on about their theories (or facts) the more they are playing into the hands of the power suppliers right down the line.
So message to peak oil:- Please refrain from "WE'RE DOOMED, WE'RE ALL DOOMED" because this is what overfills the coffers of the oil and energy suppliers. Don't suffer with foot in mouth disease.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 12th November 2008 8:41pm

RE 128

Thanks

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 8:54pm

Hi Steve
Re 129 your very welcome.
Re 127 I've read understand and fully agree with everything you've said in that posting but to guarantee that your postings remain on site you mustn't let your passion for your (our) beliefs to overcome us.
I know what I'm writing here is open for all to read but if Mr Wilby were to hit the "report comment" button (insults)your posting could be removed and that would be a great shame. In all probability he's quite thick skinned (I am) and sticks and stones etc but lets not lower ourselves to their level and give them the satisfaction of having any of our posts removed.We are much better than them.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 12th November 2008 10:06pm

RE 130,
Hi Adrian
Message recieved and understood. thank you.
There is a select & save by where I live and 3 x 200g jars of nescafe are only £7.00 (cheaper than tesco's).
love the stuff, now if there were a shortage of coffee I would be VERY upset.
HAPPY MOTORING.

Posted by Steve M, 12th November 2008 10:39pm


Production at the world's oil fields will decline faster in coming years, putting more pressure on future oil supplies, the International Energy Agency said on Wednesday.

As current fields fade with age and the industry moves offshore and into smaller fields, decline rates will accelerate, the agency found, and more investment will be required to make up the shortfall.

The Paris-based watchdog, which represents the interests of energy-consuming nations, made its prediction in a detailed analysis of 800 of the world's oil fields -- the first report of its kind.

Posted by Peak Oil, 13th November 2008 8:36am

Re 132:-
When we are right
nobody remembers
but
When we are wrong
nobody forgets.
Thank you Peak Oil for keeping it brief, factual and neutral.
I'd like to believe (and hope) that we are all on the same side.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 13th November 2008 9:13am

Re 131.
I know that these pages are pre-dominantly about our fuel and energy
needs but it doesn't hurt to lighten the mood occasionally with a slight variance in topic to wit Steve, the coffee you are buying at just over £2.00 a jar is at best
suspect and at worst the sweepings off the floor at the start or end of production. I'v bought Nescafe from a small independant outlet and I've also
fallen for that cr*p masquerading as Nescafe at the pound shops and I can tell you they are NOT the same.
Anyway thats enough now we are here talking about rip off fuel prices and I've no intention of starting a new topic page blathering on about tea & coffee. So lets end it here and now and stick with the serious issue of fuel prices.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 13th November 2008 9:38am

Stating the obvious here, but a flame war in this blog is the last thing we need. Let the prophets of doom alone in their scaremongering antics.
We better point out to the oil companies that crude oil is now way below 60 $/barrel ($ 56.08 ATM and falling) so ~ 1/3 of the peak price of ~ 150 $/barrel: we WANT the price of unleaded fuel to get back to a reasonable 75 ppl NOW.
There is NO justification whatsoever to keep the unleaded price above that price.
We DEMAND the oil companies to lower the price of petrol in ALL their forecourts, and the great distribution (TESCO, ASDA, etc.) to refuse to pay their providers unreasonable prices and then pass the savings to the consumer in their forecourts.
I'll need to fill my tank this weekend, and I will REFUSE POINT BLANK to pay more than 75 ppl. That's my offer: if the pump price doesn't match NOW, the petrol will stay to rot in the forecourt tanks.
I have a 3 miles walk to work, the kids have a 1 mile walk to school: I can make without the car for a month, but I'm sure oil companies can't afford not to sell petrol for a month.
Let's see who dies first.

Posted by Corrado Mella, 13th November 2008 11:39am

fix ure search site it aint working for me

Posted by Dazza, 13th November 2008 12:43pm

re 131
Hi Adrian, the coffee is very real, wholesome and satisfying, trust me. End of.

Mr Peak Oil, bearing in mind there is undoubtably a shortage in oil, can you explain (in less than 1000 words) why we pay more than most other nations for petrol and especially the evergreener diesel?
Again bearing in mind when fuel prices raised world wide explain why ours raised probably the most, and why havent they fallen at the same rate as our foreign counterparts?

Before you answer, take the USA as an example of driving bigger vehicles, more of them and longer journeys.
Does just our using less fuel make a sgnificant change to the amount of oil used and the pollution bit as well?
One more question. Will you answer this? do you read anyother side of a discussion? (OK, two questions).

I have a feeling that it may be (dare I say it) greed on the government and the companies side of the fence.

Posted by Steve M, 13th November 2008 2:10pm

I've just seen another one of those silly (.) numbers, talk about trying to undercut

Wigston Service Station 92.8 Wigston

Posted by Ben Widdowson, 13th November 2008 3:45pm

Re: 137

Well, I have a spare few minutes, perhaps Peak Oil will be along later, here's my tuppeny worth.

There isn't a shortage of oil, there is currently an oversupply, hence the drop in the price per barrel.
However, once a recovery from the recession starts, there most certainly will be shortages as demand increases beyond the ability of producers to produce. This is largely because we have had most of the easy to extract stuff, future supplies are going to have to come frrom unconventional sorces, such as the environmentally ruinous tar sands and oil shales, for which the refining processes are difficult and slow, and from hard to access deep sea sources etc.
We will probably never extract all the oil there is. What we will see is a sawtooth effect in pricing as first there is economic recovery, which will be stalled by hitting the physical barrier of production, then keep repeating the process.
The future we face is one where economic growth cannot continue to expand, this is the bit politicians are struggling with - how to tell people that, assuming they understand it themselves.
Peak oil is a fact, there is no denying that, but the effect we are going to first experience is demand exceeding supply, in a sense it doesn't matter if we have only used 1/10th of what is there if we can't pump enough.

Whether peak has been reached or shortly will be, is, under these circumstances, immaterial, because shortages will occur anyway.

As regards greedy oil companies, of course they are going to grab what they can whilst they can. They aren't in business as a social service, the shareholders come first - take that one up with the concept of capitalism, something we have long been happy to reap the benefits of.
Government is responsible for raking off taxes from fuel sales, not setting prices. With the state the economy is in, and the way it is heading, the likelihood of a reduction in their share of the spoils is unlikely.

We have chosen this way to live and this system to live under, one that promised anything we wanted, if not everything. Which is fine, until limits are hit, and energy supply is one of the limits, of many, that we are going to be butting up against hard from now on.
All of which is a bit tough, but don't forget that anyone alive now in the western world lives like kings compared to any other previous civilization - but can it be sustained. No.
Best start checking things off Peak Oil's list.

Posted by Greg Brown, 13th November 2008 4:17pm

The price of brent oil in London has fell to a 3 1/2 year low of $50.60.

The report also states there will be no global growth in oil demand this next 12 months from the 2007 level.

The IEA reported that even though there has been a significant drop in demand, next years price should hold at $85.00 per barrel max.

It stated that although prices in the US had fallen dramatically (unlike in the UK) THERE HAS BEEN NO SUDDEN DEMAND FOR MORE SUPPLY.

The agency said in its monthly report that it was "unlikely that...US motorists will revert to driving and purchasing gas-guzzling SUVs (sports utility vehicles)" and financial conditions for US auto manufacturers were worsening by the day.

Just a point of interest, if you type "sustainable oil" into google search and go to "Bubbling-up Meta-Filter" and see the report by Thomas Gold at Cornell way back in 1992.
This has led to more scientific reaserch which supports the theory that oil reproduces itself using massive pressures, heat and methane to name only a fraction of the pieces that make up the process.
The only way I can explain is its like a tree producing sap/amber.

Im not saying its true or not, just keeping an open mind.

Posted by Steve M, 13th November 2008 4:39pm

140, stop being a tw't

oil is a short term non renewable source of oil, it will take up to millions of years for oil to reproduce without us touching it.

Posted by Robin Slade, 13th November 2008 4:58pm

RE Robin Slade 141

Years ago it was said if man travelled above 19mph he would die.
Years ago it was said man would never reach the moon.
How you can easily dismiss theories just because it is beyond your obviously limited neanderthal intelligence is rather funny.
There is no need to stoop to gutter language because you disagree.
Now if you had read the whole piece and not just the easy words you would realise it is just a light hearted bit of information.
I also stated I neither believe nor disbelieve.
Scientists have for 100's years predicted what they thought was true using maths and all available information, a few times they were true, mostly they were just what they started out as, ie, theories.
Can you prove to me beyond all reasonable doubt that oil is only un-sustainable? I think not.
Just as I cannot prove oil is sustainable.
It was just a bit of fun, get it yet?


Posted by Steve M, 13th November 2008 5:56pm

As early as the 1820s, oil drilled from West Virginia wells was used as a light source and an industrial lubricant.
How many of us would have believed this? Nearly 200 years of extracting oil from the Earth. O.K it wasn't til the turn of the last century that we started to crudely refine it into petrol and even then what we now call diesel was waste product (as it still is but they charge us more for it than petrol).
Joe Bloggs in the street really didn't start his love affair with car until the late 1950's early 60's and up until then oil extraction was increasing yes but not
as significantly as we would have imagined but from the 1960's onward our
extraction levels increased almost exponentially year in year out to present day levels so for the past 50 years we've been going at it hammer and tong
and we can't help but wonder why we haven't run out already.
Now here's a strange thing, every major car manufacturer is developing new better more efficient engines for their cars but the majority of them still run on petrol or diesel and if the world truly is running out of oil (and I'm not saying it isn't) then it begs the question why? Could they have a secret new fuel waiting to replace petrol or diesel? I guess the short answer is NO because if they did then they would have used during the recent oil crisis or maybe not.
New cars and engines aren't developed on the back of beer mats in the smoking areas of public houses the process costs many many millions of pounds/dollars and you don't spend that kind of money today if the fuel thats going to run them runs out tomorrow.
There may be no quick fix to the oil question but I'm pretty sure that all the big wigs in the car manufacturing plants around the world haven't bet on a definite loser. If theres no bread let them eat cake.
Anyway here endeth the history lesson.

Posted by Adrian John Bell, 13th November 2008 10:17pm

RE 139 Greg (Gordon??) Brown

Are you peak oil in disguise?

Although your side of the discussion does have some merits, I am vexed as to whether you are either peak oil or a damn good politician.

Lots of words but no direct answers to any questions posed.

Read post 137 again and have another go,, free of charge.

(eg, 2+2=4 not the 2 that could have been + the 2 that should have been but were unable to be here today =5)

RE 143 Adrian

well said, you have obviously grasped the whole concept.

Posted by Steve M, 14th November 2008 11:32am

Re: 144

Yes, we are being ripped off. Diesel costs more than petrol to refine, there will continue to be a disparity. The UK doesn't have the most expensive fuel costs out there, but yes, we are still being ripped off.

I repeat:

'As regards greedy oil companies, of course they are going to grab what they can whilst they can. They aren't in business as a social service, the shareholders come first - take that one up with the concept of capitalism, something we have long been happy to reap the benefits of.

Government is responsible for raking off taxes from fuel sales, not setting prices. With the state the economy is in, and the way it is heading, the likelihood of a reduction in their share of the spoils is unlikely.'

What else did you expect? No, I am not Peak Oil nor Gordon Brown. Nor is this a simplistic matter.

As regards post 143, you seem to think it surprising that as a race, we would allow ourselves to become addicted to a single energy source, a finite one at that, and base our entire civilization upon that single source.

Clearly, if we were to use our intelligience, we would either have a back up or would ration that single, precious resource to enable a transition to a different way of living i.e. less energy dependent, and to investigate other viable, long term energy sources. All without damaging the prospects our our children, who frankly, will look back upon this profligate age with astonishment.

Sadly, our intelligience allows us to do great things, but our original programming is not that intelligience, it is instinct, a set of primeaval responses which are our default setting, at the most basic level, fight or flight, with a few adds such as acquisitiveness and short termism. Intelligience would get us out of this mess, instinct will make it worse. We are going with instinct.

There is no conspiracy to hold back some wonderful unknown energy source, oil producers are simply making hay whilst they still can - you would too. It isn't intelligient, it's how we do things. Sadly there really isn't anything out there that can do the job of hydrocarbons that is anywhere near the point of being usable on a mass scale, these things always seem to be 30 years away (cold fusion, hydrogen etc etc).

My solution? There is a known problem with only one answer - prepare for a world with less energy readily available. This will impact every single area of our lives. This is the point that Peak Oil is somewhat relentlessly advocating, though in my view Peak Oil as a phenomenom is not the single thing that will cause the biggest problems, it's just the most immediate.

We need to stop thinking in such a short term manner - expecting everything to be always as it is now. We should be using our intelligience.

Posted by Greg Brown, 14th November 2008 12:24pm

FOA Greg Brown

I think I grasp what you are attempting to say.
We as a race see no further than our collective noses.
We are going blindly into the relatively unknown world of no oil.
We have no idea of what comes next, collectively or singularly.
Oil is the be all, end all.
Without it, we might as well call it a day.

It is without doubt our own undoing.
We have no reserve plan (that we have been told about).
I am not saying there is a magical property waiting to take the place of oil but not every thing is made public.

Reading what Adrian says makes an awful lot of sense about building more cars that rely on fossil fuels.
If as you suggest the corporates are only in it for the money, then why spend millions upon millions of notes on discovering more efficient engines?

Still the burning question is "why do we still pay more at a time when barrelled oil prices are heading for unprecedented lows? (Compared to most other countries)


I look forward to your essay.

Posted by Steve M, 14th November 2008 1:09pm

peak oil, greg brown, cameron wilby.

This site is about fuel prices in this country, NOT preaching to death.

I suspect you and others like you all meet in a dark alley and have a group hug.

The rest of civilization are aware of oil shortages but fail to comprehend the very simple fact.

************WE ARE BEING RIPPED OFF***BIG TIME******************

Posted by Brummie, 14th November 2008 6:47pm
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