16.02.07 Why did you sign the travel tax petition?

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3982 comments 25316 votes

Unless you have had your head buried in the sand for the last 6 weeks, you will have seen and quite probably signed the travel tax petition.

Did you sign the travel tax petition?

Over 1.5 million UK citizens have now signed the petition which will be closed to new signatures on 20th February.

The petition is a plea to "scrap the planned vehicle tracking and road pricing policy" which the Department for Transport is proposing as a solution to congestion on UK roads. Every vehicle would be tracked via satellite and motorists would pay tax depending on how far they travel, at what time and on which roads. This new travel tax would probably take the place of vehicle tax discs and fuel tax (so petrol and diesel would be much cheaper).

We are delighted that the British public is getting so involved in this issue. However, for this petition to be a success, it should not just dismiss this travel tax idea outright. Instead, it should spark a debate into the pros and cons of this tax. If the proposed system is a bad idea then how do you think motoring should be taxed in the future? Let's all have our say and see if we can come up with a better solution. You tell us:

Do you support the concept of paying tax according to when and where you drive?

Could this new road tax system work?
Do you have a better idea of how to tax motoring?

Your Comments

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Just as a matter of interest, does anyone have up to date figures on what percentage of the present road fund licence is actually spent on our roads? There was a lot of noise some 10 years ago stating that Japan spent 110%, Germany 100% and even the Yanks spent over 80% with the UK spending less than half. How true that was I don't know but in light of the present proposals it would be interesting to find out wouldn't it?

Posted by David Hutchings, 28th February 2007 1:02pm

I think the only way to go is to get rid of all the other taxes (Road Fund Licence, Congestion Charge, road tolls, etc) and put it all on Fuel Duty.

1. 100% collection, no evasion
2. The polluter pays, the more you use the more you pay.
3. Scalable duties for more efficient fuels (or even tax exempt!)
4. Additional local tax on fuel brought in Congestion zones and surrounding areas.

Why won't the government do it? Beacause its too simple.

Posted by Dave Berwick, 28th February 2007 1:03pm

The State will know where you were, when you where there, how you got there and where you stopped along the way. Ah, also, how quickly you did it.....get ready for fines, fines and more fines.......dont forget the summons for evidence (place and time), you too will become a part of one great big digital/data domain.

Forums, webtitions, blogs etc. Great, but just dont vote for the idiots next time, you know who you are.

Lobby your MP. Refuse to support the socialist experiment.

Posted by Steve Dunwoody, 28th February 2007 1:04pm

Forget the politics, forget the personalities, What is the aim of the tax? To get the same effect, why not just set up road blocks at the entry to every major city and keep all the cars outside? You do not need to take money off the drivers to acheive this. Then use all the police officers usually engaged on traffic duty in that area to patrol the streets and keep me safe from muggers rapists and druggies etc whilst I walk/bus/cycle in to work. I work for local government, I moved to a new rural area to be close to work. They have now transferred me to a job across the other side of the city. I am obliged to drive through the congestion to get to work. Going round it is not feasible. And my employers are the ones thinking about how the congestion charge will benefit them?

Posted by Stevie B, 28th February 2007 1:04pm

The government should scrap road tax and lower the taxation they charge on petrol as its the highest in the world and put road tax on petrol. That way, everyone is charged for what they use. This tracking device is not wanted as big brother is bad enough on tv, let alone following our every movements.

Posted by Heidi Rich, 28th February 2007 1:04pm

I live 50 miles away from where I work, currently it would be more expensive to get to work by anything other than car, especially as I would have to use 3 different train lines, I hear that some areas could charge upto £1.50 per mile on that note It could cost me about £750/week, I would rather leave earlier or sit in congestion and continue to pay road tax as I do now, there is no way I can afford to pay extra, I love my job and it's not fair that I should to move closer to my work and further from my family just because the government want me to pay more to use the roads I have no choice but to use.
I'm hard working with a family to support and this tax is a huge worry for me and my family, if there were a train that went direct to my work I would use it.
Also I would still have to drive to get to the train station and then pay the extortionate parking costs.
For me and I'm sure many others if this tax comes in it's a no win situation, and I would not be able to afford the cost of living.

Kevin potter, a very stressed, hard working driver, with a baby on the way an over the top morgage and now the worry of affording this new tax.

Posted by Kevin Potter, 28th February 2007 1:05pm

Unless we want to face endless congestion, grid lock and misery on the roads in the future, as well as the negative effects of climate, it must be made less attractive to travel by car in cities and on motorways.
The car driver must pay for his/her added pollution produced by slow, stop start journey's with one person in a vehicle. Ie it must cost more.
All the revenue from such a taxing system must then be put into creating a truly excellent system of public transport and environmentally less harmful ways to travel.
Continuing as we are is simply not an option.
The tax system is one important way to help us all make the changes that are needed.

Posted by Steve Paynter, 28th February 2007 1:07pm

Some of the comments posted are absolutley ridiculous. saying we should all abolish our cars and take public transport? Reality does not allow for such activities. Some of you have said that you dont live near adequate transport links or it is not proctical for your to use public transport. People who have apposed this, THINK ON! Look in the real world. In the busy lifestyle that so many people lead, it is not practical to use public transport and i completely agree with previous comments stating that public transport links are not at an acceptable level. Look at other countries and cities. Pragues' public transport links are second to none. You are never waiting more than 5 minutes for your transport, bus, tram, train, they all work on an honesty basis too. Paris, Berlin and Dublin are all the same. Why cant our governments be more like them. Its ok for our governemtn to say the transport links are ok, they live in London where taxis are 10 to the penny, big red busses are everywhere you go and the tube gets you to A and B in a shot. Outside of London, things are different. People dont live 2 minutes from a tube station or bus stop.
The new tracking and taxing of vehicles is yet another way to line the governments pockets. They have just bumped the PAD on air travel up by £5.00, they are increasing taxes on fuel and tax all the time and where does this money go. If the government could be open and honest for a change about the manoey and where it is going and how it is going to be used, then maybe people would look differently on this who farce.
As it stands, there have been no proved, justified answeres to why the new tracking and hiked peices are being introduced and how it is going to benefit the British citizens in the long run.

Posted by Chris Myers-smith, 28th February 2007 1:08pm

I think adding extra tax is disgusting!

The shear amount of money wasted by MP's travelling around the world/hotel bills/flights/etc... is completely unacceptable. For example: The Labour MP for Bridgend (S.Wales) claimed £145,143 in expenses last year, MP Eric Joyce, Labour (again) claimed £174,811!!!!!

If we can control the governments ludicrous expenses we will probably save a damn sight more money than trying to bleed that extra penny from hard earning tax payers!!!!!!!!

Posted by Simon Dawson, 28th February 2007 1:08pm

I'm lucky enough to be able to work from home so don't need to drive that often.
However, on the occasions when I do need to go to an office location I either have to drive a 140 or 390 round trip, depending on which office. I'd much prefer to be able to take public transport to do this but am unable to due to the journey times involved.
The local bus company also has a staff shortage which means busses are very frequently cancelled with no notice.

If public transport was a viable option I would use it. At the moment it isn't.

Posted by Mark Brown, 28th February 2007 1:08pm

I seem to question if our government has missed the real point. This issue has not just happened. If there was not the percieved green vote in it, will the government really be pushing for this? It is yet another tax with a green label wrapped around it. Will it be ring fenced to use only for the environment - the short answer is NO. If they are serious, then public transport will have a real investment made and not just played with. Town planning will be changed to provide us with the ability not to have to rely on our cars to get to the few shops that exist in large central out of town (and in some cases) difficult to reach places unless you have a car. The cost of buying running and scrapping a car also needs to be made public (there are reports that the hybrid cars are using hazardous materials that cost far more to dispose of and they are being marketed as env. friendly !). The road fund licence (the tax disk fee) would be incorporated into fuel. The tax raised from car purchase, the purchase / running costs (VAT when purchasing it, repairing it, fuel tax etc ) which are in the billions of £s would be used for improving our env, assist those that do need help in this. In short, another tax, to give them more money to waste, employ more government quangos at an exorbitant salary with index linked pensions and the joy of travelling around (damaging the environment) telling us how to do it when we already know it.

Posted by Phil Souter, 28th February 2007 1:09pm

The government is carrying out a program of revenue raising at the expence of the UK motorists. In Northampton like many other towns and city's you will see traffic calming schemes that claim to make travelling by road safer for both motorists and pedestrians.
This is I believe an elaborate deception that will ultimately lead to greater congestion, increasingly frustrated drivers and eventually pave the way for acceptance of a congestion charge in most large conurbations that will fill the coffers of both local and national government, destroy local commerce and impoverich motorists who must continue to use their own cars because the nescessary growth of public transport cannot be provided solely by private enterprise to cope with the estimated demand.
It may be of interest to readers to know that those nasty road humps that your local councils have placed outside your houses have been banned by the governments own road transport laboratory from being installed within 25 meters of any bridge,underpass or tunnel because it is known that heavy trucks and buses continually passing over such obsticales can cause substantial damage to these structures, apparently your houses dont warrant any such protection,there is also a health concern as areas where traffic calming slows traffic, pollution levels of poisonous carbon dioxide and monoxide from car exhausts is known to increase by upto 100%, this is hardly protecting children walking to schooland at present no research is under way to determine if a link exists between raised pollution levels have any influence on the increase in childhood asthema.
I urge all who read and agree with these comments to write to your local MP and register your opposition to these dictatorial government stealth tax.

Posted by John Kelly, 28th February 2007 1:09pm

If Mr blair thinks we should all get the bus why does he give old people FREE cars, i can see the road charge being a shambles how is the gov going to know if the box is in your car or hooked to a battary in your garage, and thats what will happen,

Also if so one steals your car and drives to the moon at rush hour will you still have to pay???

Posted by Martin Tulip, 28th February 2007 1:09pm

If I dont drive to work I cant get ther, If I dont get ther I cant drive the Bus that provides public transport. That goes for 99% of the drivers that work there. I would imagine that the same thing goes for train drivers.

Posted by Ian Grice, 28th February 2007 1:09pm

It seems fair that we should pay for what we use. Maybe it will make people THINK before they jump in the car for needless journeys? True, public transport isn't always a viable alternative, (if I took the bus to work I'd arrive 3 hours late and have a 3 mile walk!) but people could think more before using their cars - ie. doing the shopping on the way back from work rather than making a special journey. For the sake of our planet, people need to be made to think about what they are doing. Maybe the only way to do this is to hit their pockets.

Posted by Isabel Ellis, 28th February 2007 1:10pm

Surely the fairest and by far the cheapest and most efficient way to tax motoring would be to scrap the current tax and add any other taxes onto the fuel price. That way you don't get the problem of untaxed cars on the road; those with heavy-consumption cars are automatically taxed at a higher rate because they use more fuel and there are NO astronomical set-up and admin costs. Also, there is no Big Brother spying system. Why have a system that costs billions to set up and run and which could break down/be faulty at the drop of a hat??

Posted by Julia Edwards, 28th February 2007 1:11pm

The pricing of travel depending on when are how far you travel in principle, if it replaces the extortionate tax already imposed on us is fine. However if it only adds to our tax burdon, because the government can't think of a better way to sort congestion then, it's yet another ruse to screw money out of us. Add to that the real danger that our speeds would be monitored, and fines appearing through the post with no right to appeal, because it's all computerised.
Surely if the railway network were used for transport of freight at quiet periods, and trucks were financially encouraged to operate at night, this would dramatically reduce the congestion and accidents on our roads.

Posted by Pete Williams, 28th February 2007 1:11pm

I commute 110 miles daily to work and work normal office hours. I live in the North Yorkshire moors and travel to Middlesbrough 5 days a week. I love my job and if these proposals are carried out I would have to look for a job nearer to home which is unacceptable. I would consider car sharing but I would be unable to share a car with a stranger for personal security reasons.
I would love to use public transport, however where I live it is more geared towards tourists and over priced.

Posted by Justine Mcguinness, 28th February 2007 1:12pm

In principle i agree with the new system, however, it should be purely be for the industrial transportation and the under 21's (a group that seem to do far too much running about for unnecessary reasons and have far too many deaths resulting). The taxation of the industrial transport would help to cut their usage to a minimum too, a step that i have no doubt would be welcomed by the police, environmentalists, road users, and ministry of transport.

Posted by Darren Wakefield, 28th February 2007 1:13pm

I dont know why every one is debating this issue,its really simple.
SCRAP ROAD TAX, ADD THE COST ONTO FUEL PRICES AT THE PUMPS,EVERYONE WILL HAVE TO PAY FOR THAIR MILAGE ON BRITISH ROADS END OF STORY!!!!!!

Posted by Mr Len Colman, 28th February 2007 1:13pm

I am severly disabled, owing to a drunken driver nine years ago knocking me down as a pedestrian at a bus stop. The local 'public' transport is not disabled friendly, frequent, or ecologically desirable, and local rail services have been torn up.
I have, therefore, had to have built, at my own cost of £50 000.00, a special vehicle to which the social and mobility have contributed nothing, the only concession is free road tax.
In the interests of ecology, it is propelled by autogas.
I do not need the government's 'road pricing', zoning, or any other extra cost scheme, as the existing vehicle I have is the only way to get about anywhere, including doctors & hospitals.

Posted by Richard Powderhill, 28th February 2007 1:13pm

If more and more people start to travel on public service vehicles then surely it follows that there would have to be an increase in the amount of buses etc that are put into service. Yes, this would decrease the amount of cars/4x4s on the roads but I'm sure the pollution emitted would be far greater. I don't think they have thought this through properly, and I think that this is just a smoke screen for yet more 'back door' taxation because, if they really were concerned about the pollution in the atmosphere then their policies should start with those who are continually putting out these stupid hair-brained ideas. Give up all of your gas-guzzling vehicles first and then we might feel more disposed to follow suit!!

Posted by P. Coleman, 28th February 2007 1:14pm

IF the Government had used the tax on fuel, road fund licences and any other tax imposed on motorists to improve the roads or public transport then there might be some excuse for consolidating it into one overall tax. Unfortunately the exchequer has seen fit to use the taxes in any way he sees fit - certainly little concern has been shown for cost efficiency in ANY spending, and none whatsoever for improving public transport or road safety.
Furthermore why is not more use made of trains and canals for transporting containers rather than jamming up already blocked roads.

Posted by Lesley Hays, 28th February 2007 1:15pm

This tax is another way for this government to fill their coffers. I would not mind if the road and fuel taxes were put into the repair of the roads and providing a transport service one could use.
The motorist has been taxed off the road for years now and this will not save the climate change. Very few government officials use public transport, so by putting us off the roads leaves more room for their larg Jags etc.

Posted by David Mackay, 28th February 2007 1:16pm

I support road pricing. There are simply too many vehicles making too many journeys.

It won't be comfortable, but I can't see any other way of making people really consider whether journeys are necessary, and if so whether driving is the best option.

Punitive fuel taxation doesn't work, we just go "ouch" when we fill up and keep on driving as normal. Directly connecting the cost to each journey will really concentrate the mind.

Of course it won't be simple to implement, and inevitably won't be fair to everyone. I also doubt whether the fuel duty will be reduced accordingly, although it should be. There are lots of issues that need to be considered, but I have yet to see a better suggestion.

Posted by John, 28th February 2007 1:16pm

What baffles me about this plan is why no-one has said that it comes from the EU!
Clearly this discredited government wants to keep that info under wraps.
The media(some of it) gets preferential financial deals from the EU and therefore
don't publicise the truth!

Posted by Diane Granger, 28th February 2007 1:17pm

What baffles me about this plan is why no-one has said that it comes from the EU!
Clearly this discredited government wants to keep that info under wraps.
The media(some of it) gets preferential financial deals from the EU and therefore
don't publicise the truth!

Posted by Diane Granger, 28th February 2007 1:19pm

You should pay all the taxes in the petrol price. Thereby you would pay tax on how much petrol you used = the amount of miles travelled. I do not want the goverment monitoring where I go in my car thank you very much.

If you want to cut greenhouse gases, then the government should pass laws to make any new car sold in the UK a hybrid or electric or run on sunflower oil etc. Simply to raise taxes will not work as most people can afford to run cars these days.

Posted by Simon Jenkins, 28th February 2007 1:20pm

I think more people would be prepared to use public transport if it was any good & reliable we have a shocking public transport service in the UK. I'm a presenter and therefore that means me travelling at unsociable hours it could be 4am or 10pm how on earth can someone like me use public transport?
The government expect us to earn a living to contribute to the running of the country (which I would expect, everyone should contribute if we live here) yet seem dead set on making that as expensive & difficult as possible. I accept that the roads are heavily congested I live on the edge of the M62 so believe me I know! If this is going to replace road tax and people are going to pay according to when they use the roads ie if you travel in the so called rush hours you are charged more then it may be an option. What I am totally against is it being just another tax to pay. We pay through the nose for everything in the UK as it is and it makes me so angry. Where does all this money go? In my opinion the UK generally is in big trouble & something has to be done sooner rather than later.

Posted by Emma Simmons, 28th February 2007 1:20pm

Just another attemp by this sleazy government to squeeze us again ( I thought my road fund licence was meant to improve roads??..ie resurfacing and building of new roads???)...I wouldnt mind quite so much if I could trust them not to squander the money and plough it back into the transport infrastucture..more chance of them sorting out immigration, or getting the NHS back to health, or making the streets safe to walk along, or getting teenage single mums into work, or....the list goes on..and on...and on....I suspect they would just give it away in free handouts to some 'right-on' cause...

Posted by Neil Tyler, 28th February 2007 1:23pm

In theory paying as you drive is great, those people who rarely drive will have significantly lower bills, the reality however is very different. It is likely it will simply act as another way in which the governemtn can monitor us! They propose to charge people more to travel at peak times, well they're peak for a reason, people aren't going to turn up late for wok to reduce charges and if they do it'll have serious implications to productivity. The same could be said of busy road charges. The increased charge for popular roads could potentially also put presure on smaller roads through villages and the countryside, no one can think thats a good thing. Finally the impact such a scheme will have on transporting goods would be terrible, currently if you attempt the M1 on a week day you'll find hundreds of lorries taking up the two inside lanes, they're not there for the fun of it, in order for the country to thrive it needs goods to be transported around the country from their manufacturing bases, increased charges would simply put upward presure on prices, as we are made to pay for the firms increased costs! There is no way this idea is a good idea!

Posted by Holly Kerr, 28th February 2007 1:24pm

The tax is just another of Grubby Gordons way of making money so he can waste it. As a Historic vechile owner I also resent the stopping of the rolling 25 year tax exemption.

Posted by William Dickson, 28th February 2007 1:24pm

I live in the countryside and public transport is nowhere near up to scratch. There is no transport to where I work and from September I am going to have to use my car more to get my daughter to her new school as we are a few feet under the 3 mile rule and there is no public transport to her new school. The nearly 3 miles she would have to walk to school are dangerous - on roads with no pavements, across fields and down back alleys. It is also an unsafe cycling route and how would she carry all her school gear and a saxophone on a bike? It's all very well to say use public transport but what do people do that don't have that option. Perhaps there should be tax relief for those without public transport in their area.

Posted by Sue Oliver, 28th February 2007 1:25pm

I am finding this blog seriously depressing so will not be looking in again. People who think we should abandon our cars and use public transport clearly have a narrow view of the geography of this country and assume everyone can hop on a bus or train. I live in a remote part of Aberdeenshire. There is no public transport. The nearest bus stop is 4 miles away. I also have a disability which means I have to use my car. No doubt there will be people on this blog who think I should sell up and move.

Posted by David Cooper, 28th February 2007 1:26pm

Its always very amusing to see the usual "selfish car drivers" attitude on some of these posts.
Im sure these same individuals would be the 1st to complain,should they have to stand up from, for instance Cardiff-London,plus pay £100 plus for a return ticket.
These same public transport issues that dictate "when" you travel.also weekend rail engineering(get a train,everybody off train to bus replacement,everybody off bus and back to train),what a pleasure this would be!
As soon as this government wake up and realise that there is'nt a viable public transport system in the UK,that is affordable to the population,then it might just sink in,why so many people are so keen to use their cars.

Posted by Steve Smith, 28th February 2007 1:27pm

The point of this is surely to link how much you drive directly with how much you pay. Currently you pay insurance, road tax and fill your car up. Then you can drive wherever you like without a thought about what it actually costs you to drive down that particular road, or how much it costs to pop to the supermarket a few miles away for that 40p bottle of milk cos it's cheaper than the 60p milk at the corner shop just down the road.

The idea is to get you to think, is the journey absolutely nescessary. If it is then what is the cheapest, most suitable option.

To those who say they need their car because they have a disability, I have a solution. Implement a reduced rate (say 70% off) for disabled people. Simple. You currently pay exactly the same road tax and petrol duty as the rest of us not to mention the blue badge you get which makes your lives so much easier. In my view you would be much better off.

Also, they have said that not all roads will be covered by this scheme anyway.

We need more details on what they are proposing before we dismiss it out of hand.

Posted by Tom Dyer, 28th February 2007 1:27pm

When has a change to road taxation ever been for the better of the motorist? Although of course I cannot say for certain, I would be amazed if the average motorist was better off if this was to come into force.

I do believe something needs to be done as any journey of a reasonable distance can be frustrating these days. However taxation is not the answer. For years the motorist has been contributing more than is ever recycled back into transport.

The be all and end all is this....a lot of motorists would use public transport if a) it was more reasonable, b) it was reliable, and c) outside of the cities it actually existed!!!! Besides public transport couldn't even cope if people were to switch from using their cars.

Posted by Richard Bugg, 28th February 2007 1:28pm

yet another stealth tax by con merchant government. Brown is nothing but a gov sponsored thief. Blair has already indicated to Manchester council that they had better not bank on fact that other car taxes (fuel , road fund licence) will be reduced to compensate for any applicable new congestion charges that manchester have signed up for.

Since Edinburgh population had a referendum on whether they should participate in road charge schemes - theN every city should have a referendum

Posted by Mike, 28th February 2007 1:29pm

If car insurance is rated by postcode then so should car tax, those with transport on their door step should pay dear for car tax. Why should I pay the same as someone that can use a train, tram, bus or tube? Rural dwellers should pay far less. Plans to improve trains & buses should not be funded from road tax. Road tax should "do what it says on the tin" and improve the existing roads.

Posted by Derek Findlay, 28th February 2007 1:30pm

I resent any form of pay per mile idea and also resent the governments levy on fuel. I understand all of the issues involved, but feel this way of dealing with our problem does not recognise the social classes. For instance, for our high earners, these type of changes would be seemingly insignificant to their incomes. However, for persons on low incomes, this may mean that they would be unable to continue to own and run a car. The government are therefore discriminating against the poor.

If you choose to drive, why can't this tax be in proportion to your earnings? The governemnt could use tax codes to calculate the amount of pounds per mile rather than hitting our minimum wage population with the same levy as the Richard Branson's of this world.

Posted by James Head, 28th February 2007 1:31pm

It's all very well for the Government to come up with this idea, but their past performance has convinced me that any road-pricing scheme will not replace road fund licencing and fuel tax - it will be in addition to these ! All they've done for themselves is guarantee that at the next election, I will vote Conservative - and I'm a lifelong labour voter !

Posted by Malcolm Pitts, 28th February 2007 1:33pm

Public transport must be addressed first- everywhere- not just the big cities.

If you charge people more to drive on large roads they will simply divert to smaller rural roads- soon the country will become a total road network with rural areas near large roads spoilt forever.

Posted by Ps, 28th February 2007 1:34pm

Until such time as Public Transport is as clean/cheap/reliable/easy to use as my own personal vehicle, then I will continue to oppose this road tax idea. We already pay more than enough in taxes on our fuel and Tax Disc each year, but I have yet to see any sign of that money being put to a good use.

Tony's reply told us that about 1mile of motorway cost £30m to build? Fine, that should work out at about £10 per car per year for the next two years. Use the tax from my next tank of fuel to help pay for it.

Yes, we are an island nation, so space is limited, but every country is the same, they all have to fit their roads around everything else, and they do not seem to have a problem.

In recent trips, it has taken me as long to get from Dover to Southampton, as it has for me to drive right across Belgium and deep into Germnay - that can not be right

Posted by David Patrick, 28th February 2007 1:35pm

I believe that this additional tax is the wrong way of reducing congestion/greenhouse gasses. I believe that even if this is implemented there will still be a large number of vehicles on the road, people will struggle but I believe they will still pay, look at the cost of insurance and rising fuel costs. If the government wants to make realistic progress in this issue then they need to look at more realistic ways of doing so and also ways that the public will support. Improving the public transport system is one thing, and this is something that they should be doing without claiming they need more money, how much more can the nation afford to keep giving (Maybe they should take a look at the governments salaries and personal costs/expenses)??
I live south of Manchester and travel nearly 40 miles to work. My partner works right next to where we live so even if we moved next to where I live she, instead, would be travelling the 40 miles and in the direction that has far more congestion (I pass it heading toward manhester) and if we move in between we would be using two cars instead of just me using one. I have looked at taking the train but it's over £10 in each direction so that makes it far too expensive and the hours I would have to travel would mean my getting up at approx 4am everymorning and getting home approx 8pm everynight, and I'm sorry but I'm not prepared to do this.
On the emmision side of things, I cannot understand why the government does not push LPG more, it can be easily avaliable and the polutants are nothing in comparrison to normal fuels.
I need my car for work purposes, I would use public transport if it was far cheaper and far, far more frequent (within hours I could actually use!). My vehicle, I hasten to add, is already LPG converted so I have made an effort on cutting my emmisions, I wonder how many ministers cars are LPG???

Posted by Andrew Burton, 28th February 2007 1:35pm

I believe that the Road Fund Licence should be abolished and the price of petrol raised. This way, as many people have pointed out in the messages above, the more you drive, the more you pay! More importantly, it would catch out those people who never bother to buy a road fund licence as they have no choice but to buy petrol and all the tax could then be squandered by the Government in the usual fashion! It would also cost much less to administer than the proposed road charging system.

I think the idea of having a disc showing your insurance and MOT is also a good one as it would be easier to catch those people who don't bother to insure or MOT their vehicles.

The cost of implementing the road charging system could then be used to improve public transport.

Posted by Vicky Davis, 28th February 2007 1:35pm

This comment has been removed as it was found to be in breach of our Blog Policies.

I must admit I haven't read all the comments so my opinions may have already been expressed. I drive to work; a round trip to London of 100 miles a day. I live in a small village and even to get the train station constitutes a reasonable car journey and then a fee to park at the station. The cost of the train journey plus car park and tube at the other end is four times the cost of my one gallon of diesel each way car trip. And it takes me two and a half hours by train instead of one hour by car (admittedly at 5:50 in the morning). I am an academic lecturer so all this comes out of my (limited) wage.
If there is to be a tax, why not simply stick it all on the fuel itself. Easier to administer, no need for chips, incentive to drive smaller engined cars (which woiuldn't be the case with taxation per mile) etc... It still achieves the same ends - to directly tax the motorist per mile.
In terms of using alternative modes of transport, the Government has to realise they need to dangle a carrot BEFORE a donkey will respond, so they have to improve public transport links and prices FIRST, and then penalise the car user.

Posted by Greg Elgar, 28th February 2007 1:39pm

I think this is a bit of red herring to be honest. I think the underlying thing is that the government want to put the car tax up. What they are doing though is throwing this out so when the car tax does go up - we will all be ok with new pricing. How can they monitor all the cars and enforce prison sentances etc...when they are closing a number of prisons down in the country, even though they are over crowded.

Posted by Kerry Duval, 28th February 2007 1:41pm

The major problem is that the UK does not have a 'joined up' travel policy. We have a government considering road pricing, plus fuel duty and road tax, who do nothing about huge increases in fares on the railways. An integrated policy would aim to get people off the roads by giving a viable alternative. I am all for the having a choice, therefore I am not against motorway charges if they are done at a reasonable price, as with the peage in France. However, there must a reasonable alternative for other road users and that is what we lack in this country. Once again, no integration. Mr Blair must realise that he cannot continue taxing without providing us with a viable alternative.

Posted by Malcolm F, 28th February 2007 1:41pm

Well if the government wasnt such a sham they wouldnt have to add extra taxes onto drivers. There are people out there getting benefits for doing absolutely nothing to help the economy, they just want to get a free house and free money with out even trying to work. Why should the hard working public who earn money and pay taxes have to suffer anymore?
There is no insentive to get a job and start a family to continue the trend of earning money to pay taxes to ultimately pay the government to do nothing!
The public transport is a joke and I have no alternative to get to work other than to drive. If the government will pay me to stay at home and not take my car anywhere then fine but as they dont give a dam about the good honest hard working people why shouldn't I drive myself to work so I can live!

Posted by Ben Warwick, 28th February 2007 1:41pm

They need to sort out the public transport system. The cost is far to high!

London is a good example you can travel anywhere for a £1, in sheffield it cost over £2.50 to go 1 or two stops

I would happy used buses and trains but at the moment it is far cheaper and cheaper to use the car.

Posted by Adam, 28th February 2007 1:42pm

The real problem isn't the pricing. With this system the government and everyone they give/sell the information to will know, in real-time, every motorist's location. Couple this with the Identity Card scheme and it all becomes very sinister. At least Big Brother didn't sell the information to commercial organisations!

The only people to really profit from this will be the large Consultancy firms, and whoever gets the contract to manufacture the hardware.

If road pricing was only about raising money to ease congestio0n (which will never work anyway) then just put the tax on petrol. No consultancies to pay, no IT systems to build, and (almost) no extra administration costs.

Now, where's the petition against IS Cards?

Posted by Clive Pickering, 28th February 2007 1:42pm

I don't really know too much about taxes but instead of charging per mile, why not abolish road tax and add it onto petrol/diesel. That way the more you drive, the more you pay.
L.Perry Lancashire

Posted by Lynsay Perry, 28th February 2007 1:43pm

firstly if the government want cars off the road and for everybody to get on public transport well they need to improve them first,just last week a train derailed why???? because half the line was missing now i do pest control work can you tell me a bus driver is going to allow me on a bus wit ha firearm and then back on with a crate full of rats,rabbits foxes of course not and as for the condition of buses they are filthy dirty around here with mirrors hanging off bits of the vehicle hanging off as we get all of the city cast offs sent to our region of the south west.so what would i do if i wanted to go fishing at a local fishery????????????????? ill tell you id have to catch a bus (providing they would let me on with all the gear) then ge off and walk 2 miles then 2 miles back to the bus with my fish/gear an come home and seemings the buses around here run every 1 1/2 hours its not good enough to say the least this government have no real ideas how to cure this problem just alot of ooh we can tax this we can tax that and for every one else complaining about this ask yourselves who voted them in some one must of

Posted by Wayne Burgess, 28th February 2007 1:44pm

It will not be a fair way to do it i have to go to exeter now and again it will cost me a lot of money

Posted by Peter Moyes, 28th February 2007 1:46pm

I fail to see how the 'Travel Tax' could be introduced fairly as it would be introduced on a phased basis. A reduction in any other taxes could not possibly be geared to match such that those paying more by way of the new tax got a benefit in a reduction of the existing taxes. As it would inevitably take a few years to phase in, and existing taxes would inevitably not reduce until it was fully phased in, there would certainly be a lengthy period of double taxation for many people.
Two better ways to reduce congestion:
1. Put more resource into catching drivers with no tax, insurance or MOT. Fine them heavily and / or crush their vehicles. One way or another drive them off the roads and make sure it doesn't pay them to make the rest of us pay their share and suffer the extra congestion they cause.
2. Invest in public transport first (bus, metro , monorail etc) and provide clean, fast systems at cheap prices with plenty of free perifory parking. Build overpasses at congestion points and by-passes to avoid the need to go through towns. When these options are in place then impose restricted areas with high cost entry.

Posted by Graham Coates, 28th February 2007 1:46pm

i own a 4x4 because i live in the country and drive to work outside the bus timetables and routes...
when it rains theres 3 roads which floods beyond use regularly....
no work locally and i travell up to a 100 miles a day to work...
i WANT to work but if they keep putting motoring cost up everyone will be unable to get to work...
DONT FORGET ANY TRANSPORT COST INCREASE WILL ALSO PUT UP PRICES IN THE SHOPS....

Posted by Malcolm Collins, 28th February 2007 1:47pm

I have hip and knee problems, It is difficult and painful to get in and out of standard car so i have a 4x4 for the height and ease of getting in and out and i pay through the nose for it . so now i must pay more for using the roads that i pay in my road tax and petrol . i have a sport i like clay pigeon shooting i am not allowed on a bus with a shot gun , if i play gulf my clubs would not be allowed on a bus ,nor fishing rods .the point is i don't want a car but i have no choice it will be another must pay tax to force people off the roads to make more room for people like two jag's

Posted by Mr Douglas Barber, 28th February 2007 1:47pm

Well i think personally that the whole issue is to do with stealth tax despite what TONY says in his email, and the main point is that it hardly matters what the government says people simply do not believe a word of it.

Posted by Kenny Robertson, 28th February 2007 1:47pm

Not all of us have public transport services close to hand. I live in Berkshire and work in SW19. For me to arrive at work on time I would have to leave my house at around 5.30am (and that's to make it to work for 8am). Now as much as I would love to get out of the car onto public transport this just isn't feasible and until we have good reliable (and on time) links throughout the counties people are not going to be able to get out of the cars and onto the trains.
Now this weekend I am off to a friends in Newbury - again public transport is a no no - we need a service like the one we used to have back in the days back when, before all the stations where closed and if you missed a bus you didn't worry because you knew there would be one along in the next 5 mins.

Posted by Paula White, 28th February 2007 1:48pm

Taxation in this country is far too high in general. The paying public do not receive the service they pay for now ! Would you buy a fridge that didn't work and then not say anything to the supplier ? No I don't think so. So why pay road tax and put up with the very poor state of the roads? Putting a tax on the milage and times vehicles are driven will not benefit a) the consumer, b) the government and c) the environment authorities. This tax will only penalise the driver even further than he is being today.
Put the infra structure right on the public transport system first and then look to asking people to use it, then just maybe the response to the original question may be different. The only good thing about the road tax and fuel taxation is that if a person wishes to use a vehicle then they must pay the price. The choice will remain theirs. Currently people have to use their own vehicles to commute because of the poor infrastructure of the transport system. Under this new taxation they would be heavily penalised for going to work when the transport system doesn't support their needs. I'm convinced the government wouldn't spend any "extra" money raised on stopping the green house effects or improving the transport systems. This money would be lost in cyber space disguised by the treasurary, to be spent on more "war heads" or paying for things this country doesn't want or need.

Posted by Anthony Mcconville, 28th February 2007 1:48pm

Peter Fosdike is correct when he says that public transport is simply not there in a lot of areas, and other commentors say the same.
I think the whole car / public transport issue is inextricably linked with the way we live and work. Hardly anybody lives "above shop" or close to where they work any longer, so they have to commute. Many houses in suburbia don't have shops or schools nearby and anybody cyling there takes their life in their hands because there is no network of cycle lanes. In the 1960s, a lot of branch lines and railway stations were closed down, and public transport was infrequent, so people need a car. Then most freight was taken from the railways onto the roads... the list goes on and on.
As long as government and industry look at the bottom line and companies try to make their share holders happy, they won't invest in the long-term future.
In short, wherever you look, it's down to money, not saving the environment. And travel tax won't solve any of the above problems either. It just gives the government more money and introduces even more Big Brother. And it will create an even greater social divide. Those who have money don't care about yet another stealth tax. Those who just about manage financially may have to give up their car.

Posted by Judy, 28th February 2007 1:49pm

I work as a care msanager & have to drive daily through my city to various locations covering around 400 plus miles a week. its bad enough only being paid 0.20p per mile any extra charges would force me to stop working!!

Posted by Claire, 28th February 2007 1:50pm

Until public transport is cheaper and more reliable people will not be willing to give up thier cars, our enviroment is important and i think we all understand that so why dont the goverment just take off the road the most polluting cars like the big 4x4s and keep the more economical ones.
What the goverment hasnt realised is if they tax milage, alot of people may possibly have to give up thier jobs due to not being able to afford the travel which will lead to bigger unemployment rates.
whatever happens someone will always suffer

Posted by Caran Batson, 28th February 2007 1:50pm

There is no way a further tax will inhibit the use of cars, most who can afford it will 'bite the bullet' and pay up.
If public transport were efficient, and at reasonable cost, then more folk would use it.
The fairest way to tax a vehicle, is to put a levy on petrol, and scrap the road tax. That way those who use the car for highest mileage , and also those 'gas guzzlers' would pay their fair share for the greatest road use.
Why should a pensioner on low income who does need a car be forced to pay the same road tax doing a ver small yearly mileage have to pay the same road tax as the person who does over a thousand milkes every week on business.

Posted by Terry Jay Cooper, 28th February 2007 1:50pm

As a disabled driver I need my car more than ever, I could under the proposed new tax scheme be better off? however, I feel we pay to much already, on a recent trip to Teneriffe we hired a car and the Petrol there was half the price it is here 45p litre, so why do we pay 90p? it's rip off Britain again!!

Posted by Steve Webb, 28th February 2007 1:51pm

In response to comment number 2.

I own neither 3 cars or a 4x4 and am very happy to walk the 5 mins down the road to the local shop. However I do have a car and I do use it everyday and I did sign the petition. What I can't understand is if you are so against cars what are you doing on a website regarding petrol prices? I am totally for reducing carbon emissions and am quite happy to pay money for my carbon footprint, which according to many websites is around £25 a year. I would be paying for wind turbines, trees and green energy research. I am sure many people would rather pay for stuff like that than £8 a day to travel into manchester and pay for fat cats. I am sorry if that offends people but that is my opinion and if they want people to use public transport then perhaps I might use it if I didn't have to get on 3 buses for a 6 mile journey in the car.

Posted by Samantha, 28th February 2007 1:51pm

I do not think that enough is made of the fact that whenever fuel prices go up through 'market forces' then the tax on the fuel goes up automatically (the VAT).
Without having to implement any increases, the Chancellor is instantly getting extra revenue which he never needs to mention in speeches or account for in the Budget.

And a reply to George Neil -- where we live there are no buses!

Posted by Janet Wood, 28th February 2007 1:52pm

I am sick off all the extra taxes raised on travel especially cars

I own a property abroad and petrol is 70p a litre so why do we pay as much

They say it is for green taxes if that was true it would not be so bad but they do not use it for that

It is used to pay the million pounds a day each for the war in Afghanistan and Iraq

Posted by Les Young, 28th February 2007 1:52pm

It really is time for Tony Blair and his government to swallow a huge honesty pill! My word, it seems that New Labour have only taken half the time it took the Tories to reach the stage where little, (if anything), can be believed in what they say.

The "double speak" isn't confined to this side of the pond either...It appears that Al Gores home uses the equivalent energy in one month to that used in the average American home in one year!

I dislike cynicism, however, I'm being forced down this road by politicians with their "we're OK Jack...Its you people that need to conform" attitude. Wasn't it Winston Churchill who brought in road tax whilst declaring that all motoring was only "joyriding?" That nearly 100 years ago. And the tax has never been spent improving the motorists lot...So, whats changed?

No town or city in the UK can match the London Transport system...So, when we are taxed off the road in places like Telford, Shropshire, what are we in such rural towns to do? I really do hope that someone can articulate a good enough arguement to defeat this...But, I'm not overly confident given New Labours efforts to date!

Posted by Don Hambleton, 28th February 2007 1:52pm

These proposed taxes would criple low income earning families that rely on private transport. Truth be told, most of our tax money is now being used to fund all sorts of nonsense, which we the suffering public yield little or no benefit. I went for a boat ride around portsmouth harbour a couple weeks ago and i was amazed to see the number of multi million pound vessel just sitting idle that are going to be eventually sold off or used for target practice. The congestion charge is a farce cause i am sure most would agree that the flow of traffic through london remains the same. As a matter of practicality and bearing in mind that we already pay the highest tax on petrol would you use public transport for excursions to the supermarket, to take the kids to school or rely on public transport to carry you home after a night out. I for one cant afford to pay anymore for a public service which i do benefit, they should think about the less fortunate and stop coming up with all these taxes to further pressurise an already heavily burden nation

Posted by Donovan Davis, 28th February 2007 1:53pm

I don't know if this has been mentioned already but we already pay tax per mile - the tax on fuel!
The more you drive, the more fuel you use and the more tax you pay.

This Road charging per mile is a bad idea. The added costs to general living will soar, people who depend on their own cars for mobility will become isolated and companies will most likely add the added cost to the customer (who can't afford to run a car let alone pay extra for services).

Plus what else could it be used for? Tracking? Speeding?

Public transport is a joke; over crowded, unsafe, unreliable....

Educating people to use the car less may have a better effect. Better transport links would be a benefit.

Here in Liverpool, millions are being spent on new building projects and car parks but the roads that serve them are so congested - with poor planning, excessive pedestrian crossings, nonsensical light timings, poor lane markings and signage - that they become a start-stop route on a journey that should take 3 minutes takes up to 15! Progress? I think not.

Pay per mile wouldn't change that in the slightest.

Posted by John Mitchell, 28th February 2007 1:53pm

The proposals are flawed but we have to acknowledge that people will not alter their driving habits voluntarily.

I don't see any practical suggestions on the comments list so far that would work to reduce the congestion

Posted by Colin Spencer, 28th February 2007 1:55pm

1. Nationalise public transport, improve and subsidise it, turn it into a non-profit public SERVICE again. Maybe when that happens it won't cost me a minimum of twice as much to take a train as it does to drive to the same destination. Bring back trams.

2. Stop building roads, and largely pedestrianise city centres. In London, Zone 1 should be for taxis and buses only. And trams.

3. Encourage and incentivise home-working. This should be possible for at least 2-3 days a week for most people with office jobs.

4. Create high-occupancy vehicle lanes for cars meeting congestion-busting criteria - more than two people. These could be the old "bus lanes" in most places. Allow motorcycles in them too; bikes don't cause congestion.

5. Rather more broadly, set a long term goal of having a smaller and better quality population. More education, less reproduction! That's the way to win, as a country with a very limited landmass.

Posted by Tim Hawkins, 28th February 2007 1:55pm

My feeling is that the general public so mistrust this government that it is hard for them not to see this as yet another tax increase hidden within a good cause.
We live several miles from the nearest village and there is no public transport. I am sure some people do take their car when public transport is available, but a great many do not have that option. I find it impossible to estimate the cost effect of tjhese new measures and after years of spin, cynicism inevitably takes over and the suspicion is that one will inevitabl;y be worse off!

Posted by John Foster, 28th February 2007 1:56pm

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