According to the latest study from the RAC Foundation, a driver receives a penalty notice every 2.5 seconds somewhere in the UK. This adds up to a whopping 12 million penalty notices having been handed out each year and means that 1 in 3 drivers has received one of these penalty notices in a year.
The number of penalties is because of the increased use of cameras to catch offenders which has also led to greater mistrust in the system amid motorists. They see a lack of discretion and common sense when issuing the penalty notices, which causes people to distrust it.
Dr Adam Snow, criminologist lecturing at Liverpool Hope University compiled the statistics for the RAC Foundation that showed each year there are:
• 8 million parking penalties from local authorities
• 2.5 million penalties for bus lane and box jurisdiction
• 500,000 late licensing and insurance penalties
• 1 million red light and speeding penalties
These figures don’t include the additional 5 million parking penalties for drivers who are on private land or the 1.2 million drivers who use a speed awareness course to avoid the penalty.
Changing face of policing
The figures show that as police budgets are cut, they look to rely on the extra income generated from these fines. Reductions in police budgets are ‘perhaps the main driver’ behind the reliance on cameras, according to Dr Snow. Between 2010 and 2014, the number of police officers also fell by nearly one quarter, so less police on the streets combined with more cameras is why motoring penalties are on the increase.
Steve Gooding of the RAC Foundation said that in order for the system to maintain legitimacy, the public needs to be able to see these automatic enforcements as proportionate. This means that while wrongdoing should receive punishment, a decline in front line policing shouldn’t lead to a reliance on these penalties to make up the shortfall.
Currently, millions are caught on camera for minor misdemeanors, such as not paying on toll roads or jumping a red light, while more serious crimes are seen as going unpunished because there aren’t enough police to deal with them, or the police that they have are not trained or do not wish to engage with the criminals, such as the recent spate of thefts on mopeds in London.
(Credit – Highways England/Flickr)
Is the income being spent wisely?
On the other side of the argument is Martin Tett, the spokesman for the Local Government Association’s transport department, who says that effective parking control is one of the most frequently demanded services from residents and this is why parking companies that enforce action are both a deterrent and way to generate much needed income for underfunded councils.
In addition, income raised from offences such as on-street parking fines, is then used to help run parking services, with any surplus then being used for essential transport projects. This includes the £12 billion road repair backlog as well as creating new parking spaces in towns and cities. However, this year the Government has cancelled 22 road projects that were intended to ease road congestion and there is a general perception that traffic congestion is worse than ever.
If the income generated from these fines was used to pay for the police and projects to improve the road network to ease congestion then most drivers would agree to this. It seems that the income is not being spent on this, rather on measures to monitor drivers and penalise them further.
Motorway speeding fines reach new low
Drivers are facing even higher penalties with the latest change to speeding fines, which were introduced earlier this year. In some situations, motorists could face a possible £2500 fine and a ban if they exceed a permanent 40mph speed limit on a motorway. Currently, the motorway speed limit is 70mph but there is a stretch of the M32 in Bristol where it is currently set to 40mph.
The measure was put in to place following a set of temporary speed cameras due to roadworks that started in July. During this time, some 10,000 motorists were caught speeding over a two-month period. Luckily, at that time, the speeding fines weren’t enforced.
However, at the end of October, the speed limit became permanent and speed cameras were set at 40mph. The maximum speeding fine is £100 but if you are deemed to have exceeded it severely, then the fine can be as much as £2500.
What do you think of the scale of motoring penalties? Is it too much or is it about time people are penalised for these offences? Have we reached a situation where surveillance has gone too far? Let us know in the comments below.
There should always be tolerance of, for example 10% plus 1 mile in cater for very minor and easily achieved excesses. It is generally accepted that a car’s odometer is set at 10% high by the manufacturers – to appear to enhance performance, but it is just so very easy to creep up to 35 in a 30 and 46 in a 40 zone, thereby earning penalty points. Needless to say, a speed during heavy/moderate traffic flow is vastly different to the same speed on the same stretch of road at 0200.
Tell that to the lady who is in a critical condition from getting hit by a van at 3:30am last week in Cambridgeshire!
No competent driver accidentally creeps up to 35 in a 30 or 46 in a 40. We do it because either we’re unable to control the vehicle or, more likely as a deliberate act. If it’s the latter a few points will help the driver think before doing it next time. If it’s the former they’ll eventually be taken off the road, having proven they lack the skills to be on it.
It’s been a while since I took my tests (car 1986, HGV 1992) but I’m pretty sure that even as a novice driver I was expected to demonstrate the ability to stay within the limit and would have failed at 5mph over.
John, I think you mean ‘speedometer’ rather than’ odometer’. If so, you partly defeat you own argument. If the speed as registered by a car’s speedometer is higher than the true speed that should make it less of an excuse to drive at a true speed which is more than the posted speed for a given stretch of road.
The basic point that’s always made in these discussions is that if you don’t break the law, you don’t get fined. It’s completely true as is the fact that technology does enforcement fabulously well although with zero compassion. How long have we had cameras? How long will it take for drivers to get used to them?
I think there is too much emphasis on speed these days, excessive speed can kill but it should be taken into consideration with the likes of road and vehicle conditions, driver experience etc. The speed limits today probably came about in the 50’s and 60’s. Vehicles today have come a long way since then with far better brakes, suspension, tyres and overall build quality, but the limits remain the same. Penalties are just an easy method of raising revenue for cash-strapped councils, government and police forces.
But i think you must agree the standard of driving is shocking, how some drivers ever got a licence i sometime wounder
In certain areas of the country, they would maybe have got their licence because someone else took the test.
If the government were serious about cutting speeding, we would have much more average speed check cameras around – these would cut speeding at a stroke over long distances. BUT they would cut out all that extra revenue.
I’d be happy to see motorway limits raised to 80 mph, though it would greatly increase pollution levels and fuel consumption. In towns, however, I’d like to see limits lowered to 20 mph in residential areas; for all the improvements in braking and tyre technology, the main issue in built-up areas is the pedestrian (esp. child) stepping/running out unexpectedly.
Lower urban speed limits would also act to curb the use of quiet streets as high-speed rat runs (if properly policed) and would return a sense of calm to our neighbourhoods; too often, our environments seem to be dominated by motor vehicles and roads are not the links between our homes and local shops that they ought to be.
Basically, I’d love to see our towns become more Dutch, Danish and German – more pedestrian-friendly; that would also encourage more people to use their feet or bikes for short journeys up to a mile or two, which currently are needlessly made by car.
The 70 MpH limit on motorways and dual carriageways, is an excuse for most motorists to drive at 80 or 90 MpH, so personally, I think the maximunm limit should be dropped to 60 MpH.
No, a lack of compliance or enforcement is not a valid reason to inflict stricter rules on the law-abiding.
20 mph is more dangerous then 30 mph because people know they drive slower so they can spend more time on the smart-phone whilst driving! or look around more instead of keeping their eyes on the road.
Driving too slow is not always better…
Brakes and tyres have had to get better because vehicles have got heavier.
The only thing that hasnt changed over the years is the driver – which has arguably got worse! With numerous distractions and technology which leads to complacency.
People that want speed limits increased may say so because they ‘feel safe’ in their big metal boxes, but if something does happen a human body isnt designed to suddenly stop and your vehicle can’t protect you from that.
But people’s reaction times are still the same!
The issue I have with speed cameras is that they capture only a minuscule moment in time and not persistent speeding over a significant distance. Extreme example: if someone drove from Luton to Leeds on the M1 at 85 mph they would deserve to be fined, whereas if another person drove the same distance at 70 mph, but momentarily accelerated to 85 for say half a mile to mitigate a hazardous situation it would to my mind be unjust for him/her to be penalised. However in the ‘eyes’ of a camera both drivers would be equally culpable. Not justice in my opinion. On the other hand people who jump red lights deserve all they get: no excuse.
Just who drives at 70 MPH on Motorways?, I don’t know anyone including me.
Get real.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve Been in many 90mph traffic jams
Most people see a speed limit as a target and so will go at that speed and so increase their chance of exceeding that speed limit.
When people get ‘caught’ they moan but realistically it wasnt the one and only time they have done it.
How can momentarily accelerating to 85mph from 70mph be ok! The more you speed the more energy you have and physics tells us that it takes a certain distance to stop/get rid of that energy/speed
I totally agree Mel having been put in that situation recently. Overtaking a 4×4 on the M5 I was suddenly being tailgated when the 4×4 increased speed to match mine.(70 mph on speed restrictor setting) Braking not really being a safe option I accelerated to 80ish to get past and pull into the middle lane Whilst this was going on the sat nav speed camera warning screamed. Fortunately no ticket but I sweated for a fortnight as I have a clean license.
Or just stick to 70mph and control the tailgator – why let them control you…
I got fined for having a jaguar mascot on my jaguar.
If your mascot was not on a gimble or was not original equipment then it was illegal. If you hit a pedestrian or cyclist then you could eviserate them. As a result you could find that your insurance company might refuse to pay out fully on any damages claimed and this could result in your bankruptcy. Hopefully the fine was a wake up call.
Speeding drivers should have an opportunity to state mitigating and/or family circumstances before being convicted. Disqualification after a total of 12 points have been reached is far too harsh and should be revised upwards.
The problem is that all too many drivers accumulate 12 points but are then permitted to keep their licences; in my time as a barrister, I was familiar with one driver who had racked up over 20 points but was still on the road as loss of licence would adversely affect his ability to hold down his job. Contrary to the idea that the limit is “too harsh”, my experience is that enforcement is too lenient.
Rubbish…12 points is a deterrent. four misdemeanours is quite enough. drive safe and keep a clean licence. just what is your problem Mr Brown
It should be no pionts,bteak , the law loose your licence court with no licence prison
I could roll out of the pub, drunk and high on drugs, get into my car, not taxed, MOT’d or insured, with 4 bald tyres, defective brakes and lights and drive down a 30 limit road at 60, but as long as I slow down for a speed camera, nobody would be any the wiser. How is that making the roads safer?
Near where I live, there is a speed camera, this year there has been one fatality, within a quarter mile of the camera. The fatality was caused by a drunk driver, who passed by the “safety” camera less than 60 seconds earlier. In my experience, many people slow down for a camera, then accelerate back to their previous speed once past it
Which is why average speed cameras should be used. If every road had one, people would very soon stop treating speed limits as speed targets. Drivers would quickly relearn what 30 mph ‘feels like’ and would be able to drive safely with only an occasional glance at their speedometer.
You could just.. not.. speed.. (shock and horror)
Well said, it’s not that difficult to work out
It must be obvious to all that penalising the hard pressed motorist is and always has been the easiest and fastest way of raising huge amounts of revenue. It has now gone too far as everywhere you look, there are cameras. However, try to find a policeman when you need one and you’ll find it difficult!
Modern cars are technically so far advanced of how they were when the current speed limits were initiated, that speed limits should now be adjusted accordingly.
Who remembers when the so-called “Road Tax” was used to maintain and create roads? If they had continued using the massive revenue generated by motorists for roads and maybe traffic policing, things would be so much better.
The Government should appoint a minister who knows what he/she is doing to concentrate specifically on getting us back to a fair deal for all motorists.
Speed restrictions need to be realistic for the conditions and policed in a reasonable way. Too many times have I seen a speed restriction over many miles for an obstruction or accident which is just not there or for no apparent reason at all. Permanent speed restrictions take absolutely no account of changing situations. It may be necessary to have a speed restriction in day time or in school time but the need for that restriction is not justifiable at night when roads are clearer or in school holidays. It is very annoying when in a traffic queue on a motorway (M25) to have a restriction of 40mph. They’re having a laugh!
Even worse is the mentality of you have to do what you’re told even when there’s no reason for the restriction. I think that most drivers are sensible enough to be able to read the road and adjust their speed accordingly.
Of course speed camera are just not effective on the worse offenders – foreign cars and stolen cars.
Bill, I’m afraid you’re missing the point of speed restrictions when there are queues of cars on a motorway. All the evidence, and decades of research, shows that a restricted speed with less overtaking and accelerating/braking is the most efficient way to move a large number of closely-gathered vehicles across a section of road. It may be frustrating to you and others to know that you COULD be going past all those slow coaches, but it’s that desire to rush past and stop/start that causes the concertina effects frequently seen on motorways as waves of acceleration and braking work their way through lines of traffic.
I also do not share at all your touching confidence in the good sense of the British motoring public; my almost 3 decades of driving in the UK have shown me that far too many drivers are absolutely NOT able to read the road and adjust their speed accordingly.
Finally, the assertion that foreign and stolen cars are the worst offenders is, at least in the places I drive and have driven, laughable. The worst drivers are invariably the same everywhere: young men with inadequate understanding of their own mortality and their responsibility to people beyond themselves… they’re the ones wrapping themselves round trees, not Nigerian diplomats or Polish plumbers, or whoever you had in mind.
Just one problem with common sense – its not all that common!
In terms of motorways, research smart motorways and see exactly how they work – most drivers dont know.
School holidays – are all the kids not allowed outside then!? No school so you cant leave the house!
Only last week a lady was knocked over by a milk delivery van at 3:30am – critical condition.
The speed limit is the speed limit WHY ALL THE FUSS??
What I also would like to see are those drivers that trail along at 30 in a 40 area also using second lanes, also bus lanes (only at times allowed) only a fifth of drivers use bus lanes.
Incdentally before I get comments about older drivers I give my age I am 90!
I use the Drivesmart Pro that I purchased from Petrol price offer and now I never worry as this shows where all the camera’s are hiding:)))
Why not just adhere to the speed limits? Simples! (and a lot cheaper)
The speed limit is just that…a limit & NOT a target. Except where a minimum speed is mandatory, & yes they do exist! there’s nothing to prevent you going at a lower speed than the limit, plus you save fuel by doing so!
Jumping a red light is described above as a minor misdemeanor. Can’t agree, this is potentially fatal.
Could not agree more………could be a killer
Yes potentially, but consider, it is 12:00 in the morning no one on the road and you have to wait wasting time and petrol/diesel. If you drive through the light you are committing an offence, but seriously you are not causing anyone harm. Whereas drive through a red Iight at 8:00am and you could kill someone it should be proportional
You should get a car with the eco system ,it stops your engine,saving you fuel,to me you deserve to be taken off of the road,or do you think your the so special kind of driver? Get real.
The traffic lights should be
smartgiving green to the first car approaching to it and should work in a different pattern then at peak times.Jumping a red light is not a minor misdemeanour!
At 0200, on a round-a-bout with no traffic in sight? Gert real. It’s the stupid proliferation of pointless traffic lights that encourage people to ignore them. Full time traffic lights on round-a-bouts are the WORST thing ever. One minute they are complaining abouit polution, the next they are needlessly stopping us, having us sit there wasting time/fuel and then accelerating away, very often for no good reason and often to simply repeat the whole process a few seconds later at the next red light.
How do local authorities get away with such stupidity? I think that the majority of ALL traffic lights could be done away with. I’ve seen for myself and heard from others about situations where the traffic flows much better w local lights develop a fault and go out.
Get a car with the eco feature,it stops the engine saving fuel and pollution.
cost more fuel to stop and start
I live in Poynton, Cheshire. The main crossroads was for many years traffic light controlled. Queues in the rush hour could extend back up to two miles. A few years ago the central area was redesigned as shared space, and the traffic lights were replaced by two roundels. Although no traffic rules were specified, the vast majority of people treat them like roundabouts and give way to the right. Traffic throughput has increased significantly, queues are now much shorter, and – perhaps most importantly – there hasn’t been a single serious accident there since the traffic lights were removed. Previously it was an accident black spot.
Apply a basic driving skill and anticipate the lights as you approach so theres less chance of stopping
Red means stop if you jumped a red light on your test you would fail if you can’t abide to the rules and regulations hang up your keys
The motorist will be forever seen as a Cash Cow and without the ability to be naughty bulls and naughty cows there would be no regular flow of income into the coffers.
The methods used are in serious need of a rapid reappraisal.
Why does a speed camera on a single carriageway road with a solid double white line down the center on a steep descent need to be set at the same speed limit of 30mph in both directions ? Surely the limit can be raised on the ascent to 40mph if nothing more it would greatly improve the traffic flow and avoid a low gear crawl that over the period of one year with the number of vehicles that use that road (the A5209) there must be massive wastage’s of fuel and many a crawl behind HGV’s that could very safely climb that gradient at a few miles per hour fastest.
The emphasis is on the wrong type of motoring related crime and the persistent offenders that use their mobile phones when out in the rural areas and away from mainstream traffic is becoming a joke. This along with the persistent speed camera good boy/girl/bad boy/girl that will approach and pass whilst behaving for the camera and then rip-it afterwards are a total liability and are sticking two fingers up at the law.
The cameras really do need to be fitted with approach and depart technology imaging and especially at traffic light controlled junctions and at pedestrian crossings.
Come down hard on car thieves and joy-riders, but be more gentle with the experienced drivers who have low insurance claim and low conviction records. Seems fair to me.
Hi Lisa
Interesting article. On a matter of correct English, under para. headed ‘Changing Face of Policing’ it should be ‘fewer police on the streets…’ not ‘less police on the streets…’
The big problem is computers and cameras etc have no common sense therefore cannot use it as policeman maybe would . Wrong doors if caught by a camera are always fined just as you cannot fool a breatherlizer Using common sense has no place in today’s world
Once again drivers are a cash supply to the government. And as for the 5 million private parking tickets what a scam
If you break the rules expect a ticket, there is only one person at fault and thats the driver, happy motoring.
There is always one. Bet you’ve never had so much as a library fine Geoff.
Early last year I got caught doing 57 between the last 2 av speed cameras heading north at Scotch Corner. I know Geoff, outragous..
However, what really rankled was the fact that t I must have travellled up and down that 12 mile stretch of average speed cameras at least 400 times to and from work, in the evening on my way to, early hours on my way home. Road quiet, never much work going on, (probably why they still haven’t finished it,) but still with one eye on the speedo.
400+ times, no problem and then one Sunday morning, for some reason, lack of concentration or maybe not wanting to remain sandwiched between an HGV and a closer than normal concreat safety barrier, I ended up breaking the limit.
And, as someone pointed out above, there is no lee way in the system. Pay the fine or take the silly course, end of story.
That’s right; no leeway. If you don’t want to risk a fine, abide by the law. It’s really very simple.
I’m fed to the back teeth by those who argue that a “lack of concentration” is some kind of excuse – you’re in charge of 1.5 tonnes of steel, travelling at speed: there’s no room for any loss of concentration, no flexibility on safety at all.
For too long the justice system in the UK has refused to deal properly with motoring offences (probably because MPs, Lords and members of the judiciary fear “there but for the grace of God go we”), by treating them as the serious transgressions they are. In that environment, no one takes their responsibilities seriously, because the signal from society is that it’s a “minor transgression”. No it’s not.
Hi Lawrence, you probably won’t read this as you have had your twopeneth, I was a HGV driver for 40+ years and got caught twice for parking and the same for speeding, obviously this was for doing over 40mph on a 60mph road.
I’d like another pennies worth please. I do 40-45 thousand miles a year in my job on the railways. In my experiance, HGV drivers are amongst the WORST on the road, (and I have held what was then a class 2 and have also been a driving instructor.) Anyone wanting to drive an HGV should be required to undergo some kind of psychological testing to ensure that they have the correct mentality to drive the most dangerous vehicals on the road.
I have been forced off the road by HGVs while on my push bike! And I’d love a talk with the idiot that allowed the speed limit for HGVs on A roads to be raised from 40 to 50. They are regularly doing 60 on A roads now and practically impossible to pass.
As an ex driving instructor you should know the speed limits of vehicles on any road which by your reply you don’t and 60 on a vehicle limited to 56 is only possible down hill, reading between the lines, 40 -45 thousand miles with your job driving for the railways, I agree some drivers are rubbish but there are more car drives that are worse including driving instructors with a child on their laps while driving.
I would put money on you being one of those drivers who sits in the outside lane of motorways doing 69. I have been driving through Germany about three times a year for 30 plus years and rarely drop below 100 mph with cars passing me all the time. Cameras and traffic cops are virtually non existent on the autobahns so you can concentrate on driving and if you want a lesson in lane discipline go to Germany – they are by far the best drivers I’ve seen and I’ve driven in most of Europe, large parts of USA, South Africa and Australia.
Our 70 limit is a sad joke – just look at how cars have improved since it was introduced. If people can’t handle reasonable speed then just keep off the motorways and let the rest of us get on with it.
Protect & Serve? No, prosecute & prosper!
“minor misdemeanors, such as not paying on toll roads or jumping a red light”
Are you serious? Jumping a red light a misdemeanour?
Don’t speed, don’t jump red lights, don’t block box junctions and Hey! You don’t get a fine. There’s a little bonus too that the roads are safer and more efficient for everybody else.
If you obey the rules you don’t get fined. Jumping a red light could have serious consequences and , if not penalised, could lead to more serious crimes. We car drivers have a duty not to break the law. If we drive within the rules there would be no need for fines and the police could concentrate on serious crime.
The problem with speed fines on motorways is the whole process gives a greater monetary return with minimum resources because it can be completely automated. Compare this with the poor standard of driving on all the other roads where traffic travelling in opposite directions are more likely to be fatal but apprehending potential fatal drivers requires more human analysis, therefore more expensive resources,
Where is all the money going to, from those fined for parking on private property? We need answers. I received a PCN for stopping on a plot of land in a city for 2 minutes whilst making a mobile call. I appealed, and to POPLA, but lost my case. That cost me £100! I believe that POPLA is not an Ombudsman but is in league with the parking pirates.
If its on private land it’s not a PCN, it’s an invoice from a private (pirate?) company for a service you used. I’d say that you spent 2 minutes reading the contract (the sign at the entry), then decided not to accept the terms and moved on.
Why aren’t motorists who deliberatly park all over double yellow lines also penalised for doing so,I live on a road junction near a school and with the inconsidersate parked cars parked everywhere makes this road junction lethal
A lot of the motorists need harsh treatment,they put all of us experienced drivers lives at risk,women never indicate or give way,neither do the drivers who have just passed their test,god help us.
The interpretation of these statistics is incorrect. The interpretation provided here makes it seem as though a third of our population has received one. It is much more likely to be the case that a smaller percentage of the population has received multiple penalty notices.
Agree. Jumping a red light is not minor. Can also be fatal to pedestrians.
There has to be a speed limit the number is debatable but there has to be a line. Realistically the technology will continue to increase as the number of police reduces. Sadly the camera is a frozen moment in time with no escape and no reasoning. This alienates most drivers. I have no problem with fines and believe the speeding courses are both useful retraining as well as essentially a 5 hour custodial sentence. If there is no human intervention in the charging process I believe the existing ‘lower speed’ transgressions should carry the fine/course but not the points. If people transgress 10 times a year it is their waste of time that will eventually register. £100 is a lot to me but nothing to the wealthy however time is proportionate in value. Finally only a police officer should be able to make the more considered and serious charges involving points?
Why is it that the motorways, which are some of our safest roads, always seem to have lower speed limits than normal roads. When the “smart” motorway system was being worked on in Nottinghamshire and South Yorkshire there was an 18 mile section with narrower – but still three lanes – and concrete worker protection barriers but a reduced speed of 50 mph for the whole length, even though there was rarely active work taking place in more than one place and at weekends no work at all. All of this was enforced by average speed cameras. Now that the smart motorway work is finished I regularly see reduced speed limits on certain sections, even though the traffic levels are not high enough to warrant them. Smart motorways will only ease congestion if drivers use lanes correctly. There is still the problem of middle lane drivers, who now sit in the next to fast lane, leaving two almost unused lanes on the inside.The other problem area is the M42 where the gantries keep swapping speeds, causing drivers to brake and then speed up, again with no obvious reason, except perhaps to catch drivers out. To me a lot of the recent changes are more do to with revenue generation than safety and traffic flow. Lastly static speed cameras are meant to be clearly visible. So why is it that quite a number are positioned behind trees, bridges, traffic signs etc. or not painted bright yellow?
Its all about making money from the biggest cash cow on the planet. We should all protest that the speed limits are now set to low and should all be reinstated. 40mph on a motorway what does that say. Motorists are encouraged to break speed limits.
I have always found it curious that the imposition of speed limits on roads is purely arbitrary. Every other law is – essentially – based upon damage to the state or individual. In other words, it is obvious that theft, fraud, murder etc., directly result in injury (physical or financial) of some kind, is therefore unacceptable and thus illegal in a ‘civilised’ community. Deciding that a speed limit on a road should be a particular figure and exceeding that figure by 1 mph is a criminal act, is a heinous offence and subject to the full weight of the law does appear to me to be more than a little dogmatic.
It is clear that the only truly safe speed for a motor vehicle is 0 mph. Who then decides that 70mph on a motorway is ‘safe’ but 80mph is ‘unsafe’? What computation is employed? (I believe it is common knowledge that the 70mph limit on the M1 was established after a certain motor manufacturer began to use it as a test track. There was no speed limit when it was initially opened. So, because someone unknown panicked fifty years ago, we now have the magic figure of 70 applied enthusiastically across the entire nation.)
Many of us are regularly entertained by the numbers posted, apparently at random, on the gantries on the M25 between J12 and J16. While we crawl around at an average speed of, perhaps, 5mph, we can see the gantry signs limiting us to 40mph. The next might display 50mph, the one after that – what does it matter? Coming home to Ruislip from Gatwick at midnight on a Saturday, however, the entire motorway at my disposal, I am implicitly instructed to adhere to 70mph. It really is a nonsense.
Ultimately, I am sure that most motorists only want to get from one place to another quickly and safely. I have an ordinary, modern car. It has SatNav, cruise, ABS, traction control, excellent headlights, traffic reports on the radio and a six speed automatic gearbox. Why letting it settle down to 75mph on a clear motorway should put me on a parr with Attila the Hun I cannot comprehend.
One last point. Most of the time we do just want to get home, Why is it that those who make (up) these rules never learn from other nations? In the US it is common to allow turning right (left, in our case) against a red light. Also, in the evenings, junctions will often have flashing red traffic lights, permitting vehicles to ‘proceed with caution’ rather than waiting when there is little or no other traffic.
The rule continues to be – hammer the motorist, it’s all he deserves…
I hit an obstruction on the M25, which spun me round, to end up backwards against the centre wall backwards. The obstruction? The short ISOLATED so-called safety guard rail alongside gantry supports (and bridges) on motorways. Two very helpful young couples who stopped to warn the traffic of the accident both said they had someone in their families who did the same thing. I mentioned the details to somebody else recently, who said one of his friends had the nearside wheels of his car drive up the sloping lead-in on one of these rails, and it turned his car over.
Strangely, the Police who turned up hardly asked me anything. It has occurred to me lately- are they trying to hide the danger of these things?
Think about it. They are the only solitary fixture you can hit on a motorway, regardless of the reason.
I shall try to get an accident report about my accident to see what is mentioned.
If you have had or heard of anyone who has hit one of these “guard rails”, please report it to Petrol Prices. I have a suspicion that these collisions could be numerous, but road authorities don’t want to know, because they would have to take huge numbers of them away, and fit something safer.
My bugbear is bus lane cameras when at night in bad weather on unfamiliar roads it’s easy to get caught out people don’t drive in bus lanes to save time they do so through genuine mistake first offence should be a warning letter next offence with the same site should be fined but councils make millions from these fines it’s an cash cow.
“The maximum speeding fine is £100 but if you are deemed to have exceeded it severely, then the fine can be as much as £2500” – that doesn’t even make sense. “The maximum is this much, but it can be even more.” ???
There should always be tolerance of, for example 10% plus 1 mile in cater for very minor and easily achieved excesses. It is generally accepted that a car’s odometer is set at 10% high by the manufacturers – to appear to enhance performance, but it is just so very easy to creep up to 35 in a 30 and 46 in a 40 zone, thereby earning penalty points. Needless to say, a speed during heavy/moderate traffic flow is vastly different to the same speed on the same stretch of road at 0200.
Tell that to the lady who is in a critical condition from getting hit by a van at 3:30am last week in Cambridgeshire!
No competent driver accidentally creeps up to 35 in a 30 or 46 in a 40. We do it because either we’re unable to control the vehicle or, more likely as a deliberate act. If it’s the latter a few points will help the driver think before doing it next time. If it’s the former they’ll eventually be taken off the road, having proven they lack the skills to be on it.
It’s been a while since I took my tests (car 1986, HGV 1992) but I’m pretty sure that even as a novice driver I was expected to demonstrate the ability to stay within the limit and would have failed at 5mph over.
John, I think you mean ‘speedometer’ rather than’ odometer’. If so, you partly defeat you own argument. If the speed as registered by a car’s speedometer is higher than the true speed that should make it less of an excuse to drive at a true speed which is more than the posted speed for a given stretch of road.
The basic point that’s always made in these discussions is that if you don’t break the law, you don’t get fined. It’s completely true as is the fact that technology does enforcement fabulously well although with zero compassion. How long have we had cameras? How long will it take for drivers to get used to them?
I think there is too much emphasis on speed these days, excessive speed can kill but it should be taken into consideration with the likes of road and vehicle conditions, driver experience etc. The speed limits today probably came about in the 50’s and 60’s. Vehicles today have come a long way since then with far better brakes, suspension, tyres and overall build quality, but the limits remain the same. Penalties are just an easy method of raising revenue for cash-strapped councils, government and police forces.
But i think you must agree the standard of driving is shocking, how some drivers ever got a licence i sometime wounder
In certain areas of the country, they would maybe have got their licence because someone else took the test.
If the government were serious about cutting speeding, we would have much more average speed check cameras around – these would cut speeding at a stroke over long distances. BUT they would cut out all that extra revenue.
I’d be happy to see motorway limits raised to 80 mph, though it would greatly increase pollution levels and fuel consumption. In towns, however, I’d like to see limits lowered to 20 mph in residential areas; for all the improvements in braking and tyre technology, the main issue in built-up areas is the pedestrian (esp. child) stepping/running out unexpectedly.
Lower urban speed limits would also act to curb the use of quiet streets as high-speed rat runs (if properly policed) and would return a sense of calm to our neighbourhoods; too often, our environments seem to be dominated by motor vehicles and roads are not the links between our homes and local shops that they ought to be.
Basically, I’d love to see our towns become more Dutch, Danish and German – more pedestrian-friendly; that would also encourage more people to use their feet or bikes for short journeys up to a mile or two, which currently are needlessly made by car.
The 70 MpH limit on motorways and dual carriageways, is an excuse for most motorists to drive at 80 or 90 MpH, so personally, I think the maximunm limit should be dropped to 60 MpH.
No, a lack of compliance or enforcement is not a valid reason to inflict stricter rules on the law-abiding.
20 mph is more dangerous then 30 mph because people know they drive slower so they can spend more time on the smart-phone whilst driving! or look around more instead of keeping their eyes on the road.
Driving too slow is not always better…
Brakes and tyres have had to get better because vehicles have got heavier.
The only thing that hasnt changed over the years is the driver – which has arguably got worse! With numerous distractions and technology which leads to complacency.
People that want speed limits increased may say so because they ‘feel safe’ in their big metal boxes, but if something does happen a human body isnt designed to suddenly stop and your vehicle can’t protect you from that.
But people’s reaction times are still the same!
The issue I have with speed cameras is that they capture only a minuscule moment in time and not persistent speeding over a significant distance. Extreme example: if someone drove from Luton to Leeds on the M1 at 85 mph they would deserve to be fined, whereas if another person drove the same distance at 70 mph, but momentarily accelerated to 85 for say half a mile to mitigate a hazardous situation it would to my mind be unjust for him/her to be penalised. However in the ‘eyes’ of a camera both drivers would be equally culpable. Not justice in my opinion. On the other hand people who jump red lights deserve all they get: no excuse.
Just who drives at 70 MPH on Motorways?, I don’t know anyone including me.
Get real.
I couldn’t agree more. I’ve Been in many 90mph traffic jams
Most people see a speed limit as a target and so will go at that speed and so increase their chance of exceeding that speed limit.
When people get ‘caught’ they moan but realistically it wasnt the one and only time they have done it.
How can momentarily accelerating to 85mph from 70mph be ok! The more you speed the more energy you have and physics tells us that it takes a certain distance to stop/get rid of that energy/speed
I totally agree Mel having been put in that situation recently. Overtaking a 4×4 on the M5 I was suddenly being tailgated when the 4×4 increased speed to match mine.(70 mph on speed restrictor setting) Braking not really being a safe option I accelerated to 80ish to get past and pull into the middle lane Whilst this was going on the sat nav speed camera warning screamed. Fortunately no ticket but I sweated for a fortnight as I have a clean license.
Or just stick to 70mph and control the tailgator – why let them control you…
I got fined for having a jaguar mascot on my jaguar.
If your mascot was not on a gimble or was not original equipment then it was illegal. If you hit a pedestrian or cyclist then you could eviserate them. As a result you could find that your insurance company might refuse to pay out fully on any damages claimed and this could result in your bankruptcy. Hopefully the fine was a wake up call.
Speeding drivers should have an opportunity to state mitigating and/or family circumstances before being convicted. Disqualification after a total of 12 points have been reached is far too harsh and should be revised upwards.
The problem is that all too many drivers accumulate 12 points but are then permitted to keep their licences; in my time as a barrister, I was familiar with one driver who had racked up over 20 points but was still on the road as loss of licence would adversely affect his ability to hold down his job. Contrary to the idea that the limit is “too harsh”, my experience is that enforcement is too lenient.
Rubbish…12 points is a deterrent. four misdemeanours is quite enough. drive safe and keep a clean licence. just what is your problem Mr Brown
It should be no pionts,bteak , the law loose your licence court with no licence prison
I could roll out of the pub, drunk and high on drugs, get into my car, not taxed, MOT’d or insured, with 4 bald tyres, defective brakes and lights and drive down a 30 limit road at 60, but as long as I slow down for a speed camera, nobody would be any the wiser. How is that making the roads safer?
Near where I live, there is a speed camera, this year there has been one fatality, within a quarter mile of the camera. The fatality was caused by a drunk driver, who passed by the “safety” camera less than 60 seconds earlier. In my experience, many people slow down for a camera, then accelerate back to their previous speed once past it
Which is why average speed cameras should be used. If every road had one, people would very soon stop treating speed limits as speed targets. Drivers would quickly relearn what 30 mph ‘feels like’ and would be able to drive safely with only an occasional glance at their speedometer.
You could just.. not.. speed.. (shock and horror)
Well said, it’s not that difficult to work out
It must be obvious to all that penalising the hard pressed motorist is and always has been the easiest and fastest way of raising huge amounts of revenue. It has now gone too far as everywhere you look, there are cameras. However, try to find a policeman when you need one and you’ll find it difficult!
Modern cars are technically so far advanced of how they were when the current speed limits were initiated, that speed limits should now be adjusted accordingly.
Who remembers when the so-called “Road Tax” was used to maintain and create roads? If they had continued using the massive revenue generated by motorists for roads and maybe traffic policing, things would be so much better.
The Government should appoint a minister who knows what he/she is doing to concentrate specifically on getting us back to a fair deal for all motorists.
Speed restrictions need to be realistic for the conditions and policed in a reasonable way. Too many times have I seen a speed restriction over many miles for an obstruction or accident which is just not there or for no apparent reason at all. Permanent speed restrictions take absolutely no account of changing situations. It may be necessary to have a speed restriction in day time or in school time but the need for that restriction is not justifiable at night when roads are clearer or in school holidays. It is very annoying when in a traffic queue on a motorway (M25) to have a restriction of 40mph. They’re having a laugh!
Even worse is the mentality of you have to do what you’re told even when there’s no reason for the restriction. I think that most drivers are sensible enough to be able to read the road and adjust their speed accordingly.
Of course speed camera are just not effective on the worse offenders – foreign cars and stolen cars.
Bill, I’m afraid you’re missing the point of speed restrictions when there are queues of cars on a motorway. All the evidence, and decades of research, shows that a restricted speed with less overtaking and accelerating/braking is the most efficient way to move a large number of closely-gathered vehicles across a section of road. It may be frustrating to you and others to know that you COULD be going past all those slow coaches, but it’s that desire to rush past and stop/start that causes the concertina effects frequently seen on motorways as waves of acceleration and braking work their way through lines of traffic.
I also do not share at all your touching confidence in the good sense of the British motoring public; my almost 3 decades of driving in the UK have shown me that far too many drivers are absolutely NOT able to read the road and adjust their speed accordingly.
Finally, the assertion that foreign and stolen cars are the worst offenders is, at least in the places I drive and have driven, laughable. The worst drivers are invariably the same everywhere: young men with inadequate understanding of their own mortality and their responsibility to people beyond themselves… they’re the ones wrapping themselves round trees, not Nigerian diplomats or Polish plumbers, or whoever you had in mind.
Just one problem with common sense – its not all that common!
In terms of motorways, research smart motorways and see exactly how they work – most drivers dont know.
School holidays – are all the kids not allowed outside then!? No school so you cant leave the house!
Only last week a lady was knocked over by a milk delivery van at 3:30am – critical condition.
The speed limit is the speed limit WHY ALL THE FUSS??
What I also would like to see are those drivers that trail along at 30 in a 40 area also using second lanes, also bus lanes (only at times allowed) only a fifth of drivers use bus lanes.
Incdentally before I get comments about older drivers I give my age I am 90!
I use the Drivesmart Pro that I purchased from Petrol price offer and now I never worry as this shows where all the camera’s are hiding:)))
Why not just adhere to the speed limits? Simples! (and a lot cheaper)
The speed limit is just that…a limit & NOT a target. Except where a minimum speed is mandatory, & yes they do exist! there’s nothing to prevent you going at a lower speed than the limit, plus you save fuel by doing so!