We wanted to get some numbers on the savings and benefits that you get from buying and owning an electric vehicle. That’s why we’ve heavily researched into electric vehicles, and the industries surrounding them to see what needs to change for government targets to happen. We haven’t just looked at power and the design itself, we’ve looked at insurance, repairs and more.
What we were looking for
We realised that something in the insurance industry wasn’t right. Insurance companies hadn’t taken into account how much safer electric vehicles were compared to combustion engines, as their high torque (we’ll explain this later) allows them to manoeuvre around potential hazards quicker. We went around and got some insurance quotes for an average person, as well as repair costs, costs of filling up, longevity, second-hand value and so much more.
We’ve compiled all of these costs together to provide you with a comprehensive review of whether electric cars are worth the money at the moment for a standard motorist, and also analysed what needs to change in the industry to meet government targets by 2040.
Insurance costs
- Social and single place of work
- 8000 annual mileage
- Drives in peak times
- Same address
- Employed
- 43-year-old female
- Clean licence
- £500 excess
- Non telematics policies
- Kept on driveway
Here’s the cars and their quotes, listed with the provider as well
| Electric | Combustion |
|---|---|
| Nissan Leaf – £289.85 – LV | Hyundai i30 – £202.24 – LV |
| BMW i3 – £339.21 – Hastings Direct | BMW X2 – £315.60 – LV |
| KIA SOUL EV – £307.60 – LV | Kia Soul – £274.60 – Hastings |
| Renault Zoe – £286.38 – LV | Renault Clio – £206.13 – Hastings |
| Tesla Model X 90D – £1,583.68 – Admiral | Audi Q5 – £373.43 – LV |
| Tesla Model S 100D – £1,824 –a choice | Mercedes AMG E63S – £529.12 – LV |
There’s a large discrepancy between the Kia Soul and the Kia Soul EV. Same size, same make of car only the Kia Soul insurance was £274.60, and the Kia Soul EV was £307.60. The cars are the same size and shape and the lower horsepower, and higher torque on the EV make it safer in real life as it has a smaller engine.
Even though it is an electric vehicle and therefore has more expensive parts to replace or maintain, the lower risk small engine size means that a considerable amount should have been knocked off the price. If there is an issue with the battery, then the warranty covers it for ten years or 100,000 miles, up to 70% degradation. The 70% degradation means that the warranty only covers the repairs if the battery capacity is less than 70%.
These quotes are all for cars of a similar technical spec regarding power and capability, even though one of the cars was combustion and the other electric.
Matt Oliver, spokesperson for GoCompare Car Insurance, said: “It’s easy to assume that electric cars are futuristic technology that’s simply unaffordable for the average household. It’s still early days for electric car technology, and you’ll find fewer car insurers offering cover on these vehicles. That’s why it’s so important to compare insurance premiums for electric cars so that you can find the best price possible, as fewer insurers covering electric vehicles, means less competition and higher premiums, so you might have to pay more than you would for a standard car.”
One thing that PetrolPrices wondered was due to the higher torque in electric vehicles, were insurance companies seeing the high numbers and placing a higher price. For those who don’t understand torque, the simplest way to explain it is the pull that you feel when you accelerate sharply on a car. For a more detailed explanation, have a look here.
The higher the torque, the quicker it is able to accelerate and therefore surely it would be quicker to maneuver out of harm’s way. Electric cars also have a much lower top speed, with most sitting around 80 mph meaning that the risks associated with higher speeds simply don’t happen in an electric vehicle. The list price of vehicles may be what is driving up these costs, but the massive difference in price between the Mercedes, which has a list price starting at £80,000 and the Tesla, which starts at £90,000 is larger than the price difference between the Kia Soul and the Kia Soul EV, which have a price difference of the same spread, £10,000.
The repair industry
One of our partners, WhoCanFixMyCar.com worked with us to help understand the electric car industry in terms of repairs. One interesting point that was picked up was that because the knowledge in the industry is unknown, the mechanical engineers within the industry are struggling to repair some electric cars as the whole structure of a combustion car is completely different to an electric vehicle.
Craig Stein the owner of Steins Garage, winner of the Best Garage in Scotland 2016 said “Car’s are developing quicker than some garages can keep up with and it will important that the right training is put in place over the next few years otherwise the price difference between fixing an electric car and a combustion engine car might actually put people off buying electric.”
There’s almost no knowledge of an approximate cost for any repair as one garage may have done a fix before, but most of the time due to the lack of training and knowledge there is a higher cost than anticipated due to the parts, the labour and also the time taken to look into the problem.
Al Mia, owner of Autowerke Garage, finalist in the Best Garage of London 2017, brought up a point about the Teslas: “The Tesla Model x 100D and Tesla Model S 100D spend much more time in the garage that most cars as the time it takes to get a new parts is longer than almost every other car model. This is because there are only a few distribution centres in the UK. Furthermore, if the part is not in stock, it will have to be ordered from the factory in California and flown to the UK, extending the delay further.” For combustion car parts, a simple trip to the local distributor solves all issues as most cars use similar parts, for example a BMW might use a Ford clutch, and a Renault could have a Citroen indicator.
With Tesla cars, all the parts are specially made for Teslas only, and while they are lovely, if not premium, it costs more to replace than a standard part. If something goes badly wrong with the battery, a specialist Tesla crew is sent out as the battery could potentially be too dangerous for a standard engineer to deal with. As seen above the insurance for a Tesla is pretty high, and this is probably one of the main factors of that.
Kyle Burke, owner of Eagle Autos, winner of the Best Garage in London 2017 said “There are a lot more electric cars on the road than there were only a couple of years ago which means we have had to adapt and learn about repairing new components. The way an electric car is put together is different from a combustion-engined car, which means some garages might charge significantly more money for labour as they need more time to figure out how to make the fix.”
Overall other experts in the repair industry have highlighted to us that the training and knowledge of electric car fixes is lacking and people are looking to encourage and expand their knowledge but with more and more car companies announcing new electric models and designs everyday the car manufacturers are striding ahead of the rest of the industry to try and validate themselves as being part of the ‘electric movement’ but sadly the repair industry is struggling to keep up.
Charging vs filling up
For this comparison, we chose to look at the cost per mile for charging a car vs the cost per mile for filling up a car with petrol. We chose a Renault Zoe vs a Renault Clio for this one and looked at the cost of charging at home per mile, the cost of charging publicly per mile and finally the cost per mile on petrol.
To charge the Renault Zoe at home to full charge overnight, the cost per mile is 4.2p compared to around 12p per mile on public chargers, according to data from WhatCar?. Taking a price of 121.3ppl, the cost to fill up would be 10.4p a mile for a Renault Clio. While you’re saving a considerably large amount for overnight charging for charging a Renault Zoe, if you need to fill up on the road it could be costing you a lot more.
With electric, the price shouldn’t change too much, and you can be fairly sure of a consistent price year round, but with petrol the price changes almost daily, and if the price of oil goes up then you can see the effect this has all around.
Another issue in this peripheral is the availability of electric chargers. With 9000 devices covering 5,500 spots, the availability of charging where you need it is not at its full potential yet. There are petrol stations spread across the length and breadth of the country but not yet for EV charging points.
Tax, grants and charges
Electric vehicles are exempt from VED tax unless they have a list price of over £40,000 at which it is £310 a year for five years. After that, there is no more VED tax.
On the other hand, diesels that emit more CO2 are required to pay higher tax based on their emissions ratings. The Renault Clio, which has a CO2 emission of 160 CO2 g/km, first-year road tax is £160 for a single 12-month payment, and after that, it is £140 for a single 12-month payment.
So, is it worth it?
The car manufacturing industry is moving at a faster pace than the peripherals can keep up. The car service industry is struggling to understand all the new cars and parts are few and far between. Labour costs are more because the build of an EV is completely different to a combustion car.
Insurance premiums are higher because of the numbers associated with electric vehicles, yet the less risks associated with EV’s should be lower. Insurance companies should review their policies on insuring electric vehicles and see whether the industry is fair towards them.
Yet, despite all this, it seems that the attraction of electric has not decreased yet, people are still interested in the lower running costs and the lack of VED. If you have an electric car for 4 years your running costs will be lower, our example case of the Kia Soul EV was £2,062.40 for 4 years costs whereas the Kia Soul was £6,097.40. However taking into consideration the initial list price, the Kia Soul EV is £25,995 for the entry level model, with the Kia Soul priced at £14,525 for the same model spec as the EV. At the moment, combustion engines have a lower depreciation after 4 years, with the Kia Soul at 45% and the Kia Soul EV at 63%. These values are an approximate and are based on 2018 models, but even so the depreciation shows how much the value of electric cars go down.
Electric has a future, but whether it is affordable for most people in the present is not attainable at the moment. Even with all the government help and advice, the UK is simply not ready for electric vehicles. The infrastructure of millions of electric cars charging at the same time has the potential to push pressure onto the electricity generators which could very easily lead to a national crisis.
What needs to change is for electric cars to become cheaper initially but also for the longevity of them to be understood. Hyundai won’t give out the battery replacement cost because they believe their batteries will last forever. Most combustion cars last 16 years before they are scrapped, and while electric has not been around for long enough to give a fair judgement, it is forecast that they will be able to run for a lot longer.
As a pensioner running a 6 year old Focus there is no way I could ever contemplate buying electric. Firstly the price and secondly the range. About twice a month I do a 275 mile round trip in the day, most at 70ish mph on motorways. Half a tank of diesel needed therefore no need to worry about a fill up, but no problem if I do start with less that half a tank, 10 minutes max to top up. Now are there any of the lower priced electric cars i.e. under £8,000 that can guarantee that distance on one charge even if fully charged before setting out?
Living out in the country, electric is a no brainer and if anyone is convinced by the article above, good luck.
I have 3 concerns on EV’s
1) on average the used car market sells car at approx 6/7 years old, at this age they become affordable to the majority of us. A standard car battery last 5 years before its time to replace due to the modern cars electronics, your average size car will take a battery in the region of £100 to buy. Manufactures are not really discussing battery life on EV’s presumably its the same as a “normal” car and can change dependant on Use/Charging/ Temp, Etc . They are saying 8 years max which would indicate that Joe average has approximately 1/2 years battery life on their new second hand car (6/7 years old) if you look at a Golf E it has 27 Batteries in the boot.
8 – Master batteries @ £451.00 each ( £3,608.00)
9 – slave batteries @ £406.00 each ( £3,654.00
10 – smaller slave batteries @ 367.00 each ( 3,670.00)
Big Gulp! can you change one battery in the run or do you have to change the whole section, for example one master (Which I doubt I would guess it would have to be the whole section) at £451.00 or all of the masters @ a whopping £3,608 excluding the fitting.
So a 2nd hand 6/7 year old EV could cost you an absolute fortune in Batteries. Could you imagine having to change them all in the time you own it £7,26200, wow to think I moaned at £110 for my battery last year!
2) Charging points! if you have a quick look at the streets around you they a littered with parked cars, some on drives which will be ok, but what about the thousands of houses that don’t have a drive, rows of terraced or town houses as they are called now. once we go all electric you would need charging points for every car in that street, other than that you will be dangling cables across pavements, not really ideal. Also at present a home charge cable for the Golf E is £781.00 and the charge station one is £306.00 so make sure you cables on the 6/7 year old used EV are there and working otherwise more expense (hypothetical).
3) Electricity! by the time all this happens I will be in my late 70,s and at a guess will not have a car, so when all the diesel & petrol engines have gone and we are on super clean EV’s where does the government get its tax from fuel, what “fuel” does an EV run on “electricity” so does that mean the VAT on electricity will go up or more than likely just the cost per unit so the government can replenish some of the lost duty, which means all of us would pay it including those who no longer own a car so every time you switch on your TV or boil your kettle you are paying through the nose of your electric, at least at present those of you who don’t own cars are not paying extra for fuel duty in the future it looks like we might be.
Any one know much about horse and carriages? Your blacksmith might even make a return to the high street to shod our horses and re-rim our carriage wheels, but I suppose we will be stopped using them as well due to methane gas in the environment from your horses and blacksmith smoke in our lungs.
Litium batteries are totally different from Lead Acid batteries: they last for 100,000’s of miles with very slow deterioration of capacity.
Which is why manufactures are giving them a “possible” 8 year life span, the point being they wont last forever, unfortunately batteries will not last the life of the car even if looked after with the tech we have in place at present, they will be the weak link as they are in any device but they will improve, they will have to.
EV’s are coming no matter what is said about them, the internal combustion engine has done its time, it has hardly changed sine it was invented, new times are ahead, I wouldn’t go with 100,000’s of miles though, maybe Tesla but the rest; Well!
I don’t know of any manufacture who have put the word “definatly” on that, its all approximately and when they finally do, which they will, it will be the same as they MPG claims they make which none of us ever reach. however they do say it would lose “approx.” (there’s that word again) 1/4 of its capacity at around 50,000 mls dependant on use and charge cycles, so that kind of contradicts what they say about 100,000 mls, some manufactures are only giving a 60,000 mls life span or 5 years. Confused… absolutely!
I would hazard a guess as it also depends on how much the car uses for its own electrics and Tech as well just purely powering the vehicle forwards.
Its an interesting subject which will bring a lot of changes.
Manufacturers do not give the batteries a “possible life span of 8 years” they give them a guaranteed life span of 8 years which means that most, if not all will last much longer than 8 years. A taxi firm down south, in Cornwall I believe, who do hundreds of thousands of miles only replaced their cars because the insides were wearing out, not the batteries.
I read about the Taxi firm as well if I remember it rightly aren’t the batteries still on full power which knocks into touch the capacity drop by a 1/4 at 50k and the 100,000 mile life span, it’s actually a warranty of 8 Years, but if you have a charge lead has problem its only the lead is covered, you might get consequential damage depending on how the case is presented, if you over charge them, no warranty, if you fit any kind of aftermarket electrical kit to them, no warranty, if you let the batteries go completely flat, no warranty, if the batteries have been interfered with from an independent garage, no warranty – 8 years is a long time to own a car for, not very often you see an 8 year old car at a dealership and I am sure there are plenty of side steps the manufacturer can take as with standard car warranty to get out of footing the complete charge.
The most recent one is a T the ECU has in it when the car has been chipped, you can get the ECU reset to manufacturer spec but what a lot of people do not know is the T stays there, so future warranty claims on this vehicle could be jeopardised should the manufacturer wish, and at the moment they ARE using this to side step paying out 100% instead they are going for 60/40 splits, you pay the 60%.
But as I said is all new Tech not really time tested in real time, I am sure a lot was said about the combustion engine as it was being introduced, one being we would die if we went over 25mph! don’t think that was really true was it.
Most if not all EVs have a battery management system (BMS) which does not allow it to be over or under charged, the car may stop and say that it is empty but in fact it isn’t, I’m not sure or the figures but the 30 KW Leaf has in fact got a 32 or 33Kw battery but is restricted to 30, other EV’s are the same.
A guaranteed life span on a battery does NOT mean full operational capacity up to the last year. It just means it will still do its job ‘within specification.’ What that normally means is that it’s ‘half-life’ is about four years. So, after 4 years it is about 50% efficient, after another 4 years, it is about 25% efficient compared to new. So will an 8 year-old battery continue to shove your EV along? Absolutely! You might be disappointed about how far, though..
Hence why they are already finding there way in to home battery banks as they are no longer fit for purpose in vehicles
The internal combustion engine “has hardly changed since it was invented”?????????? Seriously? The levels of efficiency and low emissions, not to mention refinement, of modern engines are incredible.
Are you certain ? Robert Malcolm Kay, I believe you are exaggerating quite a bit there, and could usefully be more specific. Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePo4) as used on say the former modec electric van can do 3000 full cycles and still have 80% energy retention on full charge. But lower max power delivery possible from these, and only 70% of the energy storage kWh per unit weight, and as EV makers regard these as key parameters they use “Lithium Ion” (lithium cobalt oxygen based) as per a mobile phone or laptop. After 300 cycles down to 80%. That is why the lease charge for leased battery models (e.g. Renault Zoe) costs so much more for slightly higher mileages – check it out. I do think EVs rock, I also think gas turbine range extenders just around the corner, will make a huge difference
Good data here on EV battery degradation (based on some of the best long-term data available so far): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_i4ihsJ1w
Electric cars will not be viable until the idea of charg in a fixed battery in favour of a battery exchange system.
Absolute rubbish. That is why they are starting to show up in home battery banks for those who use solar panel on their roofs.
I’m a pensioner too, at 65, but I find my quiet and comfy electric Nissan Leaf very relaxing for long drives, and after 6 years and 60,000 electric miles, there is no way I would go back to infernal combustion. Sure I have to stop twice on a 200 mile journey to rapid charge the car, but as we get older, we all need to pee, don’t we, and it isn’t as if the extra time is critical.
On a 275 return trip, that is 138 miles each leg: Most electric cars like my 30 kWh Leaf will do that with one 20 minute rapid charge going out, and one coming home, with a charge at the destination whilst busy doing other things.
Is that 40 minutes really so important to you?
But have you also considered taking the train on longer trips: with a senior railcard its also very comfortable. Why not?
I agree with Daveb. I have a VW Passat 2003 and had no problem with emissions at the MOT and It has two oil changes a year and on full service at the same time as the MOT so until I can buy a electric car like the Passat or Mazda 6 and at the same price and can do the same millage as on a tank of diesel it buy an electric car is a no brainer.
Agreed. I looked last year at an electric VW Golf. The insurance premium was enough to send me to a petrol version instead.
You must be looking in the wrong place then, my Hyundai Ioniq cost me £174 per year with Aviva, fully comp, 15000 miles per year and £150 excess.
My Lotus only costs £170 per year.
I’m afraid I’ll be sticking with diesel The Reason like David B has said range of driving far too short in electric my Citroen C3 1.6 eHDI returns 74Mpg on a run 60 in town I’m a Driving Instructor So to achieve 60 in town while Teaching is Very Good I feel
The cost to make a battery for Ev ,,I have read ,,cost MORE than the cost of a diesel Whole car being manufactured this is including CO2 emissions
100 mile range doesn’t Do anything for me
And of course your pupils would be only be getting a license to drive an automatic
Hi Guy
Yes and that’s also a Big problem for pupils would Only be Allowed to drive auto and most hire cars are Manual
Two questions Budgie; where did you read about that battery cost (I’m interested to see that), and how many miles does a driving instructor do in a day? Annual mileage would be fine if you don’t know the daily number. Genuinely interested.
Alasdair, i know the main dealer price of a toyota prius battery, 1200 quid plus 200 quid fitting. Car machanics magazine have run one to 175000 miles an 10years so had to find out. But theirs is still going strong so not bothered about it yet.
Hi Alasdair
I would have seen it in a car Magazine most probably in the Driving Test Centre As I do not buy car magazines
As for mileage. Per day would varie 4 pupils for 2 hour lessons depending on their ability could each achieve 25- 35 miles each nearer the test the more miles per lesson they would cover ,Because I do motorways as well
Last year I did over 22,000 miles Excluding my own mileage
Look up the various electric driving instructors like superdriver in Sheffield
EV’s simply move the pollution from the car to the power station.
The current electricity generation and distribution system could not cope with mass EV vehicle charging.
Where do you charge an EV living in a town with on street parking sometimes ending up streets away? Lamp posts are not the answer. All you would get is a fence from charging cable down the street. In many cases the lampposts are currently away from the kerb.
Providing all the extra power capacity to do this in every street is going to be very very expensive and disruptive! The current cables are only sized to run lamps not provide a 7Kw charging port or two on every lamp post.
Theft of charging cables is a big problem.
It takes more energy and creates more pollution to make an EV this partly reflected in the higher price.
The range is still a limiting factor. I recently has to do an urgent 300 mile trip for family. Easily achieved with my diesel car on a single tank of fuel. Traffic and roadworks were the limiting factor preventing me doing 70MPH for much of the way. Just over half a tank of diesel was needed. No range anxiety.
The last issue is the government makes a vast amount of revenue from fuel duty. How are they going to make this up with EV’s? While they say they want EV’s another area of government is worried about the revenues it will lose. Are EV’s going to have to pay road miles as the New Zealand system dictates? They are currently exempt in New Zealand but the legislation is there to charge them as they do currently for diesel and other none taxed fuels such as LPG in New Zealand. New Zealand has announced and end date to the exemption already. How would this alter the cost dynamic?
These are mainly misconceptions. EVs charge at night when the grid has plenty of surplus energy, and these days, most EV drivers purchase from a renewables only provider like Bulb or Ecotricity.
Yes, not all housing has close access to charging points, but this will improve as adoption increases. At present most EV owners are affluent families with their own driveway charging point – EVs are not cheap.
I’m about to take delivery of a Hyundai Kona, easily capable of 250 miles on a single charge: range anxiety is about to become a thing of the past due to the very rapid reduction in costs of batteries. And the new network of super-rapid chargers on major motorways will enable charging at 250 kWh – meaning that a 64 kWh battery can be filled up in a few minutes.
As for government tax policy in NZ or anywhere else, that is up to governments, but it is hard to see how they can tax electricity at two different rates. Logically they could replace tax on petrol with say, tax on unhealthy foods like sugar, to help tackle the obesity crisis.
When all your “about to become a thing of the past” elements become reality them by al means come back and talk to us…. People here are living in todays world, not some, dream based utopia that “might” happen.
“not all housing has close access to charging points, but this will improve as adoption increases. ” How are they going to do that… knock them down and rebuild them closer JUST to be near a charging point ?
You must be affluent (or overpaid) to afford a new Hyundai Kona, so if you want to help me get on the EV path lend me; a pensioner; the money to buy one EV and l’ll scrap the 10yr old i/c car l can just about aford to run. No…l guessed not.
Robert, Their is no such thing as “Surplus Energy” as electrical generation cannot be stored (unless converted into DC and stored in batteries). What there is, is “Surplus Capacity” to generate extra supply if required which equals pollution if the wind is not blowing at night.. As for the suppliers of “renewables” such as those you describe, have you ever asked yourself “Where do they get their electricity from at night if the wind is not keeping the Turbines Turning???? As for batteries, the concern is not how cheap they can be manufactured for but the pollution created in the manufacturing process, end of life disposal and the mining if the components to manufacture them. Best you remove that Halo from above your head.
Zoggie you must think before you move your fingers. At night there is surplus energy /capacity as one doesn’t turn off a nuclear or coal powered power station at night. So the pollution you talk of will be for nothing if you don’t use it to charge a car/van up for the next day. Storing the energy as dc! Happens all across the land every night with forktrucks and pallet trucks on charge for the next day. Plus it is a cut in co2 if your not also burning fuel in a petrol or diesel car.
Shed,
I was an Electrical Engineer for 50 years, worked in Power generation, Nuclear Power Generation equals only 6% of total output to the grid. Spent fuel rods take thousands of years to decay. (possible environmental damage on a colossal scale).
If as I suspect you are dyslexic you have not read or understand my comment. There is only “Surplus Capacity” or in Dummies Terms, the ability to generate more energy if required, this is not Surplus Energy as this means Energy that is available already generated.
As you seem to be so clever can you please explain how generated “Green Energy” can be separated from Energy that is generated from Fossil Fuel Power Stations? as all Power Generation is fed into the National Grid.
So to claim that a person only uses “Green Energy” is a complete myth
I never made reference to any green energy zoggy. You said about storage of energy in dc form so I just said as in you car battery then? I’m not a dyslexic by the way, I’m a mechanical engineer an have been involved in your windmills a number of years back. Was taking the rip because of everyone wanting power but a) don’t want it in their back yard b)complan about waste. So since you have 50 years experience, what energy generation do you propose we use? I’ve said we could use a water wheel in the many large rivers, you could even put a line of them in an reuse the water more than once. Same problem, no one wants to ruin the view.
Zoggie, don’t open with being an Electrical Engineer for 50 years, and then shoot any credibility you think that gives you by kicking things off with an inaccurate “fact”.
For a start, nuclear makes up around 20% of the UK energy mix, and has done for years: https://twitter.com/DrJenBaker/status/1080497412584759296
You must know that we enjoy a great mix of power generation because each has their benefits. Solar is very location and weather dependent, and can only provide power during the day. Wind is also location and weather dependent. Nuclear provides a very predictable and regular output, but we should be treating the disposal and storage of nuclear waste more seriously than we probably do because it’s a major environmental risk.
But you’re right to correct Robert on the term surplus capacity vs surplus energy, but you’re muddying the waters of your argument with all this other stuff.
There’s no need to try to explain how you separate renewable energy from other forms of energy when everyone knows you’re supplied the same energy. You simply match the demand of a customer with the production from the desired generation source. So if 10% of households paid for green energy, then their supplier(s) would have to purchase or produce at least 10% of their energy from green energy sources.
So people don’t “use” only green energy, you’re right. But you’re being pedantic. Think about it.
We cannot even get our council to pick up the street litter nor empty the bins properly, do you think they will install electric charging points for the street parking residents? They will, at their price of hundreds, if not thousands of pounds, and even a pavement crossing is now over £1400. And Birmingham is supposed to be a vibrant city, after all, they can waste millions on a commonwealth games that nobody wants and is causing major disruption to hundreds of residents.
How long will EVs be “cheap” to run, motorway charging cost will surpass all other forms when they realise they have you by the “short n curlies” and how long will the government do without VED? The hole left in revenues will dictate some other method of collecting taxes and as usual whatever replaces the old VED will probably have some future proofing (ie. more expensive) time to wake up and read between the lines.
even if all our energy were generated by coal electric cars would still emit less co2 than ICE cars. in the summer coal is hardly burnt at all and most energy is renewable. Winter is mainly gas but some coal is burnt. nuclear and renewables make up the rest in the uk.
How much do you know about electricity generation and demand? You seem to be more concerned about this than National Grid. They’e prepared, and they’re not worried.
If you believe what you type, go and find out what’s being done about it so you’re less afraid than you need to be about the future. Then you can stop spreading that unwarranted FUD to others.
National Grid Future Energy Scenarios: http://fes.nationalgrid.com
The problem is not at national grid level (although NG lie a lot anyway). The issue is down at the 11kV and 415V (3-phase) that gets to your house. At street level, the system relies on diversity — not every house will have an electric shower/washing machine/dishwasher/immersion on at once, because they are all operated at random times.
But for car charging, the demand is long-term, maybe 6 hours overnight for a full charge. So every EV in a street is going to overlap, and the local cabling will just fry. Most street supplies are 400 Amp cabling, so more than about 6 EVs in your road (more accurately, on an LV Way) will blow the fuse at a transformer.
I also worked on a project at a distribution company to persuade large companies to move to a tariff where they could be taken off supply at short notice to avoid cuts for domestic users. They tried a pilot for around 2000 companies, and got 3 responses. They have to be panicking to be trying stunts like that.
There is a whole process in progress to determine the cost of reinforcing the entire power infrastructure between 2014 and 2031 to support a low-carbon world. The estimates it is based on are pure guesswork and most of the numbers have been deliberately falsified — population growth, EV numbers, heat pumps, solar, the whole thing. Google RIIO-2 for the intro.
You are right to point out that the Local 415 / 400V three phase distribution network will be where the crunch comes. However, the 6* 7kW charging points will be delivered with 2 on each phase, 60A per phase roughly, so that will not cause a fry up. If the load was more, it would not “Blow the fuse at the transformer”. Consider London’s suburbs: Each road has a ring main of 3-phase 400A per phase. On a specific “Block” there are usually three transformers. The load would need to increase until all three transformers are “stressed” and the most heavily loaded may then trip out, and the other two become more heavily loaded and they may then trip out. But wait – at the edges of this block, there are 400A fuses per phase to the adjacent blocks, and so another 12 or so transformers will still be supplying juice. The longer cabling lengths will cause a greater voltage drop, so everyone gets say 225V on a single phase supply, dropping the charging rate of cars on charge – and everything else; [Note “230V” supplies are actually 240V in the UK, and can drift down to below 220V whilst complying with how the “240V” supply is specified]. Also bear in mind that one of the adjacent blocks may be business / industrial premises, with little load apart from the occasional Fork Lift Truck charging up, so well able to “keep the lights on”.
I am told that the cleverer car charging systems “Know” if the grid is stressed. they will then switch off for a random period – or use an inverter to create 230V 50Hz FROM the car battery, holding things together and then charge up later in the night when other cars have switched off the charging current as batteries become fully charged.
It is a problem, but not a bad as depicted above!
Are not hybrid cars the short term solution for the next 15 to 20 years: how do their costs compare?
I bought a hybrid BMW 225xe this September to replace my previous BMW 218 . The insurance wasn’t any different to the previous car and with the grants and discount I negotiated I didn’t pay much more than before to change. I don’t do much in the way of long journeys so a two and a half hour charge at home is generally enough for my days driving (costs about 90p) I have hardly had to put petrol in it at all and am averaging about 73mpg overall including journeys where I exceed the electric only distance of around 21 miles and the petrol engine kicks in. I would say if you can have a charge point on your drive at home and you don’t do long journeys every day that it’s very worthwhile
How long will petrol in the tank be “good” if it’s not being used or topped up?
We have only just replaced our car. We already have a charging point so weren’t against the idea of an electric vehicle, but the cost of electric vehicles at almost double that of a petrol engined car was a major disincentive. Given that we live in a very hilly area, the range of any car is likely to be much less than the published figures. For most of the year our journeys are short and we could easily recharge the battery at home, but longer journeys coupled with recharging times en route just make the idea unappealing.
Our new car is more economical than previous models, it has auto stop for a lot of our local town driving, and a speed limiter will help me avoid intentionally breaking the speed the limit and will limit the emissions.
Electrics are even more economical with hills! They recharge the battery going downhill.
I have a Renault Zoe, and I love it. 2 years old it only cost me £6,750 with 11000 miles on the clock. My electricity is much cheaper than Which, it would appear, as it works out at about 3p per mile. I mostly drive around the town, so range isn’t an issue. I pay a lease cost on the battery, but there are other benefits which automatically come with this. For me it is very economic, relaxing, very easy in stop start traffic. Wouldn’t go back to an ICE.
At least 12p/mile battery lease and then connection charges on top of electricity costs when away from home; and hundreds to have a proper charger installed at home, without which, it would be impossible to use. Then the new road repair charge for everybody of £750/year!
Why’s it impossible to use without a charger installed at home? I worked this out for my own needs, and even driving 75 miles per day (double the average), in a Zoe, that uses about 2/5 of it’s usable range from a 42 kWh battery. 2/5 is 17 kWh (worst case, rounded up) which if you charge from a regular 3-pin plug at 3 kW will take less than 6 hours.
I think I’d manage fine without a charger. Most people would be fine plugging it into a 3-pin socket every two or three days, and it would just be habit. But… everyone’s different and some people find it difficult to keep devices charged or cars filled with petrol. Then again, that’s not the EV’s fault.
Suits your needs…but not 99.9% of the majority.
I have a feeling that hydrogen fuel cell technology will overtake battery power in the medium term. Rather like 8-track cartridges vs. cassettes
No, mad, the electrolysis is 50% efficient and then the fuel cell is 80% efficient. Total 60% loss. Charge EV batteries = 95% gets to the wheel motors. Distribution of H2 very hard too
All true. H2 has a very difficult case to make.
do you mean deuterium or protium (H1}~1H?
Hahaha – yes! Let’s use those.
Sorry, I meant hydrogen, not H2. Corrected.
No an EV will not suit my needs as I need 4×4 capability and 2 ton towing capacity and No such EV exists at an affordable price
Tesla have built a 44 tonne truck, fully loaded will accelerate as fast as a family car, will travel 400 miles on a charge and will fully charge in 30 minutes. check it out on youtube and the internet. would that suit your needs?
It wud suit everyones needs…with the exception of thise who have less than the price it wud cost to buy, insure, repair them, which wud be 99.9% of the population.
Tesla, so usual problem with cost and supply of parts.
Yep, nobody else makes Tesla parts apart for tesla so you have to wait for them to be shipped in where as most other models parts are readily available, not only that, at a guess most on here could not afford a Tesla its the cream of the EV world bit like talking Rolls Royce, Aston Martin & Maserati in the combustion world nice to look at but way beyond the reach of most of us there is not even a Tesla dealer in Wales, my nearest one is Knutsford a mere 60 miles away.
As for trucking firms I wonder how many will be able to afford the Tesla truck, and if they can how much will their delivery charges go up to reflect the cost of the asset, who will pay at the end of the line for that increase – us on goods.
There is lots of talk about the environmental impact of combustion engines, next time its bin day count the amount of vans/trucks turn up to collect your rubbish, all diesel, all start stopping (worst thing you can do for emissions) compared to the old days when you had 1 truck, so what environment are we actually saving we recycle more (tick) but use more start/stop diesels to do so (Cross) MMmm no win there then!
Boats, tankers, cargo ships and liners all diesel, planes all aviation fuel, would you fly in a battery plane?
If the governments of the world (UK) really wanted to do something to help the environment they push us away from PEV and put the infrastructure in place for social transport, the whole way of modern life needs to be changed, High streets closing down yet the infrastructure is still there for us and you can walk around them, but instead we drive out of town to retail parks, work, was all centralised years ago as it cost effective, now we all drive to work, I drive over 300 miles a week just to work, government sets up zero hours contracts? now people in the same family don’t even have regular work patterns so can not travel together, its not just about electric v combustion, the government sets up an idea then works progressively against it like recycling they are forcing us the consumer to recycle more and more yet every single borough has different ideas on what s to be recycled? why, but the manufactures are still producing mountains of plastic and cardboard around our food, have the government tackled it, no not really, they have now decided the earth warming phase is down to diesel cars, so killing the car industry dead which they have along with WLPT and pushing us all toward EV’s when the infrastructure is nowhere near ready for us all to plug in together, as I have said before just look at your own street count the cars transfer that number into all EV’s in your street and every other street in your neighbourhood then think about charging them all, for a start there are not enough lamp posts, for example the person who works till 6 or 6:30 and gets home is not going to have a lamp post charging point as everyone else who got home earlier would have taken them.
I actually read a nonsense article the other day about dust particles on tyres and brakes which will still be in the air and affecting us even when we are driving PEV’s and I though OMG you are starting already and you have not even got us all in EV’s yet
So for me, my opinion is, its not about the vehicles we drive but about our modern life style.
Trains are filthy, over crowded, over priced and usual late if not cancelled, buses are not much better, filthy, overcrowded and expensive and they want us to ditch our cars for this experience, its not just the way we travel but our whole way of life needs to change. That will never happen now just as local communities have disappeared we would rather talk to someone in Australia on facebook than our next door neighbour now.
Yet.
Rome wasn’t built in a day.
Rivian are doing a 4×4 truck the R1V which accelerates at 0-60 mph in 3 seconds, maybe that will suit your needs.
You need car companies to provide better alternatives that will suit your needs. While not uncommon, your needs are certainly not the majority’s needs I’m afraid. Most people drive regular cars short distances and don’t read this website. For them (going shopping, doing school runs, driving <20 miles to work) EVs already suit their needs. The article points out that there are currently other factors preventing those people switching over, but it's not really for lack of suitable offerings.
So yes, you need an AWD towing machine. I don't. But they'll come.
I also need a two tonne towing capability but have been considering a EV in addition to use on all the short journeys. Charging could all be done at home, but the point I had hoped to see covered in this review is that of weather conditions in winter.
Head lights, fog lights, wipers, heated seats, defrosting screens, cabin heater, radio for the traffic news, all come out of the same fairy dust that turns the road wheels but how big an effect does it have on range? Sitting in stationary traffic in south of England the non-motive power consumption could be close to zero whilst in north of Scotland it could be more than that used to move the vehicle.
Also, batteries generally perform much more poorly when cold for both charging and power delivery.
How about doing a same vehicle trial under the different conditions?
When not moving, with heaters etc on, you consume 600Wh. You would need to be stationary in traffic for about a week to run your battery down!
Seriously, join the forums at www dot speakev dot com and ask your questions there. We are all friendly and experienced EV owners there.
Yep, what Mr E V Driver said.
No, running all those electrics can’t consume more battery power than moving the vehicle. But your point is, “surely running all this stuff reduces your battery range”?
Well all that stuff takes power regardless of your fuel source, so what effect does it have on a petrol or diesel vehicle? They also produce the electricity required to power all that stuff from the same fairy dust that turns their road wheels. Yes, there’s a battery, but that’s also demanding being topped up from the engine and alternator.
Do people worry about it? No. Because it’s negligible. Same with EVs.
So why when you do short trips in your diesel/petrol car in winter with all your lights, heaters etc on it runs your battery down quicker especially an older battery, simple the car is not generating enough power to charge the battery and supply all the drop offs lights and heater rear screen big battery killers along with the blower, in winter your cars MPG goes down this is why the engine is having to work harder to power everything. when sitting in traffic not moving engine is still turning generating power for that battery.
In an EV in traffic not moving what is keeping you lights on? is it being replenished even slightly? so I think there is a concern there. even if it is just a small one.
Hi Chris
My previous post will give my history
As an ADI my Citroen C3 1.6 eHDI 2014 reg returns 60 MPG in town teaching it has a Stop Start System at traffic lights etc clutch down select neutral engine stops But ancillaries keep working I.e headlights heater wipers etc; when lights change clutch down select gear engine starts immediately and pull away on green ,,Occasionally it will keep running If we have a lot of Stop/starts during a Lesson,,But not sure about London T.B.Honest , On the southcoast it works very well for me anyhow
My old C3 ,,09 reg same engine But No Stop Start returned 48/50 mpg while teaching,,So I Know this technology is working for me
Great, start/stop is a great system. and a definite aid to MPG.
Point I was trying to make though was a standard car system (no start/stop)
MPG in the summer is better not just because the air is warmer but you don’t have the ancillaries on that you do in the winter no heated screen, no head lamps apart from night driving both big power suckers A/C will be on.
But come winter your blower is on usually full blast on a short trip to work for most of the trip, heated rear screen on usually all the way dependant on distance, headlamps on. more juice from you charging system engine works slightly harder to run vehicle.
That’s how we test them its called a load test, engine running on idle and h/lamps on, heater blower on full and rear screen on, you can hear the engine tone change on tick over. the older the battery the noticeable tone change and sometimes you can even see a change in h/lamp brightness. but you do lose MPG by running these ancillaries.
On my third EV after 8 years, currently a BMW i3, so I’m clearly a fan. But even charging exclusively at home, I can say they don’t make economic sense, taking into account high purchase cost and rapid depreciation.
They’re great fun to drive, very little compromise, except for range, which isn’t a problem if it’s a second car. I’d never have one as a main car, particularly as the much vaunted electric charging network is not only expensive, but rubbish. You’ll know what I mean when you arrive at a service station on a motorway to find the one rapid charger out of order. EVs are light years away from the convenience of ICEs in that regard.
The main reason I have one is pollution. Our towns and cities are awful. It may be that EVs merely export the emissions elsewhere, but it is away from the respiratory tracts of ourselves and indeed our children, thereby doing less harm. And if, as happened to me purely by coincidence (not virtue) this year, you change electricity suppliers to one that is exclusively renewables (Pure Planet), well that doesn’t actually apply.
EVs actually will enable a big CHANGE in the fuel mix. At the moment often no wind, little or no solar outside summer daytime, cold still day, nuclear just sits there 6 to 8 GW all year round, reliable but no extra available, see “Templar gridwatch”, wild swings in gas fired generation all day every day to take up the slack. Need flexible demand side response, in response to time of day pricing. EVs = ideal sort of load. They will ENABLE us to not rely any more on filthy gas generation (in CO2 terms).
I live in a flat in a town so have nowhere to charge an EV so what do I do now and in the future, it is just not practical.
I have the same problem.
Apparently Phil you dangle a cable out of the window.. and hope members of the local underprivileged dont snaffle if for the copper content….. or someone sue you when they fall over it….
A Golf E home charge cable is £700 to buy retail we have replace 2 under warranty as they are over heating batteries, you have more chance of someone nicking it to replace their own knackered one.
Right now it’s not practical, you’re right. But it will be in future.
The current wisdom for EV ownership in the future where charging at home isn’t an option is either to charge at work or at shopping malls/supermarket car parks. Basically wherever else your car spends time parked is where it should also charge.
As long as the infrastructure supports the right standards and speeds, and is as well maintained as we would expect it should be, then these problems should all pretty much go away. At least for most people.
Go and look at plugshare dot come or zapmap dot com. I live in a terrace and use public charges. No problems here. I do 22k a year
” diesels that emit more CO2 are required to pay higher tax based on their emissions ratings. The Renault Clio, which has a CO2 emission of 160 CO2 g/km, first-year road tax is £160 for a single 12-month payment, and after that, it is £140 for a single 12-month payment.” I have an Insignia with the bigger boot, which has a CO2 emission of 145 CO2 g/km my road tax is £30, why should I want to pay more, I used to take it to Spain where am I supposed to plug it in the hotels have no electric points. If you use your car just to go to work, shopping and the occasional cruise then fine but if you go from Exeter to Edinburgh and back.
Easy as pie. Join the forums at www dot speakev dot com and get some real world advice from experienced owners. Exeter to Edinburgh? Walk in the park.
The so-called ‘electricity crisis’ will not happen, because EVs charge up on cheap rates overnight when there is plenty of unused energy in the grid, mostly nuclear and wind power, which are effectively carbon neutral.
The figure quoted of 4.2p per mile is also siginficantly wrong: at nighttime rates most EV’s cost about 2.5 to 3.5 pence per mile to charge up, depending on model.
No generation crisis, no grid capacity issue, DNOs have ample capacity down to the last transformer, all of that part is a false concern, then street cables and final transformer are only sized for 1.5 kW per home after diversity maximum demand (ADMD. or MDAD). If owners all charge EV on a street at same cheap time, at present, very serious problems could occur (street cables fail badly on sustained moderate overload) costing £3000 per home (£80b) to put right max if have to replace all last mile assets. However the average real EV owner (EV is main or sole car) only needs 11 kWh per night, instead of charging at 3.3 or 7 kW he could charge all night at 1 kW, problem is solved …. we just need the right incentives to stop everyone popping it on charge 17:30 at lots of kW charge rate. See Ofgem’s current review of access and forward looking charges. They’ll be reducing your main service fuse 80a or 100a (23 kW) to far lower value (as a resettable interruptible trip, it is built into the smart meter specification….Supplier can remotely alter, and can monitor your number of manual soft resets) unless you pay more too, like in France .. a new lower “core entitlement”.
Why do you assume we’ll only charge at night?
Some people get cheap electricity at night depends on the package you are on, it use to be called in the old days Economy 7. If my memory serves me right ( doesn’t always these days) it use to come into effect 7pm to 7am, We where never on it as a family so don’t know that much about it.
But I rather doubt anyone would be kept on it if everyone is charging their cars at night on it with cheap electricity, these power companies are to profit driven to let that slip.
The generation, transmission and distribution systems are already nearly fully loaded during the day, with peak times around meals and longer in winters. EVs will be timed to even out the demand, just like Economy 7 was conceived to do. That means 01:00 to 06:30.
Most EVs will be parked at work or other places during the day. If you pay for a home charger, you are going to want to use it at night rather than pay commercial rates away from home.
The reason the government is pushing smart meters is that they will then be able to update the software to control your individual demand profile, and adjust your tariff according to time-of-day. You have to be seven years old to believe it is just to avoid employing a few meter readers.
Nobody has asked what happens when an electric car has a bad accident. Are they safe to touch e.g. get someone out, or do they have to be earthed. How would you know?
Meter Readers? what are they, I’ve not seen a meter reader for years. is that still an actual job now.
I’ve been ringing through and now emailing readings for about the last 15 years.
It would seem from most of the negative comments that the correspondents haven’t actually tried owning an EV. If you accept that the majority of car journeys are short distance then an EV makes sense, especially if you can charge at home. And the dealers (e.g. Nissan, Renault) should be familiar with their vehicles and have a fixed tariff for servicing and repairs. I agree that insurance premiums are higher than they should be but maybe that will change when more data are available.
The main dealers have a fixed tariff for servicing and repair of my Land Rover. It is about two and a half times the rate at my local independent garage. I can walk from and to my local garage instead of a £15 taxi each way. I can book vehicle into local garage with a couple of days notice, not as with the dealer having to work two or three weeks ahead – which is really no use at all in the case of a breakdown.
I haven’t “actually tried jumping in a canal” either. I don’t need to buy an EV to find it doesn’t do what I need.
If the majority of journeys are short distance, then would you recommend a second car for the other journeys, or should I hire a proper car when I need to make a longer business trip?
EVs are not the future and the sooner the industry gets on board with this the better. As the railways have discovered, hydrogen is the fuel of the future. It can be produced easily and cheaply (Denmark already have a full scale wind farm producing hydrogen) and meets all the requirements of the modern motorist. Producing hydrogen fueled cars wouldn’t be a significant deviation for the motoring industry. Existing petrol stations could easily be adapted to fuel hydrogen cars in the same time it takes to fuel a diesel or petrol car, and you’d get a similar mileage out of a tank.
What on earth are people waiting for?
Forget H2. It is dying. It is woefully inefficient (one third as efficient as battery electric), you cannot buy a H2 car and you cannot get them serviced due to health and safety regs.
H2 makes steel go brittle and thus the fuel tank needs replacing every 5 years.
Look it up on google and dont believe TopGear..
But is a new fuel tank cheaper than a new nbattery pack for electric?
I totally agree, hydrogen power IS the way forward nil pollution only pure water
Why do you say nil pollution, at the moment industrial hydrogen is made by reforming methane (lose half its energy make lots of CO2), if you use electricity to do electrolysis at ambient 50% efficiency, lose half the leccy, compared to charging a battery 95% efficiency. Fuel cell only 80% efficient and needs active cooling. Hydrogen is stupid. And I didn’t even talk about distributing it. Or what a 350 bar tank is like, and how little it can store
Wait wait wait… are you talking about using H2 to store energy for a hydrogen EV? Or are you talking about an H2 ICE like Mazda just developed?
Either way, the only cheap and easy way to produce hydrogen currently is as a byproduct of the oil industry. We don’t want that. Producing hydrogen through electrolysis (the clean way) is pretty inefficient. If it wasn’t, Denmark would have more than one proof-of-concept wind turbine.
Petrol stations can be adapted to pump H2, but not “easily”. Storage and transportation of hydrogen is a huge problem, simply due to it being the lightest element. The atoms are so small they even seep THROUGH glass so it’s practically impossible to contain, which means it can’t be piped – I mean, it CAN be piped – but you’ll lose a load into the atmosphere and we don’t really want that either.
And with the pressures hydrogen has to be kept under, the tanks have to be super strong (and impermeable – see above).
There are lots of issues to overcome with hydrogen technology, and if there weren’t then it would’ve been ready in to 70’s when they said it would. I mean the 80’s, when they said it would. No, the 90’s. Wait… didn’t we have this 10 years ago? It’s right around the corner, right? Oh, hydrogen is the future!
So that’s what on earth people are waiting for.
Based on my experience of driving a Renault Zoe 2 years and a Smart EQ now, I agree with the insurance cost. But certainly disagree with your assertion that kind uk isn’t ready for EVs. And also that EVs depreciate more. That is definitely not the case.
LPG was an economic alternative fuel in many European countries, We’ve even got some fuelling garages in the UK.
Then the Governments decided to add an equivalent road fuel duty.
At home your probably paying 5% VAT and 9% Green surcharge, when will Governments add a road fuel duty to keep Treasury topped up?
The plan is not to charge the EV Charging electricity, that’s not possible. But £42b a year of fuel tax can’t be foregone. Did you notice that new ANPRs fitted to trunk roads and motorways in 2019 to tax foreign lorries on UK roads ? Toll per mile for all cars (not just EVs) will be the progressive replacement for fuel tax duty income, I believe, as EVs become popular.
They’re not going to add fuel surcharge, they’re going to add a road repair charge of 8.4p/mile for all vehicles!
They say that VED is only for pollution now, so they need to charge for pot holes. Not that VED has had anything to do with the roads for a very long time.
You have not mentioned the duration per journey of these batteries. Would I be able to travel from my home town of Cannock to Aberdeen on 1 charge. How many times would I have to charge up. How long to charge up? How long would it take to do the same journey by battery power against a combustion engine car? What would happen if your battery runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere because you could not find a charge point, whereas, there are lots of fuel filling stations around the Country, you can even carry a can of fuel for emergencies, you can’t carry a can of electricity. Will the AA/RAC come out with a generator and stay with you while it charges the battery? These are the figures people want to know. These are the questions no-one want to answer They do not even want you to ask.
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/deltas-micro-turbine-range-extender-will-make-production-2019-model will be the answer, or similar from other firms.
You are asking them, but I’m surprised you haven’t sought the answers. They’re all out there. Every one of your questions has an answer already.
I expect the devil is in the details, and these questions all have nuanced answers that people (I’m not saying YOU, but generally… people) aren’t interested in. At least they’re not interested enough to spend 20-30 minutes researching an accurate answer.
But the same questions for petrol and diesel cars have equally nuanced answers. It’s just that we’ve all acquired enough knowledge through experience to either answer these ourselves, or to piece together a reasonable (if not reasonably accurate) answer.
For instance, your first question; Cannock to Aberdeen. I don’t even know how far that is, but I’m going to assume hundreds of miles. Google Maps puts it about 400 miles (just took me 30 seconds to check). So then what size car are you driving? An old Honda Civic will be lucky to get more than 300 miles out of a tank of petrol, but a mile munching Vauxhall Insignia diesel will do that in its sleep I imagine. But how do you drive? If you rag a Mazda RX8 all the way you may need to fill up twice, for instance. Is it just you in the car, or do you have a spouse and kids and luggage adding to the weight? Then there’s which day of the week and what time of day you’re travelling which affects the traffic and speed you’ll do… there’s a lot to consider if you want to make an assumption about the efficiency and therefore range of any vehicle (EV or ICE).
But why would you want to get there on one charge? Would it be to avoid stopping? Are you hoping the traffic conditions are favourable and you’d get there in under six hours? If so, and you DO have at least one other passenger, you’d best hope nobody else needs a pee, a drink, some food or to stretch their legs, because humans have a range too. Let’s say you drove two (roughly) three hour stints from Cannock to Aberdeen, stopping half way. If you wanted to get everyone in the car refreshed (even if it’s just you), the EV can be charging while you do your thing. Unless it’s absolutely imperative that you get there as soon as possible, why not chill out for 20 minutes, and enjoy your tea or coffee? There’s probably a queue at McDonald’s anyway.
Join the discussion…
You have not mentioned the duration per journey of these batteries. Would I be able to travel from my home town of Cannock to Aberdeen on 1 charge. How many times would I have to charge up. How long to charge up? How long would it take to do the same journey by battery power against a combustion engine car? What would happen if your battery runs out of charge in the middle of nowhere because you could not find a charge point, whereas, there are lots of fuel filling stations around the Country, you can even carry a can of fuel for emergencies, you can’t carry a can of electricity. Will the AA/RAC come out with a generator and stay with you while it charges the battery? These are the figures people want to know. These are the questions no-one want to answer They do not even want you to ask.
Hi Gwyn
What a lot of questions you have. As an EV driver with about 8 months experience, I am happy to answer your questions. Before I begin, I should point out that some of your questions depend on what make, model and spec of the car you are talking about, as well as other factors like speed and driving style, so it is hard to give definitive answers, but I can give some idea of the figures involved. The key variable in the range of any Electric Vehicle (EV) is the battery size. At the moment, popular battery sizes are 30-40 kWh (range of 107-150 miles): 60 kWH (200 + miles) and 90-100 kWh (280-330 miles). Strictly speaking there is no EV at the moment that can do Cannock to Aberdeen in 1 charge, however I would ask if that is really needed. According to google maps, the journey would take nearly 11 hours without any stops. Nobody could or should be driving that distance without any breaks. You will need to stop for personal needs, food and just for a bit of a rest every few hours anyway. Whilst you are having those breaks, your car can be charging as most motorway services have rapid chargers that can charge a 30 kWh hour car (eg Nissan Leaf 30 kWH) up to 80% charge in under 30 minutes. A 30kWh battery car would therefore need approx 4 x 30 minute stops between Cannock and Aberdeen. A top of the range Tesla Model S on the other hand would need only 1 x 40 minute stop at a Tesla Supercharger on the Cannock to Aberdeen journey. Obviously the bigger battery you have, you will need fewer stops but it may take longer to charge in some cases.. Although do bear in mind charging will get quicker in the next few years as new EVs come out soon which support faster charging speeds and the faster chargers needed to support that will start rolling out next year. Getting back to your question, roughly I think charging stops could add 2 hours onto the journey, but then I think you would similar breaks in a petrol or diesel car. I have done a similar journey in my car with a 30 kWh battery and it is not any great inconvenience. However, on your particular journey I would be reluctant to drive that far in any type of car. For such a massive journey I would think the train is a much better option. The train journey only takes between 8-9 hours via Birmingham and can even be done with just 1 change at Birmingham. If you can plan ahead, you can get cheap advance tickets. Of course there may be other factors such as the number of passengers and quantity of luggage which may affect the practicality of a train journey. But if you really want to drive, two new cars are available (or available to order) that will do about 300 miles on one charge and are around £30k new – the Hyundai Kona EV and Kia e-Niro. Also, major manufacturers like VW will be rolling out their electric cars from 2020, and VW say they are going to do a vehicle equivalent to a Golf that will cost the same as a diesel Golf with about 300 miles range. Moving on, you asked about running out of charge in the middle of nowhere. The short answer to that is it should never happen, as an EV tells you the charge state of the battery and the estimated range at the current time. The car warns if the battery starts to get low, and it will have charging stations built-in to the sat-nav to help guide you to a nearby charging station. Or you use an app like Zap-Map or Plugshare on you your phone to help. You can also use one of those apps to plan a long or unfamiliar journey before you go so you know where you charge on route. There are many more places to charge than you think. Chargers can be found at motorway services, hotels, restaurants, pubs, supermarkets, public car parks, health clubs, stations and some workplaces. I’ve even charged up at petrol stations! New charging points are coming online all the time, whilst petrol station numbers are in long term decline. If the worst should happen and you do run somehow run out of charge, you can ring your breakdown service and ask them to send a flatbed out as you are driving an EV, and they can then take you on to the nearest charging station. Most EV’s come with 3 pin mains chargers that can be used in any of the millions of domestic 3 pin sockets in the UK, so if you carry one of those in your car that’s the nearest equivalent to the can of petrol or diesel in a fossil fuel powered car. Hope these answers help you or someone else out there.
I love our Renault Zoe. Service cost at the Renault dealer is £99 so not an issue. The gear selector did go wrong and it took a technician from Renault to fix it but they gave me a hire car for the week that it was off the road. I love the acceleration away from junctions. It has a top speed of 87 mph if I ever wanted to test it. No
Tax and no congestion charge. It’s a winner for us
This is a TERRIBLE article, badly researched, full of misinformation and clearly written by someone with zero experience of using an EV on a daily basis.
For the record, a Tesla should (assuming a clean licence) cost £600 max per year using Direct Line. GoCompare and all these type of sites have not yet adjusted to EVs (they still ask for engine size!!) and so they give you a default price.
PLEASE ask EV owners and not just write utter nonsense. I will be contacting the publisher of this article directly to write a more informed article.
Am I wrong in thinking that the cost of “leasing” the battery should have been taken into account here?
I have never bought a new car, my current Volvo is 10 years old with 65000 on the clock. If it were electric I would now be ether looking for a second mortgage fro a replacement battery or… looking for another car…
Added to which I didnt see any comparison of mileage per charge / fuel fill mentioned. Wouldnt like to try an pull the caravan from Manchester to Cornwall with an electric… how many times would I have to stop to charge… how long would that charge take…. how far down the road would my Volvo be whilst your electric car remains plugged in?
I do like to get places on the same day as I set off…!
Nowhere is there a comment on how many miles a charge lasts when towing a caravan 1400 kgs weight. How many times will need re-charging on a journey of 300 miles when towing? How long will the charge last when stuck in a jam on the motorway and it is freezing outside?
How long will the charge last in a jam? This was answered in another comment… about a week.
You’ll be long dead from hypothermia if you rely on a petrol or diesel to keep you warm in a motorway jam when it’s freezing outside.
Due to this report and knowing charging points in our area are few and far between i would not purchase an electric vehicle at this time. I would rather go for a hybrid.
Do it!
No one looked at EV specialist insurers? Regular insurers generally don’t do too well when switching to electric. Having said that I moved from a corsa diesel to a (2018) leaf and it didn’t cost much more with the same insurer despite being far more powerful and twice the price. When it comes to renewal though I will shop around as I have been told that firms like pluginsure are much more competitive for some demographics
To me the government have been to fast in saying only electric powered cars because there are and will be more alternative ways of powering vehicles before the year everyone MUST go electric Have they got things WRONG once again ?
I would like an EV if the national charging structure was not such a messy unreliable and time consuming affair. A PHEV would attract me if it were not for the high cost as 80% of my journeys are fairly short local ones. But I still need reassurance for the occasional long ones. The third scary element is battery life and high cost of replacement ( much more than a new engine) and the never mentioned environmental cost of disposal, In 10 years time will we suddenly become aware of millions of discarded batteries poisoning the planet with the inevitable taxation penalty pretending to solve the problem.
“In 10 years time will we suddenly become aware of millions of discarded batteries poisoning the planet with the inevitable taxation penalty pretending to solve the problem” -sorry John Hampson, but that’s a silly hypothesis. The value of raw lithium ion has trebled in 3 years, that’s why really naff firms like KOD (kodal minerals) with low grade 1.2% lithium assays are potentially marginally viable. Lots of new Lithium mines going up, which will lead to a crash, but lithium’s going to have a good value, why (if you were physically capable of it !!) remove your 24 kWh lithium batteries from the floor pan and fly tip when it’s worth £1200 for recycling ??? That would be nuts. People do wrongly put small batteries in the kitchen bin but that ain’t happening with ex-EV batteries. That’s one thing NOT to worry about.
^^ Lots of new Lithium mines going up ^^
Sounds like pie in the sky!
So who recycles them as I believe they are very difficult to recycle, we have 6 in our workshop, nobody wants to recycle them, and at present the manufacture does not want them back either.
Umicore Group. World leaders in this stuff.
I couldn’t say if PHEVs cost that much more as I haven’t looked, but you’re right, for people with concerns they’re a good alternative – providing you plug them in!
You don’t need to worry about batteries needing to be replaced any time soon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb_i4ihsJ1w
And EV batteries don’t get disposed of, they get recycled. They are FAR too valuable to just chuck away, and we know we don’t want to produce another environmental problem while trying to fix one. I’m not sure where people get this idea from.
When we get to the point of nearly or no combustion engine cars the DVLA driving test will have to be reconsidered, has this issue been considered?
No, because there is already an automatic test, which is all you need to pass to drive an EV. It’s just a sort of automatic. It’s nothing special.
One big con regarding owning an electric car, is that unless it’s a Tesla, you generally look a pillark. Also, they are soulless vehicles. No V8 thunder when you open them up. No warming growl in the morning when you fire them up. Basically, they are completely boring and clinical. You just don’t love an electric car like an old Triumph Stag, or Jensen Interceptor.
Jaguar iPace? Rivian? The myriad of EVs coming out from VW and BMW? Yes there will be econoboxes but there are in petrol versions too.
I disagree on the noise – most people don’t care about the noise, and my plumber next door loves driving his new eNV200 van away at 6am and not waking the street as his old transit used to.
If you want a noisy V8, then go for it, but you are very much in the minority. Most people want to drive to the shops or the kids to school
The current power supply capability and infrastructure will not support a mass changeover to EVs. The government’s plans, as always, are way too late – it’s going to take a long time to implement. Hopefully, during the interim, EVs will be improved and become quicker and less expensive to charge.
How are we going to recycle the EV batteries – what are the plans for that? The current major producers of lithium are Australia, Chile, Argentina and China, with Australia and Chile accounting for about 75% of the total. All these countries are a long way from home………….!
The extra money for an EV plus extra insurance and lower value at sale time puts me off buying one. They may be green but so were diesels a few years back according to our government. At the moment I’ll stick to my diesel knowing it can be repaired easily and I can fuel it up anywhere.
Toys is how I describe EVs. Do Cabinet ministers used them? Do all civil servants on business? No way Jose. Yet they expect the mugs ( us) to follow their advice. I doubt the EVs will ever be viable for decent journeys Fine as a dodgem of course to go the village but I will only pay £5K for a car like that.
This is a way of keeping a tighter rein on teh masses and stop them getting about and above their station. I see the EV as a anti freedom institution. Go three miles form you home and that is it.
Muppet.. I do 22k a year in my EV, London to Leeds non stop, weekly, easy as pie. Get with the times.
Do you still use a Nokia phone and a Kodak camera by any chance?
New batteries every year then? At 14p/mile as well!
Which EV owner told you they replace their battery every year? If you think this through, wherever you heard this from, it makes no sense. Firstly, people do buy these cars and they wouldn’t be happy with them if the batteries kept needing replacement. Secondly, have you even checked the warranties offered on EVs and their batteries? Even if you haven’t (which I GUARANTEE you haven’t) do you think if there was a problem with a battery after a year that you’d be expected to pay for it? No, that’s what consumer protection laws are for and car companies DO have more faith in their technology than you do.
I still have my no frills Nokia with no camera as that is all you need. I do have an electronic camera but prefer my Pentax reflex film camera. You are the muppet Mr EV because you are being ripped off by the tech industry sales people and unable to ask yourself ‘are all the gadgets really necessary for a simple life’. Heard of the saying “Keep it simple stupid”
Thankfully I’m of an age where I won’t ever need to consider having an electic car. My 17 plate E220 diesel (euro 6), £30 VED, 50 mpg (nearer 60 on a journey), and £198 annual insurance will do me nicely, thank you.
My 2018 Hyundai Ioniq cost substantially less than your E220 Diesel (albeit it’s not as big or luxurious), I also am of an age and I embrace technology and believe that we should all do our bit to protect the planet and the future of our grand children.
My so owns an electric Zoe, Service cost over £100.00 LOL LOL for what a computer update LOL LOL.. Try finding a charge point in Belfast that works that is not hogged for the entire day by the same electric car. His solution, borrow my petrol car LOL LOL
THE GOVERNMENT ARE NOT GIVING ANY CONSIDERATION TO ELDERLY AND/OR INFIRM PEOPLE THAT RELY ON A CAR TO GET THEMSELVES ABOUT FOR HOSPITAL/CLINIC APPOINTMENTS( IN NORTHWEST LONDON THIS CAN MEAN HAVING TO TRAVEL LONGISH DISTANCES ATTENDING AS MANY AS 5 DIFFERENT HOSPITALS DESPITE HAVING A LARGE HOSPITAL 2 MILES FROM YOUR HOME) SHOPPING OR JUST VISITING FAMILY AND FRIENDS. WITHOUT OUR CAR MY WIFE WOULD BE HOUSEBOUND AND UNABLE TO USE PUBLIC TRANSPORT. THE NEAREST BUS STOPS ARE TOO FAR FOR TO WALK AND THE UNDERGROUND STATION AROUND THE CORNER FROM OUR HOUSE HAS STEPS TO THE BOOKING HALL THEN MANY MANY STEPS TO PLATFORM LEVEL WHICH SHE CANNOT MANAGE.
AS PENSIONERS ON BASIC OLD AGE PENSION WE CANNOT AFFORD TO CHANGE OUR CAR OR HAVE A CHARGING POINT POINT IN AND SINCE I PURCHASED MY CAR FOR MY WORK AT A TIME WHEN THE GOVERNMENT WAS URGING EVERYONE TO BY DIESEL CARS I WILL PENALIZED FOR HAVING FOLLOWED GOVERNMENT ADVICE.
i AM SURE MY SITUATION IS NOT AN ISOLATED CASE AND THAT THERE ARE MANY MORE PEOPLE OUT THERE WHO WILL SUFFER LIKE MY WIFE AND I WILL BECOMING HOUSEBOUND IN OUR OLD AGE AND ALTHOUGH FIT ENOUGH TO DRIVE I WILL NOT BE ABLE TO OWN MY OWN CAR.
WHAT I AM ALSO CURIOUS ABOUT IS WHAT WILL HAPPEN TO THE VAST NUMBER OF VEHICLES THAT WII HAVE TO BE TAKEN OFF THE ROAD AS A RESULT OF THE PROPOSED LEGISLATION-ARE SCRAP MERCHANTS GOING TO HAVE A HAY DAY WITH SO MANY VEHICLES TO BE SCRAPPED?
For all the questions in these comments, and the concerns raised by non-EV owners – despite attempts to allay those fears from EV owners with first hand experience – I wonder how these comments will change when the Tesla Model 3 is available and outselling everything else on the market.
Will it turn to “I don’t understand why people are buying this car, it makes no sense”? Why DOES the Model 3 outsell the BMW 3-Series, Audi A4 and Mercedes C-Class combined in the USA? We’ll wait and see if that sales popularity is replicated in Europe and the UK, but the expectation is… it will be.
What will people be saying when the number one car by sales volume is electric? When that car is single-handedly responsible for pushing our percentage of new EV car sales from 5% to 15% or more? (Yes, that’s basically saying 1 in 10 new cars sold could be a Tesla Model 3).
I’m not saying it WILL happen. But there’s a chance. I think it’s selling better than anyone expected in the USA, and they aren’t even the ideal market for that size of vehicle, so how will it fair in Europe? Many people say it’s the perfect car for Europe.
I guess we’ll see in the next 12 months…
I currently own a BMW i3 and this article does contain many valid points on infrastructure not yet being ready in the UK and the higher cost of purchasing an EV compared to an ICE vehicle together with higher Insurance premiums.
Evebn afyer considering these negatives I am still more likely to stick with owning an EV than going back to an ICE vehicle, my next EV will definitely be one with more range so that should help with not having to charge so reguarly at same point as a growing number of other EV owners. Price wise it is still costly but there are a few savings to consider as pointed out in this article, i.e. exemption from congestion charging, free parking while charging in Cities like Milton Keynes, fewer services and lower servicing costs, charging rates cheaper compared to fuel prices. Am not happy with higher insurance premiums but hopefully Insurance companies address this in not too distant future.
I used to have an Outlander PHEV but it was big & bulky but it was really cheap to run, I needed petrol for caravan towing only.I have BWM 2 Series Diesel but I want another Outlander PHEV
Problem with electric cars is that many manufacturers don’t believe that they are the future. Some say another 10-15 years of further research is needed. That is why only some decided to go this way and usually they have just one or two models in their portfolio compared to full range of combustion engine ones.
“Many” being companies with billions invested in petrol/diesel manufacturing. Believe me, the world is going to change for them in the next decade if they don’t catch up.
Remember what happened to Kodak and Nokia?
Let’s hope EV’s are added to that list
I understand the sentiment of your comment, but I think it’s misplaced. I think all car manufacturers believe EVs are the future, but they are taking active measures to draw out their internal combustion engine investments for as many years as possible. It makes the most commercial sense to them.
So they’ll drag their feet. They’ll show us concepts that don’t materialise. They’ll tell us they’re “committed” to “electrifying” their model line-up, but that doesn’t mean going EV. That means hybridisation… and only in six more years (for many of them who’ve quoted 2025 to electrify). It looks good on paper, but they want to sell as many petrol and diesel cars as possible before they’re dragged kicking and screaming into battery electric vehicle production.
While they claim to be “all-in” on electric cars, they campaign and lobby governments to loosen efficiency and emission standards around the world, because… they don’t want to have to meet them. In fact, their petrol and diesel engines are incapable of meeting them. That’s their problem.
Since its inception in 2003, Tesla has achieved everything is has with a total R&D budget of $3.5 billion. That’s what it’s spent in 15 years. In 2018, GM spent $35 billion on R&D, and what do they have to show for it? They’re closing 5 factories in North America, and no new EVs brought to market. They’re spending that money to AVOID building EVs.
The only other company that seems to be throwing a lot of money at EVs is (of all people) Volkswagen. They’ve paid out almost $30 billion (and counting) globally from diesel gate and it’s estimated to cost them about double that by the time it’s all done, and I bet they think they got a good deal from that.
But at least they are producing some real electric cars and investing in some real battery research and production.
Everyone else is doing the bare minimum, you’re right. It’s $h!t
Electric is a pipedream. The biggest single factor for me is the length of time needed for a full charge and the lack of charging facilities while my car is parked all day, for example at a motor race meeting or air display. Hydrogen fuel cell technology is wher the future lies but the penny hasn’t dropped yet.
Firstly, hydrogen cars ARE electric cars. They even have a Lithium Ion battery. They are also horrendously inefficient, expensive to maintain and, the biggest handicap, there is basically 1 car available today, and you can’t buy it.
But, charge time will reduce as technology improves. We are already at 40 mins for 200 miles of range, and obviously if you have a driveway then the charge time is 10 seconds, as you do it while you sleep. Look up the various rapid charger networks that are rolling out.
I do 22k miles a year in my car, and it is so easy. London to Leeds weekly non stop, easy as pie.
I’ve got a leaf and my main concern is the lack of working public chargers… most chargers are old and are supposed to be maintained by councils who despite being contacted by the charging companies seem not to fix them.
Until this is reversed it is not efficient to have electric vehicles.
I think you have missed a valid negative in owning an electric car. how long does it take to acquire enough energy to continue on your journey in a electric vehicle from a point of near empty fuel cells (hours)? Compared to a combustion engine near empty tank (minutes}? Long live the combustion engine. I might get myself one of them electric scooters when I have to hand in my licence. Until then I think I rather not drive than own a milk float thankyou
On a supercharger, about 40 minutes to get 200 miles of range. So, on a long trip, drive 200 miles, get out for a rest and a cup of tea, and when you are ready, your car is ready to go.
But given that most daily journeys are under 20 miles, you will have no problem.
Milk float? My “milk float” does 0 to 60 in 4.5 seconds…
Milk float might have been a bit harsh (electric 40 minutes 200miles). I could have a cuppa and pop to the loo. I could also maybe do a bit off sightseeing too maybe take in some of the local places of interest.. I might even use this time to learn a new skill or take up a new hobby. No I just popped so I could continue on my journey asap (combustion engine 5-10minutes miles depends how far you want go)
You have left out the major problem with electric cars. The batteries deteriorate with the constant charting and discharging, think about how long your laptop computer battery lasts for, maybe 300 charges. The cost of replacing the battery pack on a Tesla is probably around £30,000 and would be due in about 4years with normal usage. Trying to sell with the recharge counter up to the 300 marks will seriously impact on the trade in or sale price.
Regarding insurance costs, with the high torque that the electric motor produces as you have mentioned produces acceleration figure equivalent to cars in the 300-400BHP bracket, joy riders will love the exhilaration of 0-60 in 5 secs, on a par with a Eurofighter on take off.
WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Your laptop/phone battery loses charge because you charge it to 100% and then discharge it to near 0%. If you do that, then yes you will kill the battery after 18 months or so.
BUT with a car, you CANNOT do this. It is IMPOSSIBLE. How?
Cars, very simply, have a very large battery and they “cap” the maximum and minimum charge level. So unlike a phone, you can never fully charge or discharge the battery. That stops you from wrecking the battery as you do with a phone.
PLEASE stop misleading people and learn the truth from REAL drivers. There are taxi firms running 100% electric fleets who charge many times a day, without problems.
Join www dot speakev dot com and ask questions of REAL owners.
We have Tesla cars with 400,000 miles on the clock. No problems.
With an acronym ‘EV’ you are obviously connected with the electric car industry. Well done for driving to Leeds and back on one charge, I used to commute each week to Aberdeen and could complete the journey without refuelling 470 miles. In a c***py Tesla I would have to stop twice for at least half an hour each time to recharge increasing my journey time to 91/2 hours. Who needs oodles of torque when cruising at 85mph -10mph? Give me petrol or a hydrogen or a hydrogen hydroxide engine to a battery car with the very expensive overall costs when battery replacements are taken into account.
I have never run out of fuel as there has always (even when Sunday trading laws were draconian, 1960’s) been a filling station within a short distance. I would use an EV for city driving but never long distance. Recently I called on M6 to a services area and noted that all 3 electric points “out of order”. Perhaps when fast charge points, less than 10 mins, are common nationwide I would transfer to EV. Question is as I cannot carry a spare electric fuel can when the battery is running out where do I get a guick replacement charge/battery
Hi, no mention of range of EVs. Fine for short journeys, what about 80 miles plus in winter with all ancillaries switched on?
I literally just drove from London to Leeds in mine, non stop with the heating on 22 degrees. 50 miles left at the end, car is now on charge overnight. I will wake up tomorrow ready to go.
Both the Caravan & Motorhome Club, and the Camping and Caravanning Club has stated that the electric car is useless for towing. The torque is not enough, the battery life is shortened, and if the government carries on with its policy, we see the destruction of the caravan industry, with many jobs and businesses that will go with it. Both clubs are introducing glamping and camping pods to their sites, although they are strangely quiet on the matter, and on some sites, even mobile homes are for sale. I see the time soon when the maximum thing to be towed is a trailer tent, or to go somewhere with a tent, or has glamping tents permanently erected.
Electric cars have more torque than a petrol car you numpty. Go on youtube and look up “Tesla Model X tows aircraft”
But not to Leeds, Total drivel again
There’s that make again Tesla……. towing a plane now, having said that I’ve seen a 20 stone strong man pulling a plane as well, Everyone uses the Tesla as an example a vehicle of which 80% can not afford and does it reflect EV,s across the board? I think the point oldun is making not so much can it pull it more how long can it pull it for, plus I would think the kind of person that would own a Tesla would not pull a caravan.
Bit like a Koenigsegg Agera does 0 – 60 in 2.6 seconds does that reflect every other car on the road – no, my Megane does not come close at 2.6 seconds its still thinking about injecting fuel, and like the Tesla hardly any of us could afford to buy one.
The price you would pay for the Tesla I would expect it to pull a plane and do a million miles on one charge, I would also hope it would get me up in the morning and make a brew for me!
I think I could sum this up by saying that whether you are an EV owner already or not, we all know that the car industry just isn’t there yet with EVs.
They haven’t invested enough, they don’t have enough models in the pipeline let alone in production and available to buy.
But I don’t think the caravan clubs need to be so pessimistic. EVs have better torque so the capability is there for towing, but the vehicles aren’t available and there are other improvements that need to happen.
This will all happen. I think we’ll see a much larger range of full EV vehicles for sale by 2025, and as more investment goes into SUVs and pickup trucks and vans, more EVs of all shapes and sizes will be rated for towing.
I don’t think it’ll be all doom and gloom for caravanning.
Also: https://electrek.co/2017/09/18/electric-motorhomes-rv-solar-battery/
WHY IS EVERYBODY looking at electric cars they are absolutely useless as they do not have a good range and if you are caravanner it would take over a week to get to scotland why does the government not promote hydrogen because they are frightened they will lose control the only way electric cars will work is if all roads are electrified which will take at least 50 years and woul cost billions
Because hydrogen is a scam and 95% of it comes from burning natural gas. Oh and you can’t buy a hydrogen car.
I wouldn’t consider an electric car today – even if prices were vastly lower. They are a MAJOR fire hazard in collisions. Teslas have crisped quite a few drivers and passengers comparative to their numbers on the road. Also, I think it stinks that we, the Taxpayers, are massively subsidising car manufacturers and buyers of these half-baked current models. Don’t fall for the lie that electric cars will be cheaper to run. As soon as there are enough of them on the road the greedy government will find a way to tax the hell into them, as the government does with everything else. And for all those ‘Save the Environment’ Freaks out there; there is very solid research showing that Electric cars are MORE dirty over a vehicles WHOLE life than a combustion engined vehicle. Why? Well, the monetary and environmental cost of both building and disposing of those so-called “clean” batteries is huge. Lastly, the theoretical range of these Government Darlings is FAR lower than actual range. Get out on a cold winter’s day, drive 50 miles with your heater on, and you are liable to chug to a stop on the Motorway; it could be even less if you are caught up in stop-start driving – especially after the car and battery is a couple of years old. Maybe one day these problems will be worked out, but right now, going electric is a mugs game for most people; unless they want to virtue-signal about how ‘green’ they are.
It takes such a lot of effort to undo these off-the-cuff opinions that are unsubstantiated. *Sigh*
So, show us the articles about Tesla drivers “crisped” by dying in a car fire. Some Tesla drivers have died in crashes, but I haven’t seen any involving death from combustion. Here’s just one example where a Model S caught fire and the driver said (because he wasn’t dead!) that he was happy with how the car kept him safe: https://electrek.co/2018/08/22/tesla-model-s-caught-fire-driving-highway/
Another one, five years ago – sole occupant had time to exit safely: https://electrek.co/2013/10/02/tesla-model-s-on-fire-caught-on-tape/
Can you show us how much the subsidies for EV adoption total? The IMF says globally oil and gas receive over $5 TRILLION in subsidies. Annually. https://www.hybridcars.com/how-do-electric-vehicle-incentives-compare-to-oil-and-gas-subsidies/
And where is this “very solid research” showing EVs are more dirty over their lifetime? This research with actual citations concludes otherwise: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM
You say the reason is because “the monetary and environmental cost of both building and disposing of those so-called ‘clean’ batteries is huge” but you don’t say how much, or link to the numbers. Seeing as the monetary cost is not relevant to the cleanliness argument, and the video above explains the environmental cost… that’s not true either, is it?
And you’re making a generalisation about the quoted ranges of EVs being “far” lower. That’s not a number. How much lower? Surely it depends how the car is driven and – as you point out yourself in the very next sentence – the environmental conditions. But guess what? The same things effect the efficiency of all car fuel types.
Show us the data, because the only numbers in your post are plucked out of thin air.
I have to say I have not read about drivers being “crisped” by they PEV’s but I think there is a issue somewhere, Why you may ask.
Our vehicle manufacture has given us its guide lines for PEV as a dealer, we have to have an area where we can deposit the PEV should a battery issue occur, this designated area has to be away from building, flora and forna and preferably have a non flammable surface, you must be able to cordon off the area with a 4 meter (13 foot)barriered “safe” area all around the PEV in case it catches fire due to the over heating battery, the only thing we have not worked out is who will drive the PEV to this area…… MMMm job for the apprentice !
We have all done extensive E learning on them and have just been issued with our 1st PEV bit of safety kit a 10ft wooden yellow pole with a large plastic hook on the end so we can safely remove a technician should be get a shock, wow, a wooden pole! its like back to the future.
2030 I think we will all see the big push the government will then up the prices on fuel for cars only, road tax and would not be surprised if the pull the insurance companies in on it to, it the folk who will lose jobs and businesses I feel sorry for, at a guess possibly a good 80% of the fuel industry will close down by 2040 a lot of back street garages will close down as they will not have the technology or skills to repair these vehicles like they do now, manufactures have tried to close them down a bit by making everything diag tester driven, but at the end of the day a combustion engine is a combustion engine, PEV is way different technology and your back street garages wont catch up on this for years, there will be BIG changes for us all, and I feel the days of us all having motor vehicles is numbered and eventually only the well off will run them. Something had to give though as cars are so cheap now we have become over run with them, the only problem we will have is our independence and how much can we afford to pay to keep it.
As I was leaving for work this morning I over heard a comment on Breakfast TV about how EV’s have dropped in price by 50% to an affordable level of £30,000, I don’t know what model but it did make me smile.
Forgot to mention, the three vehicles with the lowest probability of injury in an accident in the USA (rated by NHTSA):
1. Tesla Model 3
2. Tesla Model S
3. Tesla Model X
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXGN5CyZmLI
As pointed out, the safety features are all included with every Tesla. They’re not optional.
i run from Truro Cornwall to Ullapool scotland [approx 790 miles ] every 6 weeks it takes me a long day to travel it would not be possible with an EV as it would take me 2-3 days
Tesla insurance premiums have been given and ‘manual overlay ‘ due to the high speed drag mode and the risks perceived in misusing the autonomous driving modes. As ever, the biggest factor increasing the premiums are people behind the wheel.