Motorists have been praying to the ‘Great God of Fossil Fuel’ for years to get car manufacturers to be a little more realistic about the emissions and MPG claims for their vehicles; we’ve always known that manufacturers massage the figures, but surely, we can work out for ourselves that a Range Rover won’t offer the same economy as a small Nissan, people just want honesty about it.
The Worldwide Harmonised Light Vehicle Test Procedure (WLTP), which came fully in to force on 1st September 2018, has forced the manufacturers hand in to doing just that – being more realistic with the claimed figures, and in conjunction with the Real Driving Emissions (RDE) test, we should see at least semi-accurate figures being released.
Vehicle Excise Duty
Vehicle Excise Duty (VED), commonly known as car or vehicle tax, is generally based upon emissions, although the full regulations are quite complicated (and we simply don’t have the space for an in-depth review here), a shift toward more realistic emissions or MPG figures could, in theory, have a detrimental effect on VED.
We know that motoring and motorists are seen as an easy target for revenue generation – the last swathe of VED changes came as a result of the government not generating the expected revenue thanks in part to electric and hybrid vehicles, and that manufacturers are complying with their legislation and making more economical vehicles (less fuel duty, lower VED).
Changes were made to include some of the greenest cars – even zero emission vehicles are taxable if the list price is more than £40,000; it’s not purchase price, but manufacturer price, this also includes cars that are less than £40,000 but are then specced up with any additions or items of value, including higher specification engines.
Currently, any new diesel vehicle that doesn’t comply with the RDE2 emissions (which don’t actually come in to force until 2020) is subject to being categorised as one band higher than the official rating for the first year– to ‘encourage’ manufacturers to produce cleaner diesels, you’ll also pay a further £310 ‘luxury’ surcharge on anything costing over £40,000. (Petrol, diesel, hybrid or electric).
The point we’re making here is that the government has basically introduced new rates and legislation as a ‘catch all’ exercise to recoup some of their lost revenue. Now with the introduction of more and more electric and zero emissions vehicles, surely the government may introduce more methods to increase their revenue on the motorist.
The older vehicles (registered before 1st April 2017) will continue to pay VED at the old rate, based purely on CO2 emissions, but could a retrospective re-categorisation be introduced? After all, it’s a long-known fact that car makers have been a little reluctant in being completely open about the emissions of their vehicles, all the government would be doing is effectively charging the actual rate, rather than one based on fiction. Perhaps ‘the motorist’ should be thankful that we’ve had it so cheap for so long?
It’s very unlikely that a retrospective change will be imposed, but it does mean that there is a high chance that a model bought after 1st April of this year will undoubtedly cost more to tax than one purchased before that date, for the exact same model, purely because the figures used are more representative of real-world conditions. Yes, there have been campaigns by numerous consumer groups to highlight the extent of the problem, but with little regard given to the longer-term implications for the motorist – another financial hammer blow.
There is very little to be done – the first year’s VED is generally included in the OTR (On The Road) price of the vehicle, so with some negotiation, that can be negated to an extent, but going forward, it seems that the want for honest emission statements from the manufacturer will now be a need for further expenditure.
If you’re looking for a new car, then now is the right time to get yourself down to your favoured dealership as they try and clear the stockpile of cars that can’t be sold ‘as new’ due to the WLTP regulations – you’ll no doubt find a range of cars from all the main dealerships with significant discounts attached to the price.
It’s also worth noting that motorcycles don’t use the CO2 based taxation system, it’s based upon engine size, the most expensive being £88 for anything above 600cc, the cheapest being just £19 for the year (under 150cc) so if you’re looking for cheap VED vehicles, that are easy to park, cut a swathe through traffic and are generally congestion charge free, they are worth a consideration, if you are that way inclined.
What do you think about the new VED rate? Will the government retrospectively change categories? Are there any concerns for the future? Let us know in the comments.
The Government need to remember that ‘road tax’ is supposed to cover the cost of road maintenance not to pulverise the motorist for their failings in general tax collection elsewhere.
Any vheicle whether electric , petrol or diesel causes roaad degradation does it not?
It’s not road tax, it is called VED which is based on emissions, road tax was abolished in 1937. The councils fund the roads though council tax.
Edit: well any form of tax pays for roads, anything you buy and income tax
The meaning of the term ‘Excise Duty’ is : ‘Tax’. Happy cycling!
I do wish people would get out of the habit of calling Vehicle Excise Duty “Road Tax”, abolished before most of us were even born! It just causes misconceptions, as above. Having said that however, I think there is a very real case for VED to be ring fenced and spent on road maintenance given the poor and damaging condition of our roads.
It was abolished because car drivers (plus van, truck drivers and motorcyclists etc) though because they payed this tax, owned the road and believed they had more right to use it than pedestrians and cyclists.
If you ever “tax” your vehicle online, you will notice that it is referred to as tax. It is a duty to use your vehicle on the public road. Therefore it is a tax on vehicles to use the public road. Ipso facto: it is road tax. The DVLA’ itself, uses the term road tax and so do I…. Get used to it!
Before it was called VED, it was the ‘Road Fund Licence’. The idea was that the money raised would pay for the building and maintenance of the road network. This worked well for a while until the Chancellor at the time redirected some of the money to make up for a shortfall in the budget. Eventually, they came clean, took the the lot and called it ‘Vehicle Excise Duty’.
Seems like somebody watches too much F1 !!! Yakking on about “degrdation” when they used to just say “wear”, seems we all have to use fancy new words nowadays?
U.K. biomass power stations ought to be taxed on their emissions. Based on CO2, PM10 and NOx, their emissions are equivalent to both petrol and diesel vehicles. The mockery in all of this is that the biomass power stations are subsidised!
Yes but if they are taxed it’s the customers that will suffer with the rise of fuel costs.
But, we, the U.K. taxpayers are funding the biomass poluting power stations. VED increases to ‘nobble’ the motorist, goes to central government, which then pays the money to the biomass power station polluters.
What will happen as we move to electric cars? How will the loss of tax on fuel be recouped? Either VED will vastly increase or a new tax on electric cars or a jurney per mile tax . The government cannot do without the fuel tax and electric cars will eventually have to pay . So far this has been brushed under the carpet
Agree with you on this one
I think it is fair to say that any government will find new and creative ways to tax.
Perhaps bring back “window” and “hearth” tax?!
That’s absolutely right! They will need to either:
*** tax electricity more (which will affect domestic consumers)
*** raise VED significantly (which will hit low-mileage drivers disproportionately, and also encourage people to use their cars more)
*** put tolls on all motorways and other major roads (probably using plate-recognition cameras)
None of these are pleasant prospects for most drivers, as the average cost of motoring will inevitably rise yet again.
Geez don’t gove them ideas……tolls on ALL motorways. That’s like a journey prison. You be scared to go anywhere because you’d be losing money even before you arrive at a destination. Loads of drivers will divert off motorways and clog up the A roads. What is the mentality of this country coming to. You try to work hard for yourself but get taxed MORE to fund all the messed up ideas and lazy so n so’s who can’t be bothered to get jobs. Crazy country this.
You forgot to mention all the oversea aid handouts to countries that don’t need them. Just look at the last PM trip abroad, billions have been given away yet our roads, NHS and general taxation are on a runaway course? It beggars belief, when the government thinks it needs more money it never looks inward (or outward it the case of oversees aid) just increase the taxes !
& don’t get us started on the Royals!
Mate I drive an Audi s5. Yes sore on fuel and high on emissions so I get crucified every way possible. Not only that but I’m a single guy so I agree with you. This country is not about reward those of us who work really hard all week but it’s about those who draw benefits and laugh at me who gets up every morning at 5 am every morning and not home till 18.30 so that I pay tax to pay their benefits and have a few bob to myself to enjoy my s5 a few hours at the week end. I’m fed up being hammered as a motorist.
wow, I hope you never lose your job, I’ve lost mine twice, first time it took 2 years to get a job, 2nd took 2 months, and the worst part is both jobs I’ve had/got are minimum wage and I’m left with next to nothing after being taxed and the expense of traveling over 10 miles. I cant even afford my own place yet. People like you need to stop bring up people on benefits. Its not a luxury and its not easy, the money you get is not enough to live on.
Maybe you should apply yourself more, then you might just keep the job!
Derek I am 72 years of age (you sound youngish)and i am afraid that i have had your thoughts for ALL my working life .I worked 60-75 hrs a week ALL my life to keep dead legs in beer and cigs
The power stations cannot begin to produce enough electricity to charge every car on the road, so we’ll all have to walk.
WRONG WRONG WRONG BILL
National Grid have said (and I quote) “No Sweat” on power – no new power stations needed. Look it up!
Oh yes, and don’t forget that refining oil to petrol uses LOTS of electricity.. So much so that to refine oil to 1 gallon of fuel uses the same amount of electricity to move an electric car 25 miles. Let alone all the power needed to drill and pump that oil from the well.
So, as we refine less oil, we have more electricity available. 5,9 BILLION kWh is used to refine oil every year. That is enough to power an electric vehicle 20.6 BILLION miles. Guess how far all UK drivers do in a year? 31 billion. See what I’m getting at?
Sorry but you really need to go away and learn about the true emissions and power consumption of things, rather than just spout nonsense like some bloke in the pub.
Rigs produce their own electricity via gas turbines.
Oh, I thought they had a long extension lead from the mainland 🙂
What they say and what is true is a very different matter. We are not energy-rich, hence we buy from abroad. Hinkley won’t be online for a long time and remember, the trains are all going electric. They will be refining oil for many years to come, as we need lubricants for most moving parts.
I was informed by a chap who was an oil company boss the main reason we produce oil is for lubrication of machines etc.& don`t forget petrol etc. was once a waste product.
Absolute bull, some people believe any #Lefty #Liberal rubbish. Edward next you will be telling us that gays are normal. Edward clearly has clearly got his head in the sand
So you believe the National Grid? No Government wants to alarm the public about risk to electricity supplies. Since privatisation, spare capacity ( to cover for breakdowns and routine maintenance outages) has been paired down to a very low margin. Don’t forget also that we import electricity from France, who would have no hesitation in cutting supply if their need is greater)
Having worked in the Industry, I can assure you that there have been times when we have come very close to not having enough spare capacity but it’s not the type of news that the Government of the day wants in the public domain.
That’s what the gov wants. More exercise means more healthy people so less strain on the NHS. Simples.
Quite right, and, speaking as a qualified electrical engineer, the whole power transmission system couldn’t cope with the massive extra load on it and would need reinforcing, meaning many more controversial power lines and pylons. Although electric cars are commendable, they do not eliminate pollution, but merely transfer it to the sources of power which are generally more efficient and cause less pollution than cars powered by their own fossil fuelled engines.
Excellent point, even the so called think tanks don’t even bring this up, the same thing happened when they brought in the smoking ban, lots of people stopped smoking, not only did the government lose revenue but many people lost their jobs as well. Yes there is a rise in pollution that needs sorting bur how is fleecing the public going to help?
Simple – move to a per-mile charge. You get your car MOT’d/insured, and you give them the odometer reading. You get a bill through for the number of miles in that year. You could pay a bit per month, or in one go.
Something like 0.25p/mile
Easy to operate for the DVLA, minimal work and fuss for everyone.
But I am sure the govt of the day will screw it up nonetheless
What’s to stop you lying?
Or clocking your mileage.
Edward you do amaze me Why not add duty/tax etc to the cost of the fuel AT THE PUMP thenyou get EVERYONE criminals tax evaders thieves overseas visitors and truck drivers who buy in europe and carry enormouse fuel tanks so they do not need to buy IN the UK Eire truck driver s come into britain drive on our rods for NOTHING British truck drivers have to pay taxes/carnets to drive on german swiss etc roads but their trucks do not have to payANYTHING to drive on our roads
Don’t give yourself grey hairs. I’m sure they’ve got some nasty schemes in the pipeline.
Bottom line is the gov need to stop using road users as a source or revenue, we all pay far too much as it is, Scotland is an oil producing country, it’s a shambles what the U.K. take on tax on fuel and ved,
And what about the lack of infrastructure country-wide. Unless this is planned and instigated imminently even though the ban on new diesel and petrol cars is currently due in 2040, it is unlikely there will be an efficient system of recharging. And who will be paying for it? The tax payers of course. So as always, we lose every which way. And how is it generated? Why, by fossil fuel or not-so-green wind turbines and solar panels. What a crock.
Would it not be easier to usethe french system where there is no VED as it is included in the cost of the fuel. That way a car which uses more fuel and there fore more emissions pays more and foreign vehicles on our roads would also contribute and there would be no further cost in collecting the VED.
Adding the VED element to the already high cost of fuel in the UK would make the system ludicrous, mainly because as a nation we travel to different countries more, which highlights the high rate of tax on fuel. Incidentally, in France just now the cost of standard diesel is close if not more than the UK, I must admit the adverse £/euro exchange rate is also not helping.
Electric cars are NOT the holy “grail” of the driving public. I doubt you will see one pulling a caravan, guess that will be another industry to suffer as fossorial fuel cars become prohibitive.
And still the French pay less for fuel even with those cost built in.
No they don’t – I was in France last week. Diesel is more expensive than it is here.
Only because of exchange rate – i too travel regularly to France
Brexit is the issue. 30% devaluation of the £. #stopbrexit
Nothing to do with Brexit
Yes it is, fuel is sold in US dollars and since 2016 the pound has been at it’s lowest level. Facts, however inconvenient are still facts.
I paid 1.85€ litre in France 2 weeks ago all be it on the toll roads.
I saw diesel at 1.72 euros in southern Germany last week.
It was as low as €1.25 a month ago in the towns in Germany, but 1.65+ on the main through routes !
Serves you right then , like the idiots that keep the prices artificially hgh in the UK for most things by not using consumer power by shopping around for everything !
Diesel is 1.50 – 1.55 euro in France 2 days ago.
You were had – on motorway surely?
Short answer to buying Diesel in France… dont. we drive to southern spain (Torrevieja) and back every 6 weeks, it is approx 720 miles from Calais to Andorra. board the ferry with a full tank and then brim it again in andorra where it is 95p/litre (last saturday). even in our 1994 landrover discovery towing 2 tonnes we can drive from calais to andorra, although we do carry 10 litres in a jerry can. if we drive down in the Passat the range is between 900 and 1050 miles. so no need to buy french diesel for us.
Norman, I’m well jealous of you driving down to southern Spain (never driven that far in Europe) Is the small roller coaster still on Torrevieja sea front? Memorable family holiday there about 10 years back 😉👍
Its the same price €1.45 /1.50 as opposed to £1.30/1.35 !!!
Plenty of electric cars pull caravans. Get your head out of the sand. Go on YouTube and search for Model X towing. You’ll see it at a drag strip, with a trailer towing an Alfa Romeo, whilst doing a quarter mile against another Alfa Romeo of the same one it is towing. I won’t spoil the ending for you.
Check out the new Hyundai Kona, too.
This is an unfair comparison, racing down a drag strip is completely different to towing a caravan on a journey which is often in excess of 100 miles. Electric cars currently have very limited ranges, the best is possibly Tesla but even a Tesla couldn’t cope with towing a caravan on a typical holiday trip without several stops for a recharge. Try stopping in a motorway service area with a caravan on the hitch, currently next to impossible at many service areas.
My diesel takes approximately 4/5 minutes to fill and has a range of almost 600 miles. Just check out the recharge times of an electric car. They probably give you an 80% full charge time which on a long journey of 650miles could add half a day to the total journey times (and yes we do do 650 mile trips at least twice a year)
I pity people who travel for a living, they are going to be kicking there heals a lot while charging and before you say “they can charge it overnight” overnight stops cost companies a lot of money and indirectly we pay through the cost of goods.
I am not convinced.
A solution would be to have a caravan with batteries installed in the floor during manufacture that can then be hooked up to your car.
pmasoft ,you are aptly named as u r soft in the head do you not realise that the more weight you put in the caravan the larger the size of the vehicle you need to drive it SAFELY .The weight of the trailer (ie caravan)is critical to the way a vehicle performs on the road
You would need a 71/2 ton lorry to tow it with all the weight of batteries in the Caravan.
More weight, faster discharge when being towed
And who would want to buy a Tesla where the owner lays into members of the public calling them paedophiles just because Musk did not get his way.
My caravan is around 2000kg there isn’t much in the of electric cars that are in my price range that will tow that
I haven’t found and electric alternative yet that will pull my 1300Kg caravan, Just checked out the Kona and it has a maximum towing capacity of 1250kg AND its a diesel not electric. The caravan organisations recommend your caravan weight should be 80% of the maximum towing limit of your car for safety reasons so the Kona can’t pull anything heavier than 1000KG
Very true and what most people forget is that it is illegal to tow something that is the same weight or heavier that the vehicle doing the towing.
Whys my Discovery rated to tow 3500 kg but its max weight is 2720? It worries me that you’ve got so many thumbs up.
Towing a caravan heavier than the car may not be advisable but it isn’t illegal as long as you don’t exceed the car manufacturer’s documented maximum towing capacity or the maximum permitted train weight.
And they are no where nearly as green as they are made out to be. No such such thing as green energy. Wind turbines manufacturing results in tons of toxic and radioactive waste, thanks to those high spec magnets. Solar panels are not any better either, loads of toxic waste. And we have not yet even considered the recycling of both after end of useful life.
not sure what turbines your manufacturing the ones in this world don’t require nuclear fuel to be made..
Not sure where you get radioactive waste from but I do agree the carbon footprint of a wind turbine is not recouped in its lifespan. They are in fact filthy dirty things to manufacture and install and create as yet uncertain edefects to their points of installation.
Been in the electricity Industry over 4 decades so aware of many things not in the public domain….yet.
Has it done the trip to the north of Scotland yet? If so how many weeks did it take?
U need noise .. electric cars just aint the same.. like 2 stroke motors. The smell of castrol r. Chill out Edd. Have a brew xx
Yes, but how far can it go, can it do 300/400 ms in one go
The only all electric car with towing approval on UK roads is the Tesla. Great if you can afford one and put up with the vastly reduced range while towing.
At what price does this car cost Edward.?
Agree with you but that is to sensible for politicians to understand,
I agree, this would be the sensible solution. The emissions from a vehicle will also depend on often you use it. The VED tax is fixed, so there is no incentive to use other modes of transport if you have already paid most of the running costs anyway.
Now we are getting to it..Bring back good old public transport..When you had Trains providing a service that covered all over the country Before Beecham got his Clammy mitts on it and Buses were four an hour..Park and ride Marvellous service..There should be no other vehicles going into the cities and towns..That means lots of Pedestrians and cyclists in these areas..Peace and quiet clean air..What’s not to enjoy…From an 2001 Audi A2 1.4TDI..Owner.
All very well if you are for, able and well, my medical conditions and allied loss of mobility mean my car is my only option to get from a to b. My ability to access where I need to then get to dependon parking being close to my destination. it’s all easy, or so it appears for able bods. My car is my freedom and independence, public transport is a non starter. Been tried and just doesn’t work.
hmm. should we start a change.org petition?
Too simple. If there is a complicated way to do do something the gov will find it. Have to keep all those civil servants in a job.
You really mean ‘Snivel Serpents’. The Civil Service are neither civil nor servile. Are ‘over paid, over holiday’d, over sick leaved and over pensioned. They couldn’t do a real job to save their lives.
South Africa uses the same system and has for years. I 100% agree if would get the foreign registered cars as well. Most foreign registered cars on our road should have been changed to UK plates as the people are living and working in the UK. Would certainly close the door on that tax dodge. 3rd should be covered as part of the fuel charge on the same basis, closing another tax dodge for foreign cars.
A car that uses more fuel is already paying more tax. A Range Rover that uses three times the amount of fuel that a Corsa consumes, will pay three times the tax per mile. The French also have tolls on their main roads.
The French have toll roads instead of road tax, over here we get to pay both road tax and toll roads (m6)
It is also impossible to avoid paying unlike VED, the further you drive and the thirstier your vehicle the more you pay. It’s a tax which would cost nothing to collect and would reduce the current overcomplicated bureaucracy. The DVLA would only need half as many employees.
That’s to simple for this country
We’d then be paying VAT on VED, stupid idea.
tony hey are you an idiot .There would be NO vat on VED as there would be no VED please read the quotes and comments >If you wish to comment then get your head in gear (very apt)
Fuel tax is harder to avoid. Think how many untaxed and uninsured cars there are!
Fuel tax is fairer it is proportional to use, it is proportional to CO2 emissions and it is proportional to road wear.
Politicians will tax anything to the point that the tax take starts to go down, OR people rebel and throw them out of office, which means their gravy train hits the buffers.
The money doesn’t end up repairing roads because it is supporting all the work shy on benefits!, who nought to be out in work gangs to earn their benefits.
it is not fair and would hit disabled drivers that rely on personal transport and would hit those unable to afford ultra efficienct newer vehicles. Yet another tax on fuel would also open the floodgates for heavier taxation to be brought in very simply playing with the figures, no fuel is taxed enough already as is the hard pressed motorist at every level of ownership.
Bring back the blue 3 wheelers as an only disability car ,wonder how many would have one then….
Very well said John. I have been saying this for years. The tax included in the cost of petrol is the easiest way for the government to get income from those who use the most and cause more emissions. I also agree with the foreign lorises and visiting holiday makers will also contribute.
What about commercial vehicles more tax on fuel would would mean higher prices for everything, don’t forget if you’ve got it diesel brought it ! also the french have road tolls.
We would of course end up with the same problem as the Poll Tax. The treasury would calculate the supplement on each litre to ensure that the tax take was higher. I know no-one who’d poll tax was lower than the rates irrespective of the number of occupants.
Quite agree, NO VED. I drive 4500 to 5000 miles a year in a beautiful 52 reg. Diesel Rover 75, full service history, all bills, twice Waxoyled etc.. Does anyone want it? Latest (yesterday) VED DEMAND is £290 that’s getting well up to a quid a day! Over the 13 years I have owned this beautiful vehicle I believe I must have paid for resurfacing several roads, yet still there are cars that make no contribution! BUT, in 13 years I have not caused any pollution from throwing away my car just to drive something newer and trendier. Put all vehicle taxes onto the price of fuel and charge VED on electric and Hybrid vehicles. Just make it fair for everyone. Daftest thing is, if I keep it long enough It will not attract any VED at all (currently).
Just a further thought, Why does it cost me more to pollute less than I did before?
Now is the time to tax caravans, towing caravans not only cause extra emissions from the vehicle that is towing but also from the vehicles stuck behind it.
The tow vehic le causes more emissions – and therefore pays more petrol tax.
God I like you George
Whilst stuck behind the caravan vehicles will usually experience better fuel economy, due to lower speeds, and therefore reduced emissions.
I am registered disabled and receive enhanced rate PIP. At the moment I am getting my VED for my BMW 520d Touring for nothing. If I buy a new car it will probably cost more than the £40k limit and will attract the supplementary VED for 5 years does I still get my VED for free?
Bring back the blue 3 wheelers and see how many folk would claim a disability car….
Another EU Directive by any chance? Thankfully, it does not affect me as my Car is 8 years old, and, I won’t be replacing it soon if ever. Any excuse to raise more in Taxes, like the suggestion by the Archbishop of Canterbury to Tax the Wealthy!
I was a bit tired of paying £555 VED on my diesel SUV (21 mpg) so bought a 1950’s Yank motor and upgraded brakes, added LPG conversion and now it is a little cheaper on fuel than the Jeep to run but ZERO VED to pay and £130 a year comprehensive insurance including breakdown cover.
Don’t need to do many miles per year as retired now and also have an economical motorbike to beat any parking problems
The Government’s answer is always “increase tax”, regardless of the logic or fairness or consistency of it, or their previous record or approach. The trouble is, whoever you vote for, the Government always gets in.
I stead of blaming the manufacturers. The government need to look at themselves!!!! It’s their figures estimate that’s wrong so why should we fork out more for their mess up! Reall nasty old bangers that don’t get serviced properly are the drivers they need to chase. I see many black smoke clouds pouring out from older cars. So now nice new cars will most likely have a DPF fitted and/or the ad blue additive addition to be as clean as can be but yet you want to go and buy one and get hammered on tax! That’s not the answer at all. This bunch of clowns in Parliament are head cases.
Can’t be that many emitting smoke. Anyway the new MOT regs will see those cars either brought up to spec or scrapped.
Really I don’t think this government knows what there doing with emissions,and also brexit but who are we .
The poor sods who pay for government mistakes.
I agree with this one .But my biggest thing with car makers is the lies they tell us is the MPG I had a 14reg Demo Toyota Verso diesel 1600 with 5000 miles on the clock in the book I should get about 60mpg the best I could get was 42mpg. Emails went to &fro to Toyota I gave up. But I found on internet a lady in Canada sued Honda for nearly $10000 she was told her car would do 50mpg but she only got 30mpg she was a solicitor.
I now have a RAV4 Hybrid March 18 reg in the book should get 55-57mpg but again not true the max I have got 39.3mpg. I think things like this should be made known and makers made to give people back money for telling lies.Vic
Seems Vic you are chasing rainbows. Maybe time to stop, let the government and imndustry feel the wrath of the market place, very difficult to achieve but boy wouldn’t it make them sit up and think?
Those ‘book’ figures are nothing more than that. Based on a total of 6.8 miles on a rolling road in tests conducted by VOSA. Personally, I have driven a Diesel Verso and achieved 62mpg and a RAV4 Hybrid and got 55mpg on a 40 mile trip, so maybe its not the car but how you drive it. If you don’t want to drive it in a way which gets those figures fine.
I don’t know why people cry about the figures as every car goes through the same test. So a 55mpg one will still be better an a 19mpg one. Brains should tell you a 1ltr engine will use less fuel than a 5ltr one.
So you think £88 for a 600cc motorcycle is a good deal? I pay this for a modern bike, likely lower emissions than most cars, and it generally does less than 3000 miles a year. Meanwhile, my Octavia diesel, 20,000+ per year costs me £30.
Simply for the reduction in overall road congestion I would argue that any bike should be free. Sadly we don’t carry enough votes for politicians to pay any attention.
The whole thing defies logic.
The last thing any government would do is promote motorcycle useage.
Why not go back to the horse and cart, at least you can use what comes out of the horse!!. Visit Saltzburg in Austria where a guy on a bike follows behind the tourist horse and carriage. He scoops up the deposits and puts them in the bin on the front of his bike. Just think of all new jobs it will provide. Perhaps the government will try to tax that type of transport!!!
The gov talks sh*t, so might as well deal in it.
Shoveling Sh1t is the ideal job for politicians. In fact it’s probably the ONLY job they are qualified to do.
I have a Skoda Desil that pays Zero Road Tax. is this going to change
When I started driving, I learned to drive and passed my test in a diesel Landrover. Pump price of diesel was 78pence a gallon! Councils repaired roads with their own personnel. Verges were cut. There were plenty of Rozzers to nick bad drivers.
Wind forward 40 years. Diesel pump price £6.13p a gallon average. Huge holes in the roads, infrequent verge cutting. Hardly a Rozzer to be seen.
Talk about a progressive society!!!
Let’s face it, those in Whitehall have absolutely no idea!
I passed my test in 1968. Petrol was 6/8d a gallon (36p a GALLON not Litre) and as you say there were very few if any potholes, councils did their own road maintenance, same as for verges, roundabouts looked more like well maintained gardens and there were plenty of Police. Who oddly enough, actually solved crimes and criminals were actually PUNISHED.
All of this, is proof positive that so called ‘progress’ is not of any value when managed by the ‘progressives of society’.
I object to the phrase “lost revenue”, as used here. The revenue is not lost. HMRC never had it because it wasn’t theirs. Neither were they owed it. They had not earned it by doing any work.
On the other hand, thousands of people are forced to keep altering their lifestyle so as to shelter from the rules which seek to reduce the benefits they have worked for.
The revenue is not lost. It was incorrectly forecast by a greedy bureaucracy. It would be more accurate to say “drop in revenue” rather than “lost revenue”.
Why not scrap the VED altogether and increase the tax on fuel, that way you only pay for the time you are using the vehicle.
And how much do we think is a reasonable increase per litre?
By all means scrap VED but don`t you think we pay enough tax on road fuel as it is.
So my car will be reduced tax compared to a Prius because I do at least 40% more mileage in my car with same amount of fuel than the so eco friendly Prius
40% more miles with the same amount of fuel as a Prius. What do you drive and what’s the maths on that?
I presently have a Jaguar XF petrol the road tax £ 520 the equivalent in diesel is £280,surely this cannot be right now the experts have proven diesel emits more pollutants than petrol I doubt very much my tax will be reduced accordingly with my vehicle emitting less pollutants?
Well I’m on the same boat
My car pays £10 more every years because they say the anti pollution systems degrade over time so producing more emissions
Turns out the emissions test at the mot are the same results as when the car was new
I feel robbed
Me too. My Volvo V70 T5 (2004) runs beautifully thanks in part to the initial excellent Volvo engineering and also in part to the wonderful care of it taken by the mechanics at my friends garage. On a long run to see friends in the North of Scotland, ‘some 565 miles each way’, she does a creditable 33MPG at a steady 85mph on cruse control. The MOT results are always well withing tolerance and it’s been commented that ‘the air coming out of the exhaust is cleaner than that going in’. I’d rather trust ‘real world’ observations from a motor mechanic who has bags of experience, than I would some idiotic ‘Snivel Serpent’ who ‘so called’ advises the Minister.
And had you set the cruise control on your wonderfully beautiful Volvo to the UK’s NSL ( National Speed Limit) of 60mph or 70 mph,Mr Jay, you could have regaled us with an even more creditable consumption figure, maybe releasing even cleaner air into the wide but delighted expanses of the Highlands.. By the way, you wouldn’t care to treat us to your car registration number so that PC Plod can be informed, would you? ” M’Lud, the defendant has publicly admitted, in writing, that he consistently breaks the law on speed limits. I am sure you will consider his defence of simply wanting to improve the air quality of Scotland before passing sentence.” Real world, indeed.
Funny how the government knows it gets less duty from petrol and diesel as the cost goes up, but ignores the fact that if they lowered the duty, they would get more money. FairFuelUK has given them the figures, but they aren’t bright enough to get it. They hike up the cost of motoring and transport and wonder why prices rise! The basis of all prices is the cost of transport and with online shopping, the number of lorries and vans has grown massively, so has the cost of fuel for them. They are so keen to go electric, despite the fact we don’t produce enough electricity to cover that and trains and ignore hydrogen, as it’s not so trendy. It is making driving the preserve of the rich and forcing pensioners and the less well off to be stuck in their homes.
1) Can anybody suggest how to deliver 40 tonnes of food to local distribution hubs and onward?
No 40 tonne trucks are around – so onto 7.5 electrics at 5 trucks per load = more trucks = more congestion!!!
2) My holidays are taken in Normandy and Champagne areas of France. Apart from the ferries and Eurostar providing charging points, how will I be able to charge my electric car up? I live approximately 200 miles from ferry (current range of most e-cars), with 600 cars coming off a ferry, a considerable number of French charging points are going to be required. Very near to the ports.
I run a turbo diesel (12 plate 1.6) obtain 55 to 60 mpg Uk (a little extra on long French motorway runs at 75 to 80mph) Petrol owners produce more CO / CO2 / NOx. My particulates are minimal – cotton hanky cleanliness over cold run for 5 miles.
Next car that I will buy – a turbo diesel.
This seems to me that if the motorist is going to be punished once again though no fault of their own because the manufactures of vehicles sold/produced their vehicles and allowed them to be falsely advertised claiming the amount of miles a vehicle would do to a litre of fuel.
This Is going to make many Lawyers happy taking the manufactures to court however Government’s have been complicit as they have know the advertising of false mileage has been going on for many many years. . I see another PPI scandal in the making.
“we’ve always known that manufacturers massage the figures”
If you set targets of any kind, with a financial penalty, targets will be met, no matter how. It happens quite regularly in the NHS, eg where patients are kept in ambulances to meet the waiting time targets. However, whether those targets are relevant is another matter.
The latest push is part of the long running war on so-called fossil fuels, (there is some conjecture whether oil is fossil or not, as oil is constantly released from the deep ocean floor, as in the Mexican Gulf and decades long predictions of peak oil have failed). This policy is coming from the UN, not even the EU. The raison detre is supposed to be to control CO2 levels which are claimed to be heating up the earth. There is absolutely no proof whatsoever that this is the case, in spite of the daily drip feed about “hottest ever” etc. There is nothing unique or unprecedented about our current weather patterns, everything has happened before, but in previous centuries, much worse.
We already subsidise electric vehicles and this will increase the subsidy even more, indirectly, because the government is taking no revenue from electric vehicles, (at the moment). This is a direct punishment for those, (most people), who choose the independence that your own transport provides and cannot afford or find impractical, electric vehicles. If all vehicles were to be electric, there would be no way of supplying the power needed to charge them all, without the use of gas, coal or nuclear. Wind turbines and solar need base load back-up, they are both irregular sources of supply. Zero CO2 emissions is fairy dust and is only achieved in creative spreadsheet models. It can never happen and doesn’t need to be a constantly pursued chimera, damaging our economy.
Lets just face it they they clawing back the money they promised we would save by buying newer cars and cutting the emissions of older cars
Why don’t the government go back to calling it road fund tax and every vehicle pays. Rates will depend on weight, therefore electric cars and petrol or diesel will all pay the same to use the roads. After all it is the weight of the vehicle that damages the road, just look how wide the ruts are on the inside lane of a motorway.
It’s all a joke about emissions if the government really cared they wouldn’t bow down to lobbying from the fuel companies if they wanted to be greener and emissions free the road to go down is hydrogen electric cars!!!
The complications regarding the new VED rates, just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
The simplest thing to have done, was to increase the old system by *for argument sake say £50* across the board, if we’re talking just about increasing government revenue. As for this complicated system this government introduced last year, is complete nonsense!!
There is an interesting fact about electric cars and the cost to old folk!
Do you know millions of old folk are on economy 7 electricity with low night time electricity costs running at half day time costs.
Now government push to electric cars will increase the need for night time charging of cars. This being so, the cost of night rate electricity will rise substantially, meaning all those millions with night storage units will be hit hard.
Yes, pensioners who were led to believe economy 7 would save them money.
Let’s see what will / must happen!
Basing VED on CO2 emissions is illogical. Beyond the manufacturing stage, it is car usage that generates CO2. VED is a tax on car ownership, so there is no true correlation with CO2 burden.
Also if simple ownership is made expensive, high-emission ‘weekend’ cars might just as well be used as daily drivers, thus generating more CO2 overall.
We all know only too well that motoring taxes are a valuable cash cow for governments and are taxes which few of us are able to avoid. Even not having use of a car cannot absolve one from suffering the consequences of ever increasing motoring taxes as buses, taxis, trains and even ‘planes are subjected to various taxes which have to be passed on to users of those services. Of course, atmospheric pollutants from vehicle use are a critical issue, but the reality is that governments lack the imagination to extract the huge sums of taxes they need in any other way, other that PAYE from hapless workers who have no way of avoiding those taxes too.
That which so far seems to have failed to be discussed, however, is what happens when (or rather if) we all end up driving zero emission vehicles which, speculatively, could kill stone dead the cash cow of motoring taxes. Of course, we all know the answer to that. The tax breaks will disappear, if they ever truly materialise at all, because governments cannot run nations on inadequate tax revenues. The whole issue is a smoke and mirrors exercise, tricks of sleights of hands of treasury departments which are intellectually and practically incapable of replacing motoring taxes with anything which can offer a so readily available and unavoidable cash flow revenue for governments. For sure, the motorist can never look forward to any relief. He (and she) is a revenue soft touch. It was ever thus and will continue to be ever so, albeit being ever more swingeing.
Inifecient authoritarian dvla! car tax,licence disk, vehicle exise duty.
The cost of administering this masivly over complex bueroctatic nonsence is huge!
Trying to reduce the number of vehicles on our roads by stealth not by drastic action which would anger most motorists maybe ??
Will this stop crown operated gas guzzlers/cars for the MP’s to ride about in to Westminster be banned from London streets, and will they now have ride in smaller cars.?
I pay £245.00 VED per year for my car, And don’t mind paying that, but where does our road tax money go.? Certainly not on road maintenance by the size and quantity of pot holes.
Now that the Government stopped issuing road fund licenses, many motorists don’t pay road tax any more, but are these cars insured or MOT’d ?
The diesel engined car is now the bad boy on the block for emissions, but the Labour Government promoted diesel cars for many years. However, the Government are not helping diesel car owners to change cars. A £2000 contribution is disgusting when the price of another clean/green car costs about £35,000.
I for one will be running my diesel engined car until it completely stops. Cannot Alford to change cars, and would not get a car that returns 55mpg in petrol engine form.
Just one more method of thieving from the motorists by politicians and civil servants. From local authorities through to national government the motorist is just treated as a cash cow and all revenue gained by them is just a tax by any name.
What about LPG why is it not being pushed is it because they loose to much money I’ve had. Lpg for 20yrs.
Lpg I’ve had it for 20 yrs
My own thought is to scrap VED (since the old argument that it was also an insurance & MOT check is now void) and increase fuel duty to compensate. That way, the motorist is being taxed on how much fuel they actually buy (& hence pollution they are causing) rather than some theoretical amount of pollution per annum which takes no account of how far or where they drive.
Once EV’s have sufficient take up then the Government will really hammer owners for more revenue. Reading that Tesla owners in a Hurricane Area (New Orleans was it?) found they had their battery ranges increased by whatever Tesla were able to do from their base to enable evacuation raised concerns with me if control freak type governments could have access to such controls.
Aside from Cobalt / DRC and other issues with EV’s this ability to control where/when/ where to I wish to go is scary – especially by the control freaks that like to get into power.
I have no doubt that the all polluting motorist will be in for another round of tax hikes. I would like to know based on fossil fuel burned where other users such as power stations stand on how they are taxed for pollution.
Since the new rules were introduced it has never been about how much pollution motorists cause only about a silly rating system based on a minuscule amount of fuel burned.
7 litre V12 doing 2000 miles per year produces less pollution than 1liter 3 cylinder doing 25000 a year but this is NOT taken into account.
WE ARE TAXED SOLELY ON THE POTENTIAL TO POLLUTE-
It is time to put the VED on fuel. Then those that burn the most fuel will be taxed the most.
I bought my Audi A4 Avant 3.0 TDI 218ps in April 2018. It RRP with extras took it above £40k. I was fully aware I would pay an additional £310 year 2 to 6 on it although I protested to the gov via my MP Theresa May the treasury spokesman gave me a bland answer that I read through the c**p and confirmed to me it was simply a wealth tax and they wanted to grab extra money because they could, not for any cohesive policy that made sense. So I still stuck two fingers up and have loved every minute of driving it since and will drive it come what may for may for 10 years now. I don’t drive in London (EVER) and living in the home counties it suits me very well with auto box in town driving but motorway driving just a dream – traffic/roadworks permitting…arghh! at times.
So, I really don’t care if older vehicles pay more because they should as they emit more Co2 than mine – I have AdBlue additive, the engine is very efficient – did they listen re emissions..did they hell. I would never buy an electric car as the fueling/charging infrastructure is just a faff and not there at all – let alone pay to charge electric to my household bills…. they have so not thought it through. I want ease, power, smooth driving and quality, and the emissions scandal may even give me some money if the courts decide.
You ‘pay-as-you use’ the roads. Totally equitable.I drive 3500 miles per annum in a car with an emission of 193g.Someone in a car producing 120g pays less VED (I pay £280) but travels for example, 20000 miles during the year. Their vehicle produces a lot more CO2 than mine. Why am I subsidising these people? Add the duty to fuel at the pump. Much fairer and no-brainer.
So, mowers boats, and many other machines, and folk that race cars and bikes should pay VED so don’t mind me if I take my mower for a drive.
Nigel and others who advocate removal of VED and its replacement only by more tax on fuel: I agree your argument has some merit but you have not said anything about using roads as parking places. The main function of a road is for traffic to move on but parked vehicles on a road reduce its capacity for vehicles to move and generally hinder traffic flow. Because parking on a road is a way of using the road there should be a charge for doing so but that would not be taken into consideration under your proposal, at least not without some addition or amendment. Moreover, if road use and payment only took into account actual travelling there would be a tendency to yet more clutter roads by parking spare cars and there would be less incentive to dispose of a scrap car at a scrap yard, instead leaving it on the road. I concede that making an additional charge for on-road parking would not be welcomed by those who live in houses/flats without off-street parking places but if the argument is that one should simply pay for road use then using it as an otherwise free car park is not fair on those who get their cars off the road when not travelling.
The whole emissions thing is just about ripping drivers off .the same tax for every car is fair . Somebody works hard buy a nice car costing over 40k they get ripped of for more tax why?
Go classic, if you don’t have an image problem, many older cars, are simpler and easy to fix. 40 plus years old and no tax or MOT to worry about, Jobs a good’un.
Why are motorcycles taxed so much the emissions they produce are nothing compared to a lot of cars that pay cheaper road tax
That is a lot of reaction to a scare story
I would happily pay a few more pence per litre on fuel if it gets rid of VED. Currently I pay £290 per year in VED for my car, and yet I drive only around 500 miles in that time. Being such a low mileage user, it seems vastly unfair that I should have to pay such a high rate of tax for roads that others are using and I am not! MUCH FAIRER IF ROAD TAX WERE CHARGED ACCORDING TO USAGE!! It’s not rocket science. It stands out a mile as being the fairest way!! And before you think I’ve made a mistake, I DO MEAN 500 MILES PER YEAR. Ten miles per week is roughly what I do now I’m retired, and yet I get charged such a huge rate of tax!!
Hi the way to get rid of this debate once and for all, same is true for uninsured drivers, simply put the price of both on the price /litre lets say 10p for each. The more fuel you use the more you pay, including 3rd Party insurance nobody can avoid paying and therefore everybody is insured, if you wish then to pay for comprehensive insurance you do that separately as would older/younger or special case drivers.
I think the car tax should revert to be a ‘road fund licence’ and that all road users should pay a contribution whether the vehicle has zero emissions or not. This would be much fairer as everyone will make a contribution.
I agree. But the contribution should be based on usage and nothing else. That’s the only fair way!!
I now pay approx £140 on my Vauxall Corsa travel less than 2000 miles a year, surely the tax should be based on road usage.
When Volkswagen were first accused of cheating Nitrous Oxide emissions I wrote to the Right Hon. David Gauke, minister for transport at that time.
It took two letters before he finally understood that cheating N. Oxide would also cause the CO2 emissions to have been cheated. I was helped in my explanation to the minister by VW announcing that they had also (by default) understated CO2 emissions.
I’d suggested to Gauke that he calculate the loss of tax revenue as a result of this understatement and fine VW that amount plus damages. His reponse promised to “keep all options open and closely monitor the situation”.
The EU is allegedly fining OUR government for failing to penalise VW sufficiently.
As a Mail columnist might say……..”You couldn’t make it up”.
Is it not time that cars that come off the production line should have the road tax paid by the manufacturer, after all they are responsible for the emmissions not the buyer.