Ministers from a cross-party group—the Commons Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) committee—have called on the government to bring the contentious ban on the sale of new petrol and diesel cars forward to 2032; eight years earlier than planned.
The news comes after the government announced they were making cuts to the Plug-In Car Grant scheme and, as of next month, will no longer offer incentives to buyers of hybrid vehicles.
The government has received pressure from various quarters, urging them to bring forward the 2040 target, while other European countries, such as Denmark, Germany, and Ireland have a much more ambitious plan to outlaw the sale of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, a decade before the UK.
Although the Government’s Road to Zero strategy includes the aim that by 2030, 50 to 70% of new car sales and up to 40% of new vans will be ultra-low emission, UK transport emissions have only reduced 2% since 1990, and an increasing number of advisers from climate, energy and industry sectors say the 2040 target date is too late.
The BEIS report says it wants to see hybrids included in the phase-out of petrol and diesel vehicles, but after anger from both the automobile industry and motoring organisations, MPs backtracked from more extreme plans to prevent the sale of new petrol and diesel cars and vans by 2040 by allowing the lowest emission hybrids.
Further recommendations in the committee’s report were for the government to organise the required infrastructure for charging EVs, to make sure that buyers of electric vehicles enjoy preferential Vehicle Excise Duty rates (‘road tax’) and preferential rates on EV company car tax—The report also calls for the government to keep Plug-in Car Grants for new electric vehicles at their current levels.
‘Unambitious and vague’
BEIS Chair Rachel Reeves, who said the government must make 2032 the target for the sales of cars and vans to be zero-emission, said:
“The UK Government’s targets on zero-emissions vehicles are unambitious and vague, giving little clarity or incentive to industry or the consumer to invest in electric cars. “
Ms Reeves said the Department for Transport’s cutbacks of the Plug-in Grant Car scheme “drives the incentives of buying an electric vehicle into reverse,” and is a “perverse way to encourage drivers to move to non-polluting cars.”
“This is only the latest sign of the government’s inconsistent approach to developing the market for electric vehicles,” she added.
Despite the UK ranking as the fifth best European country in which to own an electric vehicle, with around 14,500 public charging points for EVs, the committee said the UK was far from ready for electric vehicles.
Reeves said the report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) “was clear on the need to encourage changes in consumer behaviour, including increasing the switch to electric vehicles, to help decarbonise our economy. “
She added that the government needs to “get a grip” and organise the financial support and technical skills needed for councils to develop the necessary charging infrastructure and help make sure that electric cars are an attractive choice for consumers.
Mike Hawes, Chief Executive of the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders (SMMT), who feels the current 2040 target is challenging enough for the motoring industry said a 2032 target would be “nigh-on impossible”.
Mr Hawes said because zero-emission vehicles make up only 0.6% of the market, the demand for such vehicles needs to increase by 17,000% in just over a decade.
The SMMT spokesman said, “This is unrealistic and rejects the evidence put forward by SMMT on behalf of the industry,” and added that car manufacturers are investing billions into zero-emission technologies but they recognise that “consumers need greater confidence and support if they are to buy these vehicles in the numbers we all want.”
Best country to own an EV
The government say they intend to make the UK ‘the best place in the world’ to own an electric vehicle and, although the car industry expects a rapid growth in sales over the next few years, with so many unknown circumstances ahead—such as whether manufacturers can make enough batteries to support the rapid growth of electric vehicles—you have to wonder if they can make this a reality.
Electric vehicles (EVs) make up 0.6% of the cars sold in the UK, and plug-in hybrids only 1.6%. Overall, they’re a tiny part of the 31.5 million registered cars on the UK’s roads. Although purchases of electric vehicles have increased, UK car manufacturers sold only 119,821 alternatively fuelled vehicles in the UK in 2017, but that number includes hybrid vehicles, too. Only 13,597 of the vehicles sold were zero-emission battery power cars, compared to the 1.3m petrol and over 1m diesel cars.
Buying an electric car is still much more expensive than petrol or diesel vehicles, so, motorists need to see the government offering practical and financial incentives before they can consider switching to EVs.
Many drivers, despite supporting the push to reduce carbon emissions, just can’t afford to buy a low or zero-emission car or find the lack of charging facilities—more so those in rural areas—daunting, and with the recent cuts to the Plug-In Grant scheme, the average driver is in a difficult position.
The upcoming Budget is an excellent chance for the government to discuss these issues and we can but hope they’ve been listening.
What’s your view on the proposed, new target? Are you for or against a 2032 target? Do you think the UK is ready for the changes the ban on petrol and diesel cars will bring? Share your opinion in the comments.
When I can get an electric car of sufficient size quality and range then I will consider changing my diesel car for one. Until then I will stay with a car that I know will get me 700 -800 miles without refuelling.
This government has now made ownership of an electric car even more expensive by reducing the plug in grant, not helping my change at all. A need for joined up thinking here is needed. Little or no incentive, little or no infrastructure, no future investment in electricity generation. Just how do they intend to meet this target?
Bring back the steam engine!! No pollution if fuelled right no hydrocarbon emissions and let’s see if they can tax water use!!
Wow. I don’t even know where to begin. What a massive FUD storm! I think the only bit you got right was leading with the government making electric cars more expensive, but only to buy new, not ownership.
What makes you think there’s little or no infrastructure? I know you haven’t checked, because there’s loads. If you can’t be bothered to read, maybe watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XekvWoTN28
No future investment in electricity generation? The UK is *the* (not *a*) global leader in offshore wind power, and Scotland just announced it’s going 100% renewable, and soon (because they’re already nearly there). Installing renewables is SO cheap, it’s growth is currently still exponential.
And 700-800 miles range? It’s not humanly possible to drive that far without stopping. In the UK, it would take you 12 hours non-stop to drive that far. Why wouldn’t you refuel? Not planning on eating, sleeping, or going to the toilet? Fortunately, that’s not 99.99% of people.
Who wants to drive these cars anyway. Not me and most of my colleges and friends
You’ve obviously never driven an electric car. Get a free 4 day test drive from Nissan and you’ll soon change your mind.
I think the point John was trying to make is electric cars (most of them anyway) are ugly. Who want’s that?
The old ones were yes but have you seen the new Leaf? It looks like any other car in Nissan’s range.
The new Leaf indeed looks like any other car in Nissan’s range – ugly.
Yep, boring ruddy duddy cars for shorts and sandal wearers.
In the Nissan range, it’s either a skyline or 350z for me.
Mmm , let me think. The sheer power, and thunderous sound of a powerful V8 TVR,
The feel and smell of sumptuous leather in a Jaguar E type or Jensen, the handeling of an S1 Lotus Esprit versus a Nissan Leaf. I state my case.
Some contextual info re infrastructure: 2014 Energy usage UK 2,249 TWh (Terawatt hour), 193.4 MILLION tonnes oil equivalent (Mtoe). Transport energy usage 2014 (Gov.uk nat stats) > 50,000 THOUSAND tonnes oil equivalent (Ktoe) or > 50 MILLION tonnes of oil equivalent or > 581 TWh.
Offshore wind electricity production 2016 (Gov.uk nat stats) 1,411 Ktoe or 1.411 MILLION tonnes oil equivalent or 16.4 TWh.
Transport energy consumption 2014, > 581 TWh, offshore wind power production two years later 16.4 TWh. Quite a shortfall.
700-800 mile range and need to stop for a break: Gordano services has a 940 space car park, Gordano services has 4 charging points, (Zap-map.com). Could be a long break.
But are those 4 points working? Usually not when I have looked. Also 4 points when compared to the number of car expected to be EV? Hopeless. 5 hours charge. you will be paying the parking company at lot for the privilege of staying t the point. EV cars are not fit for the purpose of long distance travel . They are toy town cars.
Anyway the rest of the world – apart form Denmark, big deal, has no plans to stop using fuel oil and the self same politicians will be jetting from one climate conference to the other on business class.Pure hypocrites and crocodile tears the lot of them.
GORDANO IS A VERY POPULAR STOP-LAST TIME I USED IT MID-WEEK IT TOOK 35 MINS TO GET IN AND AN UNBELIEVABLE 75 MINS TO GET OUT. NOT ON MY LIST OF STOP OFFS I’M AFRAID
So Scotland is going 100% renewable. Wonder if they’ll stop the oil industry in Aberdeen from drilling for oil. I think not.
No, not really – ScottishPower has no fossil-fuel generation plant, but the electricity they supply through their network comes from all the generation sources of all types, they can’t pick and choose. If a coal-fired station feeds into the grid then the electricity from it energises the grid and is distributed to users along with the inputs from other generation plant.
It’s a poor marketing ploy, that what the press release was.
So, basically, when Scotland goes “100% renewable”, on calm days they’ll be reliant on other countries’ non-renewable generation. That’s 100% renewable *generation*, not 100% renewable *usage*.
Totally agree Ken. There must be thousands of homes along the Scottish Borders that receive electricity from power stations in the North of England, which is generated by coal, gas, or nuclear power stations. That statement is just another media sensation supported by the power mad Nicola Sturgen.
But they don’t deliver what they claim and they keep breaking down, plus undersea delivery cables fail. Might be “the” leader in installing them, but they are still a white elephant and no use for long term. Coal, nuclear and gas are the only sensible options. Even Germany realises it can’t manage without coal.
I went 600 miles from England to Scotland only stopping once for 5 minutes going to the toilet, I had something to eat when I got there, I had a diesel car. The way things are going it be to expensive to buy cars it be back to horse and cart
Nobody in their right mind fills up at a motorway services unless they really have to – it’s 10p per litre more than off the motorway. I expect electricity will be priced accordingly too.
The government were really only paying for your first battery.
How often do you drive 700 miles non stop ? Never.
Once a month AT LEAST – I have a life!
another chap who can hold his pee in for 700-800 miles. get a grip. electric cars can already reach beyond bathroom range. stop and go to the loo, by the time you come out you can continue on your merry way. the ev grant is at £3500 but look at fuel and tax savings. escape the fuel tax trap like I did!
So how do you a person living on the tenth floor of a block of flats plug you car in dangle the cable out the window or if you need a 30 foot lead lay it across a footpath so it is a safety hazard that people can fall over.
Have these people taken these things in to consideration or are they the ones who have a big driveway or do not have a car ???
Do those living in flats dangle a fuel hose out of their windows? You know, you can actually charge these things at public charge points.
Great idea NOT ! There is not yet a good enough infrastructure in place for the necessary number of public plug-in points in or around 99% of areas where people work, especially in urban/city environments. Because of that your vehicle would end up hogging a charge point all day, thereby preventing other flat dwelling EV owners from charging their vehicle. Think on a wider level before offering hairbrained responses.
But a full charge takes hours, its just not practical if you can’t charge at home. Besides how can they still be saying they are zero emmison! They arent.
and if they get the numbers of cars they seek? Stand by for charge point rage.
Absolutely spot on! There is no way there is going to be enough charge points to go around and depending on the what car it is and how long you’ve been driving it, some electric cars can take 14+ hours for a full charge.
And what about people in rural areas? There’s no way they’re going to have access to a charging point locally.
I think you’re second assertion is probably correct Peter, and you’re absolutely right, a solution needs to be found for charging EVs for owners who don’t have off-road parking.
Fortunately, where the government don’t seem to be applying themselves, companies are. There are loads of ideas, research and tests being carried out for things like; induction charging in roads and parking spaces, charge points in lamp posts, destination charging points at supermarkets and shopping malls.
Also, with the average UK driver doing 30 miles per day, and 90% of cars sitting parked/idle 90% of the time, with a growing number of charging options and the ability to top-off conveniently, even the current range of EVs with under 100 miles of range can be managed (people do it fine). The coming generation of 200+ mile EVs will make this all much much easier.
But we’re not there yet, true. Car companies are dragging their heels, saying they’re committed but not selling anything. This is why governments need to impose tough targets, and if it’s possible to sell no petrol or diesel cars in one country by 2025 or 2030, then those same companies can sell the same cars in the UK too – right?
If 90% are sitting idle all the time, why bother with banning petrol cars?
and when I want to go to Scotland 400 miles away, do I push?
How often do you do a 400 mile trip ?
That’s not the point. EV’s can’t do a long journey like that unless you want to spend £80,000+ on a Tesla and who has that sort of cash spare? It seems to me that the only people the government are thinking about here are the rich and super rich, just for a change! >:(
“solution needs to be found for charging EVs”
The solution would be to stop forcing them onto the public, who do not really want them unless bribed.
It is not the time to be buying a car reliant on the delivery of “loads of ideas, research and tests being carried out”.
They all have ministerial cars, or bill us the taxpayer for taxis.
Hmm charging points at every lamppost….some run by BT some by Thames Water and some by Virgin maybe? Annual subscriptions…….Bug business wins again…….
Why doesn’t every fuel station have car charging stations .
Petrol fumes and electrical charge don’t mix!
I completely agree about living in flats. I would like to have bought an electric car, but am not considering it because I am getting older and may have to move into a flat. I don’t want to have to go out and sit somewhere for ages charging at a public charging point.
Large blocks of flats usually have car parks of some sort. All it would take is the addition of charge points which could be put in gradually as and when the need arises.
The basic sum is simple: measure the energy in our total annual consumption of petrol and diesel and compare to the spare energy generation in our power stations. Is it sufficient?
It’s a simple sum to determine the amount of total electrical energy required to power all our transport, but it’s not that simple because the switchover will happen over the next 15 years, and not all that demand is simultaneous.
But fortunately, people who DO need to be doing these sums (like National Grid) have done them. And they continue to refine them each year. Take a look at the National Grid Future Energy Scenarios website for more info:
Wouldn’t trust anything from the national grid. They can’t even keep the power on now, and tend to be in the politicians pockets.
Alasdair. Nearly all power distribution demand is worked on the theory of “Diversity” a theory that is based on a total demand but not all at the same time. Should total demand be exceeded then the lights go out. At the moment the UK doe’s not have the capacity to supply the power to satisfy all EV charging points that will be required in 2032 and as it takes a substantial amount of time and money to build new power plants and renewable energy supplies, 2032 could be a non-starter.
Let’s assume all this eventually happens.
Neglecting a convenient charging point near to one’s home, hotel, etc., who wants to be waiting around while the car charges on a long journey or runs out of juice at an inconvenient, remote place. At least with fuel, it is possible to carry a spare can or walk to a garage, albeit inconvenient. It would be a bit tricky running a power cable to the car. Maybe there will be some ethereal power supply we do not know about. I suppose a spare charged battery in the boot might work, with a flick-over switch. There must be a limit on how many charge points can be fitted throughout the country before becoming a total eyesore.
In addition to general inconvenience of damage roads due to repairing and fitting new gas and water mains, fibre optic and power cables, combined with weather damage, there is now going to be additional power cable(s) for charging points everywhere. Based upon the current situation, I do not think our deteriorating roads will be suitable for driving EV’s or anything else, come to that.
I recently called into a motorway service station for a lunch. I noticed a couple of cars on a charge point. They were still there when I left. Do we all have the patience to wait several hours to recharge on a long or short journey, particularly if there is some urgency in the journey?
Are we prepared to leave our cars unattended for hours in a world where nothing is safe anymore? I can imagine an increase in stolen EV’s and vandalised power points, with the possibility of being electrocuted.
It worth raising negative issues in order to see the positive aspects, if any.
What do you think?
“RontheDon” – I like it!
I don’t think we need to hypothetically assume: this will eventually happen. Your concerns about charge times for longer journey’s are valid and right to ask, but have already been addressed by current EV owners (and who better?). You wrote a long comment, so I assume you have serious questions, so I’ll try and break it down and address them, though there’s a lot to unpack here. (I’m aware this usually falls on deaf ears in this website’s comment section and I’ll await the barrage of downvotes from people don’t like hearing the facts and information – I know… the comments are for strong opinions, not sharing actual information, I get it ).
Charging times. I’m glad you highlighted long journeys, because this should be the only scenario where EV drivers need to wait to refuel. The time it takes to top up your EV depends on how much energy you need to add to the battery, how far you’re going and the rate (speed) of charge you can dump into the batteries. The latter depends on the rate accepted by the car, and provided by the charging point. Batteries also slow down the fuller they get, so charging from 10-50% is a lot quicker than charging 50-90%, and slows down dramatically as SOC (state of charge – how full your battery is) approaches 100%. But with cars with sufficiently large batteries, you shouldn’t need to wait to top up to 100%. 80-90% full should be fine to get you where you’re going or to your next stop, ASSUMING EVs have “enough” range for these journeys. Let’s assume the generally accepted 200-300+ mile range people seem to be waiting for. But we should really be discussing range in terms of hours driven, not distance. I’ll use Tesla as a current real world example of how this works, as their cars have that range and the can charge quickly. You can top up a Tesla in 20-30 minutes from almost empty. That adds enough range to get you another 4-6 hours through your journey. Most long journey owners I’ve heard from talk about family holidays where they’re not the only driver, and the average family bladder range seems to be about 2-3 hours. Bear in mind every 4 hours or-so, people like to have a wee, stretch their legs, eat, get a coffee and for a small family this can easily take 15-20 minutes. So EV owners (currently mainly Tesla owners) haven’t found this an issue for long journeys at all. Humans stop regularly, so do their cars. Simply stop somewhere you can plug in, do what you need to do and the car’s ready to go. In fact, you’ve saved time stopping at the overpriced petrol station on the way out of the services to stand there pumping fuel.
Running out of juice. It’s inconvenient no matter how your car is fuelled, you’re right. More than 10,000 drivers run out of fuel in the UK each year, and the majority of them don’t carry spare fuel and don’t walk to a petrol station. They call… a breakdown service. Both the AA and RAC have mobile EV charging units that can drive to an EV and charge it in situ. Other responders will (I believe) carry a charging card and tow an EV to a charge point to refuel. Now, while the scale of the issue of running out of current fuels is quite large, there’s the potential for this to be mitigated with EVs due to the ability to home charge, and the connectivity inherent to EVs which come with apps which let you check the SOC remotely, and can warn you if the battery is low. So while I’m sure your suggestion of running a power cable to a stranded EV was (at least somewhat) in jest, it’s not necessary. Also, you don’t have to go far to find a an electrical outlet. EVs can still be charged from a 3kW socket, albeit slowly. Running out of fuel is inconvenient no matter how you cut it, you’re right. I think there’s actually the potential for it to not only be rarer, but also less convenient with an EV.
In terms of the number of charge points that can be fitted before it becomes an eyesore, that could become an issue. But in a few generations, that’ll all be forgotten. I’m sure lamp posts and factories and lots of things were considered eyesores when they were first erected. Nobody will care when you and I are dead. But I do think it’ll become normal for every parking space to have a charge point. That’s every workplace, every shop, supermarket, multi-storey car park, on-street parking bay, block of flats car park – you get the idea. It’ll become totally normal that anybody can fuel any car anywhere.
This leads really nicely to your next point about adding electrical infrastructure to support all these charge points. You’re absolutely right, there will be lots of money to be made by digging up roads, pavements and car parks, supplying electrical cable and installation services etc. But that’s nothing new. And… it’ll never stop. Installing a nationwide network of car charging points won’t be the end of digging up the roads and adding new services, so this is almost background noise. If it’s not EVs, it’ll be something else (as you pointed out, gas, water, fibre optic cables etc.) and when they’re all done, there will be something else. But your point is really how it’ll affect the state of our roads, and you paint a doomsday scenario where the road surface is too broken to use. I’m pretty sure that’s not how contractors leave road surfaces, and it’s difficult to imagine a western country going back to dirt roads, so I’m not sure this is likely to be allowed to happen. Sorry to dismiss this point without really addressing it, but… it sounds like scaremongering.
As discussed in the first large paragraph above – with regard to your anecdote about stopping at the services and seeing EVs still charging when you left – right now, there are plenty of old EVs on the roads that don’t charge particularly quickly. In the next ten years I think the new EVs that will be sold will support much faster charge speeds and reduce the time required to charge. You’re absolutely right I don’t think most people would have the patience to wait to charge the original LEAF, but this is an area of EV development that’s rapidly improving (no pun intended). This is a silly example only because it’s an expensive car, but Porsche are about to release the Taycan, their first 100% EV, and it’ll have a ridiculous rate of charge. As you probably know, Porsche are owned by Volkswagen and the group shares a lot of technology (eventually), usually percolating from Porsche and Audi down to Volkswagen, Seat, Skoda etc. (there are yet more brands in the group). So things are improving.
As an aside, Audi was recently fined almost €1 bn for their part in diesel gate (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/audi-fines-diesel-emissions-volkswagen-800-million-a8585981.html) and Volkswagen group have paid over $20 bn in fines to date (there’s still a lot left to go). Some of that money is being invested in EV charging technology and infrastructure. Anyway…
I don’t like to dismiss what seem like legitimate concerns, but the issue of leaving EVs unattended for hours in an unsafe world is no different to how we treat cars today. They get left unattended a lot of the time (90% of cars for 90% of the time), so I’m not sure what the difference will be with EVs. I understand your concern relates to the time required to leave the car charging, but as infrastructure improves and the opportunities to charge are more prevalent, combined with home charging (for those that can, I know) and higher charging rates, I don’t think this will be an issue. To say that EV thefts will increase is absolutely true. If 100% of cars are EVs, then… that’s all there will be to steal. You’re also right that there will probably be an increase in vandalism to charge points and there’s absolutely the possibility of electrocution if you’re (frankly) an antisocial idiot who does that. I think we’re confusing EV specific issues with general societal issues though, because vandalism happens, and people get hurt and killed when they do things illegal. There’s nothing inherently unsafe with electricity – we use it plenty.
So thank you for raising the negative issues as you put it. I think they’re just valid concerns, but that’s why I thought they deserved a thorough response. I hope it’s been interesting, and I’m happy to provide plenty of links to support these facts if anybody’s interested.
Keep asking (genuine) questions. I think there’s a lot of learning still to be done around this whole topic.
“In fact, you’ve saved time stopping at the overpriced petrol station on the way out of the services to stand there pumping fuel.”
The overpriced petrol looks a bargain when compared to the overpriced electric at service stations!
I was recently looking into buying a PHEV (I’m not anti the concept!)
The limited range was not a problem for me. The towing capacity however ruled it out.
My main motivation was running costs so I researched these aspects.
The mileage from £5 of electric was LESS than £5 of petrol. That’s expensive service station petrol too.
Yet I still saw the same car I was considering plugged in rather than buying petrol. I imagine they were unaware of this. I never see it mentioned in these comments.
Where is all the electricity going to come from to charge 10, 20 or 30 million electric cars? It currently takes me less than 5 minutes to fuel my car, what is going to happen if it takes 30 minutes to charge a car? Imagine the chaos on busy motorway service areas. The technology will need to improve enough for vehicles to travel further per charge (say 300 miles) and to charge faster.
Everyone mostly thinking same as me. I don’t want to wait around ages for a charge just want to get to my destination, fill and go. 14500 public charge points, 119000 + electric/hybrid cars sold, no chance if all want to charge and as they dont go as far need charging more, figures dont add up to me. I tow a caravan are site going to provide charge points then charge more for staying? I can reach where going run around for week and then fill up before coming home, need somewhere to charge every day with electric.
Elaine, you can charge an EV at caravan and camping sites.
And we haven’t stopped installing charge points, don’t worry. The numbers will grow together.
Problem is that most EVs do not have the towing capability. I have seen EVs on a camp site but usually towed behind a large (Diesel) camper van.
Every motorway service area parking space will have a charge point, you won’t have to wait to park any more than you do now. But that infrastructure will grow as sales of EVs grow. The current EV charging infrastructure is less than 10% utilised, because there’s actually loads. Look at ZapMap.co.uk to see.
And yes, the technology will improve to charge fast and to support 300+ miles of range. The cars are coming, they’re just not here yet (unless you can afford a Tesla).
Just had another thought.
If we get caught in a queue for petrol or diesel with a relatively fast turnaround, we tend to accept the situation and wait or leave. However, what happens if there are not enough power points, with a line of cars being charged for several hours? I can imagine some very irate motorists with potential violent scenarios, particularly if someone jumps the queue and grabs the last charging point.
I think by the time there are enough EV owners to start queuing, not only will we have installed hundreds of thousands more charge points in the UK alone, but charging times will be reduced drastically to minutes.
I think you’re also still imagining dedicated charging stations akin to petrol refuelling stations where people go specifically to charge. I don’t see this being necessary when people charge at home, at work, at the shops, in town, basically everywhere they park. There almost shouldn’t/won’t be a need for dedicated refuelling.
Alasdair. As you seem to be the “Oracle” of EV charging, can you advise as to how much per KiloWatt we will have to pay to charge EV’s in the future when Fossil Fuel vehicles are no longer on our roads? At present Tax Revenue raised from fuel duty alone for the period, 2018/2019 is estimated to be £28+ Billion pounds. By 2032 this in no doubt will be much higher. Revenue that must be raised to offset that which is lost, added to this the cost of the infrastructure to install and upgrade the power systems required to meet the demands of millions of EV’s. and please don’t quote that electricity in the future will be very cheap as it is still rising in cost even though we have some renewables.
It is a known fact that the motorist is a “Cash Cow” for taxation so what difference is it going to make to the cost of motoring.
I suppose one answer is “We Must Save the Planet at any Cost” A one way trip to political suicide in the eyes of many.
Reality check and an inconvenient truth for the green zealots.
Words need to be clear, so much talks about a petrol diesel ban.
Is it not a ban on new car production. While the existing vehicles remain in the market place and likely subject to enhanced pressure to get them off the road.
Just what is the ban applicable to. Passenger cars only ? Commercial vehicles, lorries, trains, garden mowers?
Good question. More needs to be done about lorries, trains and boats.
Not forgetting we have a government that, less than 18 months ago, scrapped wholesale plans for electrification of the UK rail network. The plans are based on idealism and not affordable in the foreseeable future in the UK, because as a nation we don’t generate sufficient wealth to feed aspirations.
Of course, if we were cash-rich, like the Saudis for example, then we could do all these things.
It’ll be too late by then anyway. Should’ve been initiatives to do this by 2022 or 2025 or something.
I’m an IT field engineer and drive around customer sites for my living – Sometimes I need to travel long mileages to a site where only an hours work is required to resolve the IT fault then I have to drive back – Can be up to 500 miles in a day sometimes. Obviously with a diesel or petrol car car this is easily possible as it doesn’t take long to refuel. From what I’ve seen of EV cars, this would not be possible without a long wait for a re-charge at some point – So it doesn’t work. The only way round this issue that i can see is for all vehicle manufacturers to use the same type of battery cells that are then interchangeable between different types of cars & make them easy & quick to change – Then instead of having to plug your car in you simply change your drained battery for a full one, maybe the current fuel stations could become places where you go to get a full battery & hand in your drained one for them to recharge? Not sure how viable any of that is, but unless something happens to make refueling / charging as quick as it is currently, then I cannot see how they can make EV vehicles work for everyone?
A valid concern, but you are in the VAST minority of drivers. Very few people (proportionately) have that kind of driving pattern. Your scenario will definitely take more time to address.
Now, I know people on this comment section will have a natural vested interest in fuel prices because they probably drive more than most people, but please remember you don’t represent the average driver. EVs can meet their needs even if they can’t meet yours… yet. And they will.
But you’re still right, making EVs that work for everyone is a real challenge. The focus is first for the low hanging fruit (those who poodle around doing the school run and a spot of shopping or commute less than 10 miles to work). EVs already address that market now.
So what about all us happy caravan owners? Any electric cars that can tow? Would probably only make it to the end of the road before needing a charge!
Currently only the Tesla Model X. More will come Little Box, don’t worry. And the towing experience with an EV will be great with their massive instant torque. You’ll probably barely notice you’re towing.
Yep, but a Tesla does not give you that feel and sound of a V8 engine. It’s just a vehicle from a to b. That’s it. No joy, no excitement, no feeling of belonging, and no historic attachment to our motoring heretige.
Well electric cars were the first cars. Just that a fellow called otto perfected the valves in a petrol engine an battery tech wasn’t good so petrol took over. So electric cars are heritage.
So in other words, Otto enhanced the car by developing and fitting a better motor. Therefore, petrol cars win hands down.
I have a PHEV which mostly runs on electric unless I’m doing a long journey. Let me tell you that I HATE it when the engine cuts in. There is something supremely satisfying when gliding around smoothly and silently and not creating any pollution. If that doesn’t worry you now, think of future generations who will suffer because of our love of ICEs, and they will blame us for not doing more about it sooner.
Really, I’d find that sooooo boring. To be honest. Life’s to short to worry about decades in the future, so I don’t think about it. Yes, a few polar bears will survive, and the glaciers will melt slower, but to be fair, I’m to busy living for now. Who knows, I might die tomorrow, and if future generations blame me, what the hell, I won’t be around to worry about it.
The other evening on TV a well known personality running a program on the subject admitted his electric car only had a range of 75 miles between charges which suggests that whilst OK for local urban journeys would be a non starter for use holidaying around the UK.
In addition whilst you could have a charging point installed at home anyone living in a terraced property would be unable to use it as Health and Safety concerns would prevent the use of trailing leads across a public pavement.
In addition whilst the use of public transport should be encouraged in many ways local authorities are not encouraging people to do so.
In Staffordshire the County Council have decided to reduce the travel time available for bus passes.
Elderly people who wish to use the busses are to be prevented from using them before 0930 and if they needed to go to a hospital to make an appointment could not do so before 0930.
Today I made enquiries to travel from Hednesford to Barmouth by rail for a day out
The journey time one way by rail was around the time I could do the journey there and back by car.
Someone needs to get their act together
“In Staffordshire the County Council have decided to reduce the travel time available for bus passes.
Elderly people who wish to use the busses are to be prevented from using them before 0930 and if they needed to go to a hospital to make an appointment could not do so before 0930.” …for free.
But I agree someone needs to get their act together, I’ll tell you a funny train time story. I’d like to take the train to work. The only available route requires me to catch a train at 0720 which gets in after a bunch of changes at about 1030. But to get home I’d have to catch an overnight train that leaves after 2000 and gets in at 0715. Great.
quoting the daily star 27th April This year over 48,000 old people died from the cold in there homes in the UK so i dout gov will give a toss , as far as they are concerned we are living to long and theirs not enough money in country to pay the pensions , hence retirement age going up and up wont be long till it hits 70 .. as far as electric cars not enough electric to keep lights in your home let alone fuel cars of the nation, quite a few electric power stations are about to be shut down , so i think there will be black outs if any thing ..long live the CON-servatives
Well at least you”ll be saving the Planet
Absolutely ridiculous. There are millions of car drivers who need to be able to use a car with a large range, which most electric vehicles cannot reach, and to tell someone their pride and joy is now unusable so you need to scrap it for a plastic hairdryer is totally totalitarian. Are these do Goodeers going to compensate the caravan owners or motor home owners, who will have to scrap their vehicle because eventually the fuel that they need is to be phased out, because as far as I am aware, most electric vehicles haven’t the power or range to pull a caravan, or drive a motor home, and as for the classic car industry, (which by the way, is worth 5 and a half billion a year), what is going to happen to them? We don’t have the inferstructure to support mass electric vehicle ownership, we often travel quite a way to our place of work, the strain on the national grid would bring the country to a halt ( Christ, a dust of snow can do that, so plugging 2 million or more cars in to charge at 6 o’clock would kill the grid altogether), and most motorists do not like electric vehicles. We would need multiple new power stations, or a gazillion wind turbines, which blight our countryside and coastlines, and people who still need petrol vehicles to travel around in because they don’t have a middle class income living happily in the Cotswolds, would be transportless. Make cleaner fuel by all means, but for the love of all that is holy, think before you jump.
If it was me, I would look at retro fitting all public service vehicles to electric. I’m sure police cars, ambulances etc may be able to run on electric power. I’d also make sure the ministers cars were electric, as thechnically, they don’t go anywhere. Fire engines may be problematic though due to the weight. Buses could also possibly be run on electric power, but probably on a tram style set up.
Can you imagine an ambulance being called out early hours of morning having been on shift for at least 6 hours answering various call outs. How do they keep their vehicle charged. With recent closure of units in various NHS hospitals , patients need to be transported to larger hospitals that are often over 70 miles away especially in Highlands.
Not a practical solution to electrify at present.The same applies to any of the emergency services as they clock up some large mileages during their shifts, often the vehicles are on the road 24 hours a day 365 days a year.
Positive Diodes !
Petrol and a Diesel will be available until at least the end of this century – demand and supply will dictate when it is no longer available (when did you last by an 8 track or an audio cassette or VHS tape ?). You don’t need to scrap anything.
The push for current tech EV vehicles reminds of of the push for diesels a few years ago, and in time they will also be saying EVs aren’t the answer. Too much impact to mine the materials and make them, too much impact with replacing the batteries and too much impact generating the electricity to charge them. Let one the inalct of installing the infrastructure for more charging points.
For the UK to adopt 100% electric vehicles current generating capacity will have to be doubled – by 2032?
I will buy an electric vehicle when I can:-
A. Fully charge the battery and make a journey of at least 500 miles without the need to re-charge it; in my current low emission diesel I can travel over 700 miles without the need to re-fuel.
B. Re-charge the battery en-route in the same time as I can currently re-fuel with diesel.
C. Not have concerns about having to replace the fuel tank, i.e. the battery, after a few years operation.
A. Why do you want to refuel so infrequently? If you’re someone who can plugin in an EV at home, you can start every morning with a fully fuelled vehicle.
B. You need to consider the total time stopped when refuelling, including toilet, eating, drinking and refuelling (this only applies to long journeys where it’s necessary to refuel en-route, see point A.) – so if you’re doing this every 500 or 700 miles – congratulations Rickaby, you’re superhuman! If like a regular person you stop every 200 miles or so, then you may save time charging an EV for the 10-15 minutes it takes you do wee, eat and drink by not having to refuel on top.
C. Who do you know who’s had to replace their battery in an EV? Where did you get this from precisely? (Please provide a link).
Alasdair – I travel in remote Scotland – lucky to find even a petrol station or a shop. Croabh Haven is one hour from either. What solution do you propose up here?
There are just 5 charge points in Scarborough and 34 in the whole of York according to York Radio today. Some of these are on private land. That said I cannot see a “gold rush” type hustle to even consider an EV let alone go out and buy one
There are hundreds of millions of charge points in the UK – you can just plug your EV into your 3 pin mains, you know. Will fully charge your EV overnight while you sleep.
hundreds of millions of live cables snaking from flats, houses, tower blocks in all weathers. Perfectly safe and organised no doubt.
Obviously this only applies to people with a driveway.
Just imagine the amount of unemployment this will create, how , the caravan industry and all that is associated with it, it has been proven that no other vehicle apart for diesel and petrol vehicles are capable of towing a caravan, even hybrids have been ruled out. You might say well good but what about all the sales and repair outlets, caravan sites, caravan manufacturers, even the tent users, a great deal of people in this country rely on this industry for their annual holiday. I don’t think the government has looked into this, electric cars – zero emissions, I should cocoa what about the industry that produces the electricity that is definitely not zero emissions and never will be, the amount of electricity this country uses be it domestic, industrial etc ,etc wind power or what ever will never be able to cope so oil, coal, gas, nuclear and what ever other source they use to produce electricity will still be polluting the atmosphere.
Millions of people worldwide have lost their jobs since we no longer use horses and carts to get about everywhere.
Here’s a thought. The ban will only apply to new car sales of petrol and diesel vehicles. It does not ban the lease of such vehicles, so theoretically, if a lease company moved its offices overseas, and by using online tools, you could lease a brand new petrol or diesel car from an offshore company that is not compelled by the ban. After all, your not buying and there not selling. You could also purchase a new petrol or diesel vehicle from another company in another country ( say Japan) and have it shipped to you direct, although you would have the shipping costs to consider, but they can always be absorbed via deals etc.
Your picture shows the huge numbers of cars stockpiled. What will happen to them? I doubt if I will be driving one of these so called electric cars. Unless of course the Government adds an overhead cable like the railways to allow me to travel long distances.
Some contextual info re infrastructure: 2014 Energy usage UK 2,249 TWh (Terawatt hour), 193.4 MILLION tonnes oil equivalent (Mtoe). Transport energy usage 2014 (Gov.uk nat stats) > 50,000 THOUSAND tonnes oil equivalent (Ktoe) or > 50 MILLION tonnes of oil equivalent or > 581 TWh.
Offshore wind electricity production 2016 (Gov.uk nat stats) 1,411 Ktoe or 1.411 MILLION tonnes oil equivalent or 16.4 TWh.
Transport energy consumption 2014, > 581 TWh, offshore wind power production two years later 16.4 TWh. Quite a shortfall.
700-800 mile range and need to stop for a break: Gordano services has a 940 space car park, Gordano services has 4 charging points, (Zap-map.com). Could be a long break. (There are also 8 Tesla chargers but I assume Tesla vehicles only, not sure).
Anyone talking about recycling millions of huge electric car batteries? Impact on environment?
Can you imagine the call on the Grid with all these EV’s plugging in at all sorts of times!!..We would go back to the old days with Blackouts across the UK…Or is this another ploy to further enhance the need to build Nuclear power stations ..Which this Government is all in favour of…and please stop trying to put Britain forward for leading the world in zero emissions…We are surrounded by non believers who by taking care of themselves are thriving…Whilst we have a struggling economy..
It’s alright having an Electric car, but it’s the charging time, if you had an appointment then you had to stop to charge you car you would be late
I think the obvious answer here is to set of a bit earlier
I will buy an electric car when all of the following applies;
1) The cost of the vehicle is equivalent to the cost of a vehicle with a combustion engine.
2) The realistic range of the vehicle is at least 500 miles between charging.
3) Charging to a full charge takes less than 5 minutes.
4) The cost of the electricity for charging a vehicle is clearly indicated on all public chargers.
5) All car manufacturers adopt a standard fast charging plug
Alasdair makes well-structured sensible points. For me, with a driveway and taking short journeys of usually ten miles or less, the electric solution would seem the obvious choice – when the cars etc. become competitive pricewise. Interesting to hear that Scotland will be 100% on renewables soon. Well done, Alasdair.
Rather walk to be honest.
But my bottom does not have a tow hitch
Whilst this issue is full of ideas not thought through properly, but then again we are talking of government (regardless of party), the use of the headlines for this tread are also not thought out. The government is NOT banning anything to do with car sales in 2032, it is an idea being put forward by groups, that again don’t think before they act. All this business about saving the planet reminds me of something said in a film I saw recently. WE, the human race, will all be dead and gone. But the planet will still be here.
Yeah, this headline is very sensationalist and misleading.
I’ll be honest I don’t want an electric car, I won’t be getting one (unless forced at gun point) and in all honesty I really couldn’t give a stuff about the environment.
Replacing every single car in the world with an electric one is going to do jack s**t in the grand scheme of global warming!
Well, I’m sure if we all go electric to satisfy the environ mentalists, China and the US will stop mining coal and burning it in their power stations. I think not.
What is needed is a standardised battery for electric vehicles. Renault did start a scheme whereby you could drive your Renault electric car into a recharge point at a garage and the battery pack would be swapped out for a fully charged pack in about 5 minutes. This is the only way that battery vehicles become a practical solution It also enables them to monitor the battery and the motorist can be certain that they are getting a good functioning battery. As the batteries are normally leased this is an obvious solution. Just needs the manufacturers to agree to a standard battery size and capacity so they are as simple to change as a AA batteries only a bit bigger.
It’s all very well to insist that all new cars post 2032, but the Go ernment seems to be doing little to add to the electrical power generation to support the résultant demand for more electricity. It takes about 20 years to bring a new power plant on stream, so already there’s a mismatch in timing. As we all know Neuclar power takes even longer. That coupled with the forecast shortage of power generation suggests we might have a lot of empty roads in the years to come.
For my money I would prefer a car with a hydrogen fuel cell. At least the cell can be regenerated in significantly less time than it takes to recharge an electric powered car.
The trouble is car manufacturers and the Government are concentrating on electric cars. You don’t see many hydrogen fuel cars or hear of money being put into developing them. They would be the ideal cross over until electric cars are cheaper to buy and more efficient.
how can they still be saying they are zero emmison! They arent
As usual, the powers that be are approaching this all wrongly.
I haven’t got a diesel or petrol / diesel pump in my front garden nor have the residents on high rise flats got pipe lines up the outside walls.
We go to a FILLING station to top up our vehicles, when the gauge tells us remaining miles.
I can’t believe the petrochemical companies are going to lay down and lose their roadside real estate?
They and the battery manufacturers need to be developing fast charge batteries or rapid exchange battery services ….and get the heavy wiring necessary just into their filling stations.
Then we can all carry on like nothing happened….apart from losing thousands on our smelly old cars.
It seems to me that the European roll out of low emission zones will be the incentive to persuade people to buy into Low emissions. However I don’t understand why hydrogen has not been exploited as presumably this could be filled up as quickly as petrol & sold in existing garages; unlike charging a battery.
So, set a nearer date as a binding target, with no knowledge or understanding of whether it’s achievable or whether consumers want it or what it might cost !
Completely unrealistic, head in the sand idealism.
Perhaps we should look at an alternative strategy for charging EVs, Why don’t vehicle manufacturers and Service Stations (eg. BP, ESSO, Tesco etc) get together to offer a standardised Battery Pack replacement service, whereby the car battery-pack assembly is replace at the service station for a fully charged assembly. This would mean painless and quick visits on our journeys around town and country and the benefit of ‘filling up’ virtually anywhere.
The Tesla S & X 85Wh battery packs weigh 540kg, are mounted in the floor and are about the size of the floor area.
Where would the service stations store them all and how many charging stations would they need to recharge all the spent ones? Or would they be transported via artic to a large recharging centre and back?
As a perspective, if tyres needed changing on a daily basis can you imagine how many the likes of Kwik-Fit etc. would need to keep in stock and the space required.
So much for electric cars but with electricity cuts threatened in the winters will there be enough electricity?
Electric cars are not the answer. It’s a pipedream. Hydrogen fuel cells make more sense. I will never buy a car that takes more than a few minutes to refuel and getting the amount of energy required down an electric cable without massive voltages is beyond the laws of physics. It’s time these politicians woke up to reality.
How does cold and wet weather affect EV performance and range?
So what happens if we go ALL ELECTRIC and there is either a power cut , due to excessive demand , or worse still , as many of our providers for electricity have now been sold by our government and are based outside the U.K. , they can either hold us to ransom or just cut us off .
Can you imagine acting as a peace commission in a war torn country asking all warring parties to wait a few hours whilst you charge up your patrol vehicle . Yes far fetched but have they thought about the possibility ?
Driverless cars will be electric , at the same time there will be millions of older self drive vehicles on the same roads . Can you imagine the chaos . I hope to live to witness it , better than going to the comedy club .
You could say that other countries are already doing that with our reliance on combustion vehicles. Where do you think the oil to make combustion fuels comes from? Who sets the price for a barrel of oil? Certainly not us as we hardly produce any oil and if the oil producing countries cut the supply where would that leave us? How long would our fuel supplies last? Things would soon grind to a halt. Just look what happened a few years ago when tanker drivers went on strike there was chaos with panic buying and garages running out of fuel.
Look at what’s happening now with brexit we’re being held hostage by Europe and panic is starting to happen with the prospect of a No Deal.
Watch ‘Mad Max 2’ if you haven’t already watched it.
Why just electric ? Hydrogen power is now available a much better power source. No cables no pavement obstacles Electric is no go. Government and their advisors have no idea at all
The most worrying thing about all this is where are they going to tax us to fill the £30 billion plus fuel duty black hole they are going to have
No doubt they’ll tax us to the ball sack via the electric we use.
I thought that it they could be charged throu WiFi getting a fast broad band width would do the gob 👍😂😂💡
When will this “Save The Planet ” nonsense end. EV’s use electricity for God’s sake—a lot of it generated by fossil fuel fired power stations. What caused the Global Warming that melted the 200 metre thick ice that covered the UK during the last ice age. No factories or IC engines then but it happened fast.
When will the government stop being a sheep led by other sheep? The carbon footprint generated by electric car manufacture is equal or greater than that of a similary sized fossil fuelled car, due to battery manufacture. The CO2 footprint of the fuel used (electricity to charge the battery) is comparable to that of refining fossil fuel. And unless U.K. moves to nuclear power, other emissions from power stations to generate all of the extra electricity needed bSo, no great advantage environmentally so far. Then comes “the biggie”…. recycling the old batteries and manufacturing new ones when the batteries are about 3 years old. How many petrol or diesel cars need a new engine at 3-4 years old? Another huge emission caused by mining rare elements and then manufacturing the batteries.
All of this aside from the enormous cost of providing a new infrastructure to allow charging of these cars. Think you’ll be able to charge it on a 13 amp plug. Think again!
Why would you want to charge it on a public charging point when you have an electric tariff that includes charging a car, but never mind the 10 floor what about the 25th floor or higher but then we still have thousands of terraced housing and newer builds without a garage or drive way all these cables going up and down the road to there vehicles as I sometimes have to park around the corner over night.
In 2032 how many new cars will be left unsold in the many old airfields around the country
None. Manufacturers will have stopped making new ones by then. They will all be EV or petrol hybrid.
Absolutely ludicrous decision making. Don’t the government realise that the majority of the UK population will struggle to afford to buy an electric vehicle? Very few of us are earning anywhere near as much to be able to run an electric or hybrid car, especially in light of the fact that the government has got rid of the help and support that has been available in order for us to be able to switch from diesel and petrol run vehicles. Isn’t it about time that the politicians came down from their ivory towers and listened to the various organisations that actually know what is required in order for us to be able to switch to alternative fuel vehicles. One of the groups of people who are going to struggle the most are those of us who are disabled and cannot work, and we are going to be imprisoned in our own homes unless we get more help to be able to get around. How would the government fair if they were in that position? Not very well I wouldn’t have thought. So please listen to the experts in their field of excellence so that all of us are able to drive alternative fuel cars.
Please can the government listen to the experts in order to ensure that those of us on limited income, especially those of us who are also disabled are able to afford alternative fuel vehicles. Not all of us enjoy income anywhere near as much as the politicians who are making these life changing decisions.
Alternative fuelled cars are still very expensive to purchase and without the subsidies – which are being discontinued – many of us who are disabled will be condemned to losing what independence we currently have and will become housebound. How many politicians would be able to cope in that sort of position? Please retain the assistance for those who are on reduced income when making life changing decisions on the abolition of petrol and diesel engined cars.
Very rare the governments listen. Take 1984. I’m an ex-miner. We warned the country that by shutting the mines there would be a future energy crisis. We warned of the desemation of jobs. We warned of the desemation of communities, and that we would become a low wage economy. Look what happened.
TYPICAL GOVERNMENT STRATEGY – PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE.
CUT THE TAX ON LOW/ZERO EMISSION VEHICLES AND KEEP THE GRANT FOR PLUG-IN CHARGING POINTS.
CURRENTLY, MY LOCAL ALDI SUPERMARKET HAS PUBLICLY AVAILABLE CHARGING POINTS BUT BECAUSE OTHER MOTORISTS USE THESE PARKING BAYS THE OWNERS OF APPROPRIATE VEHICLES HAVE NO CHANCE TON USE THEM.
The 2032 target is even more unrealistic than the 2040 one. Successive Governments have shown themselves incapable of delivering large infrastructure projects on time to budget. Crossrail, public sector IT, HS2, etc etc. What makes anyone think that a) they will do any better this time in getting enough charging points available and enough incentives for everyone to buy new expensive cars? They will need an electricity infrastructure the design and magnitude of which is like nothing which has gone before. How do they think people on long journeys will recharge when EVERYONE needs to charge at the same time. Service stations now have a few specialist charging points (Tesla) and just a couple for all the rest. Tens of thousands will be needed across the country. And what about houses and flats without adjacent parking spaces? b) how will they deal with the thousands of us reliant on cars in the countryside (stop being city-centric and think rural too), on a daily basis. We can do nothing without a car – go to work, do the shopping, to hospital, the GP, the dentist, visit friends and relations, participate in sport or other social or voluntary activities. Policy for years has resulted in fewer buses, and the nearest rail station may be miles away. Perhaps Government should lead by example with a trial project making EVERY Government vehicle – from the Prime Minister down – electric and solely reliant on the current infrastructure. Now that would help concentrate the mind as to the the reality of what is being proposed! Final thought; over the past few decades the UK has developed a very successful car industry with Japanese and more prestigious makes such as JLR delivering jobs and growth to our economy. Sadly the muddled thinking form Government about when to go carbon free, whether it is feasible even by 2040, has put all this progress, jobs and growth at risk. The pressure to demonise diesels has already meant job cuts and reduced sales of some of the cleanest cars ever developed at a cost of millions of pounds by companies working to deliver on Government policies which have now been swept away without any kind of thought or consultation. Is anyone ready for this?
Great idea, let’s think first about the artic UK or foreign, I wonder if very lay-by and scrap of wasteland currently used for parking going to cluster of charging points in every one? On a more general note when this EV run out of juice because nobody can find a charger, or they are stuck for hours in motorway accident queues will there be enough recovery vehicles to tdrag them to a charger. I gather you can’t just turn up with a bucket of electricity and tip it in. Whilst it sounds like a wonderful idea maybe not going the whole hog would be more realistic. Say electric plus a capacity t do say 100/150 miles on petrol or diesel with the vehicle generating its own power whilst moving might be more realistic.
Why not put the bulk of long distance deliveries on the train, 1 train 40 containers for 200 miles must be better than 40 lorries doing 200 miles. True a lorry delivery at both ends would be required but the distances would be small. Increase bus service especially in rural areas. Put closed cross country railway lines back in business. There nmust be simpler ways.