The head of Highways England, Jim O’Sullivan, said that the only reason the UK had not moved to an 80mph speed limit on motorways was due to social acceptability as well as condemning classic cars in a recent interview with the Telegraph.
The interview, released yesterday, showed overwhelming support from Mr O’Sullivan for higher speed limits on parts of the motorway network, especially in the move towards smart motorways and more autonomous motorways. He also showed a move towards restricting the roads that classic cars could go on in the future, as they pose a “hazard” to more autonomous vehicles that are not able to communicate with them.
Not a new plan
Back in 2011, Philip Hammond, who was Transport Secretary at the time, created a plan to increase the motorway speed limit to 80mph but lack of backing from the Coalition Government at the time meant that plans were shelved in June 2013.
Back then, the variety of Transport Ministers meant that mixed messaging was sent out to motorists. Some ministers, such as former Roads Minister Mike Penning who promised to set up trials of the 80mph limit. Later Patrick McLoughlin said the plans were “not a priority” while a source close to the ministry said it was more over safety concerns than anything else.
Alienating female drivers
At the time, the move pushed down by Downing Street as they felt it could ‘alienate female drivers.’ A survey conducted in 2013 by the AA showed that 41% of women thought that the idea wouldn’t work while 73% of men supported the change.
However, five years down the line it is highly likely that this will have changed with the increasing number of women driving, an estimated rise of 700,000 since 2013, and more and more confidence from women drivers.
Roll-out
As it currently stands, the scheme would have to be tested against a strict set of security measures. Raising the speed limit means deadlier crashes, and poses a much higher risk. However, surely some of this comes down to driver skill, as referenced by Mr O’Sullivan below.
Mr O’Sullivan speaking on the issue of safety in the interview said: “Dependant on driver skill which is a different issue, there are parts of the network that could probably be [updgraded to 80mph]. We have not done a formal safety analysis but there are parts of the network that subject to a safety analysis could probably operate at 80 miles an hour.”
One other thing noted by Mr O’Sullivan was the social norm of driving at 70mph and changing the social attitude towards driving at a higher speed. This is thought to be the harder aspect of moving to a 70mph motorway, rather than any technical parts. Mr O’Sullivan said on this matter “I think there is a technical argument about speed and safety of vehicles etc but I think 70 miles per hour is so socially embedded in this country that I think it is probably not going to change, in fact, it’s almost certainly not going to change. I think that has more to do with public opinion and social views than it has with the technology of vehicles.”
Classic car condemnation
Along with statements about upgrading speed, he also revealed perhaps what could be come the future of motorway driving, fully autonomous with very little human engagement. The plan to remove classic cars from motorways initially but eventually all non-autonomous vehicles seems to be perhaps one of the most contentious points of the interview.
In a world that is fully reliant on vehicles, could it possibly be that in thirty years we would no longer be allowed to physically drive on a motorway but instead let a vehicle do the work for us?
This shocking idea shows the ideal way the government intends to send this country. Only on Tuesday did the government announce £100 million Research and Development funds for zero emissions development, along with other massive industry heads contributing millions. There are also plans to send a driverless vehicle on the roads by 2021, a mere three years ahead.
Mr O’Sullivan backed his point on removing classic cars by saying “Do you know what? Classic cars are not a lot of fun on a motorway if you have ever driven one.” Due to the lower speeds and the lack of technology in the car, in thirty years or so, it would be considered unsafe to have cars that cannot communicate with every other vehicle on the road, and while they may not be allowed on motorways in the not too distant future, there are no plans to ban them altogether, as “I [Mr O’Sullivan] think that classic cars are something people will continue to enjoy for many years to come. I can’t see a problem with continuing to operate classic cars.”
Do you think upping the speed limit will be good for the UK? Should classic cars be allowed on motorways? Let us know below
Mr O Sullivan seems to give out conflicting messages. One one hand he thinks an 80 mph limit is going to happen but in the other he feels that 70 mph is socially acceptable and therefore not likely to change. The idea of removing classic cars from motorways will incense many classic car drivers (which he seems to suppor as well). Why does he think that autonomous vehicles won’t be able to communicate with classic cars? Any autonomous vehicle should be capable of recognising any hazard on the road ahead. What if it was a bale of hay that had dropped off a lorry? Bales of hay can’t communicate with cars so will an autonomous vehicle just ignore it and smash into it? Let’s get a better understanding here please?
Developments under 5G will allow vehicles to communicate with each other . This will enable technology to eradicate such things as tailgating, pulling out or cutting in in front of another vehicle. Basically it will reduce the number of poor and dangerous decisions made by arrogant and ignorant drivers to virtually nil. By design it should also enable better use of the lanes in a motorway and reduce lane hogging to zero. Hallelujah!
Inter vehicle communications are not to be confused with an autonomous vehicles ability to spot a hazard such as a bale of hay or other object that has fallen of s vehicle.
The reality is on open roads a very large part of society drives in excess of 70mph on motorways. It is common knowledge that police enforce at 79mph and despite all the waffle that is not going to change soon because police would not have the resources to enforce at 71mph. Add to that many HADECS3 cameras on the motorways are actually set to enforce at 100mph if the gantry signs are blank to showing national speed limit.
Motorways ,with all the high performance cars on the road 70 mph is very slow ,yes I do stick to the rules I have to its my job,but when I see tailgating at speed ,boy racers ,lane hugging at slow speed ,you can also cause accidents by going to slow in certain lanes,is it the influx of foreign drivers who cannot speak English so can they read English that don’t know what there doing ?(Not All )
Dim British drivers are more common than dim foreigners. Road signs are mainly pictures and not in English in any case.
Just make Advanced Driver training compulsory, within, say 2 years of passing your test. With regular retest, re-evaluation, this could be part or fully funded by the government. There are so many drivers unaware of what’s going on around them, advanced training would help that (some drivers more than others). I can’t see this wouldn’t make the roads safer. Speed alone is not the issue,. Cars now have traction control and ABS on most cars now, and tyre and brake compounds are far better than they were 20 years ago, on every car.
Educate the drivers, can’t believe it’s not in force already?
Why Government Funded at all Keith? Tax payers should not have to fork out for such stuff.
Maybe because motorist raise £36bn extra in VED and fuel duties alone? Only ~£4bn of that being spent on transportation… so why not to fund something which would actually improve safety. In fact I think £36bn should be ringfenced only for road maintenance and improvements.. and general “tax payers” should not get a single penny of it directly.
I propose there is no speed limit on motorways just as it used to be. Lower speed limits were only introduced at a time of fuel shortages – nothing to do with safety.
I recall the overall 70 limit came in in around 1965 – Barbara Castle then Minister of Transport. This was for safety concerns…as it was painted then. Mind you many of the standard family cars then struggled to hold 60!
Around 1973/4. (Open to correction) at time of Yom Kippur war after which oil prices jacked up did we have limits on other roads dropped to 50 or 60. This was for fuel saving reasons.
It was reduced for a while to 60 on dual carriageways as I recall.
This is not true. see:
https://www.historyhit.com/1965-introduction-of-70mph-speed-limit-in-uk/
When the first motorways were built, starting with the Preston Bypass (later part of the M6) in December 1958, they were unrestricted. May I suggest you read your own link?
Patrick Moore, well done you made yourself look like a real dunce. The linked article describes why the speed limit was introduced and it does not match Murray Snudge’s claims that it was because of fuel shortages and nothing to do with safety. May I suggest you read the link? LOL
A good article, but recognising the increase in the number of safety features on cars since 1965 designed not only to protect inhabitants but often to help control in poor conditions, it is worth a review.
Additionally many of the motorways in the UK were designed in the 1970s with a view to the speed limits increasing as cars became more capable, and the majority were designed for 100mph+ like the autobhan in Germany (reference – my father was a highways engineer through the 60s-80s and designed a several UK motorways). Maybe you have experienced getting stuck in traffic or driving too slowly on a high camber bend? – its not comfortable…
That site certainly would not meet the standard as an authoritative reference, like wikipedia, universities would laugh at you .
The four month trial was extended and eventually we were told that it would be too dangerous to revert back to unrestricted and so the 70 restriction was imposed on us permanently.
I have just driven back from a three week holiday to Austria, the German Autobahns have, by and large, no speed limits and I witnessed continuous incredibly appalling driving behaviour with constant tailgating and flashing of headlights, overtaking on the inside. These Germans take their frustrations out on their cars and with tragic consequences. In one journey I saw three pile-ups with the tailback of queued traffic on the opposite carriageway! Years ago I would have agreed with you Murray, but would suggest if you haven’t driven on a German Autobahn to go try it.
Sorry Mike, not sure I agree with that. Like you, I have recently driven back from Austria, my outbound route taking me up to Berlin and then south. In the best part of a thousand miles of German autobahns I can only say I was impressed with the standard of driving. Sure, I saw a couple of accidents, but you’d be very lucky to drive half as many miles in this country and not see the same.
I sat at 70-80mph most of the time and estimate that I was overtaken by possibly half the cars on the road, some of them going well into 3 figure speeds, but I didn’t see much in the way of headlights being flashed and I don’t recall seeing a single case of undertaking.
German lane discipline seems far better than our own, they expect faster cars so they move over promptly and what did impress me, as an aside, when we got caught in a tailback, all drivers, and I do mean all, pulled over to hug the central reservation or pulled over to straddle the white line of the hard shoulder leaving a wide path between the rows of traffic so that emergency vehicles could pass through the hold up unhindered.
Maybe I was lucky, maybe you were unlucky, but based on my experience I would far rather drive on an unrestricted German autobahn full of drivers who know what to expect and how to drive than a British motorway seemingly populated by drivers who are half asleep and unconcerned with anything but their own little world.
Personally, I would fully support an increase in the speed limit combined with a much more visible police presence to deal with those idiots who shouldn’t be allowed behind the wheel in the first place.
…… and of course flashing of headlights in Europe (and many other countries) simply means have you seen me? Look out, I’m coming through.
I have driven many times over the years on German Autobahns & they are safe roads. My impression is that there are many fewer stretches of autobahn without a speed limit, than was the case in the past.
How can you say that Autobahns are safe when the fatality rate is about 4 times that of the UK motorways! The population is only a third more. Might be why a reluctance exists on raising the limit and of course the risk!
Very surprised you didn’t like the German autobahn. Personally I’ve never had a problem with them. Maybe you can’t adapt to their way of driving. Stick to the A roads it’s obviously where you should be driving.
It should be always remembered that 70mph is the speed LIMIT not the TARGET speed. If circumstances both within the vehicle (eg driver fatigue) and without the vehicle (eg heavy spray) dictate it might be impossible to travel any faster than a ‘classic’ car anyway. I have travelled in excess of 80mph on motorways and dual carriageways when circumstances have allowed – very light traffic, good visibility, dry road surface, vehicle in tiptop condition and driver fully alert. I don’t believe in doing that, I have posed as much menace as the salesman/van driver weaving from lane to lane at speed in rush hour traffic.
Driving at 77mph on a clear day, almost zero traffic, 3 lane motorway, I got “zapped” by a mobile speed camera hidden on a bridge over the motorway! I received a fine and 3 points (first offence in more than 10 years). Where’s the sense in that?
ridiculous!……
Evowing: Are you advocating crime without punishment?
You do agree the speed limit is 70, but don’t agree that breaking that limit should incur any penalty? In your world nobody would have to take notice of any speed limits, 80mph in a school zone as long as it’s dry and visibility is good eh?
Like someone else has said in reply to one of your posts, I think you infer more than was implied. To exceed the speed limit in the circumstances suggested by Evowing is hardly going to cause risk to life or limb; motorway, light traffic, dry, good visibility and 10% over the speed limit, so to be picked up by a mobile camera van is at best unfortunate. I imagine I am far from alone in saying that I take a relaxed attitude to speed limits in similar circumstances and I shall continue to do so. Have you ever been on an advanced driver course? Some of the police instructors and observers take a very soft approach to ‘making progress’ when circumstances allow.
I would further point out that such stringent application of the law such as we have seen and heard simply undermines respect for that law. For another example I offer a stretch of road very near to me now; An arrow straight section of an A road thanks to the original roman road builders, minimum half a mile visibility, no houses, no turnings, no field entrances, it always used to be national speed limit but someone has seen fit to reduce it to 40 mph. I haven’t conducted a study but as user of that piece of road most days I would say with some confidence that the majority of motorists passing by see it as something to be ignored.
If I were to be caught as Evowing was, I would try to view it in a philosophical manner and that it was simply ‘my turn’ rather than being justified. How can I be so ‘arrogant’? Really very easily because whilst I may have a casual attitude towards speed you will never find me exceeding the speed limit in towns or villages, past schools, hospitals or shops etc because there are far too many potential hazards.
Put all the speed cameras you like in those locations and I will support you fully, but if anyone has the time and the resources to run a mobile speed camera and chooses to deploy it on a motorway bridge rather than outside my children’s, or your children’s school then I have no respect for them at all.
Another liar. Hidden on a bridge, clearly your blind as well. Might be time for a visit to specsavers
Yawn. You don’t happen to run a speed awareness course do you? I wondered how long it would take the holier than thou brigade to jump on this subject. Stop trying to preach to people, they don’t like it, that’s why churches are empty. You’ll never get people to stop speeding, and particularly on motorways because the speed limit is artificially low. Speed doesn’t kill, drivers using inappropriate speed can, it’s not the same thing.
Jeff I think you misread Evowing…..he was saying he was safe in those conditions
I was replying to the original post actually, I think Evowing got his in whilst I was still writing my. I sympathise with him, the same thing happened to me!
Jeff: What do you mean ‘You’ll never get people to stop speeding’? I guess if you mean the people that continue driving after getting banned, but most people wouid stop at that point.
Try and speed on the M1 going north from London and see how many tickets you get in a few minutes. Sure you can speed between the cameras and then break every time you get near a tower, but who is really winning in that situation since you have to keep that up for over an hour before you will get to an unregulated section and they are rapidly filling those gaps with more towers. I would say there are definitely ways of stopping people speeding and the level of speed regulation is only going to be increasing in the future
So by extension of your argument are you saying there are no people who speed at the moment? Of course individuals may stop speeding due to fines/points/bans, I was speaking generally which any reasonable person would have realised. I have had a number of speeding tickets and points over the years, but I don’t claim to stick to the posted speed limit all of the time, mainly because I think it’s safer to concentrate on the road rather than constantly gawping at my speedometer in case there’s a civil servant with a camera around the next bend and thus missing that child that just stepped out from behind a parked car; but at least if I hit the child I could say I was sticking to the speed limit. Also I am not suggesting that speeding will get you anywhere any quicker or that speeding between cameras will achieve this, I think you’ve inferred more from my post than was intended. I, like many people object to the holier than thou, speed pedants constantly telling us that speed kills or is in and of itself dangerous. People are dangerous, people going too fast in the wrong place/wrong conditions are dangerous.
Good idea with modern vehicles being much more safety minded. However cannot understand why vehicles over a certain age do not require aan MOT on the assumption being better looked after, false assumption. Autominous vehicles will need improve far more before trusted. What will happen should another accident like happened not long ago will those advocating them stand up and be counted. Lets get higher speeds sooner rather than later. Driving standards however hold this back. The test should bain three parts, theory, driving except M roads then Motorways all being tested. The authorities forget a 3 point turn is apart of driving not how to set a satnav.
Classic cars are much better maintained than present day vehicles for example many require suspension joints to be greased every 500 miles, which means that a mechanic will be having a good look around under the vehicle, modern cars do not have grease nipples. Many of todays cars have an info-tainment system which drivers are encouraged to play with rather than looking where they are going
A very high percentage of 40+ year old classic cars were presenting in very well maintained condition and passing the test with no advisories, so in effect, they were testing something that didn’t need testing. Many only do a few hundred miles a year whereas a modern car can easily be doing 50,000.
Also, many aspects of the modern MOT test do not apply to 40 odd year old vehicles. i.e. Try testing the seat belts in my 1963 Land Rover.
Lancashire Lad. Same year landy here also . bought it when it was 9 years old and still use it for local run about .It’s just a big boys meccano set on wheels. all repairable or replaceable parts that will give you a lifetime of service if you want it to .
Keith you hit the nail on the head, driver education is the answer also ensuring responsibility for any collision is clearly laid at the feet of those involved. Roads are not dangerous, speed does not kill it’s drivers who kill and cause destruction.
I agree. Roads are not dangerous, and neither is speed, necessarily. There are other causes, of course, but I believe the greatest cause of accidents on the roads is impatience – in its may forms (speeding, undertaking, jumping the lights, tailgating, you name it).
It is not a offence to undertake if your lane is clear,I regular travel to the midlands from London and like many people I see middle and o/s lanes hugged that makes the near side empty and believe it or not quicker and that’s not at speed.
I am pretty sure it is illegal to ‘undertake’.
Unless the vehicle on your right is turning right or traffic is moving in lanes. Ie, A traffic jam.
Ok this can be an offence and very irresponsible when you under take someone could be about to come over and you are in a blind spot, here is a quote ‘Undertaking’ is the practice of overtaking a slower moving vehicle on its left-hand side (kerb side). While it’s not strictly illegal to undertake on a motorway or dual carriageway in the UK, it can be extremely dangerous, and punishable if deemed to be careless driving.19 Jun 2018
You may “Undertake” as long as you do not change lanes immeadiatly and continue to do so as this is considered to be dangerous driving
Research definitely evidences the higher the speed the increased risk. I think our motorways are far too busy for 80mph. Far too many nutters driving in excess of 70 and far too much leniency by the law. Too many lawyers intervening in due process.
Although motorways are pretty empty in the middle of the night.
Sadly that’s when most fatalities happen on our motorways
They should try and educate foreign drivers before there let loose on our roads ,I see many people who can just about see over the dashboard driving and some of the manuvers are incredible and where they do them ,very dangerous
Typical politicians nonsense – not one of them fit for government
The real hazards are the drivers doing 50-60 mph in the middle lane totally unaware of what’s going on around them – speed doesn’t kill – incompetence does, police the motorways properly and ditch the cameras
Autonomous vehicles will no doubt render incompetent human drivers to the history books which will be fantastic, though I do still enjoy having that control of my vehicle I fear that will be a sad loss.
Sadly it is going to be some time before autonomous vehicles are going to be competent enough to anything more than driving aids.
THE REASON THAT DRIVERS ‘HOG’ THE MIDDLE LANE IS DUE TO THE STATE OF THE INSIDE LANE BEING RIPPED UP BY HGVs.
What about when there is nothing in the lane 1 and they are STILL in the middle lane?!?
The point being made is the heavy goods vehicles make tracks in the tarmac on the left lane of the motorway and drivers of cars that are lighter can find these tracks challenging especially in the wet.
Truck argument is a bit of a red herring and nothing to do with speed, when you consider trucks and other commercial vehicles centre lane hot as well, not just cars.
Drivers hog the middle lane because they can’t be bothered to move over, even if the next car is 3 miles away (Not very often), they are total selfish and incompetent but if they have a blue light on their tail, they can do it properly, butter wouldn’t melt in their mouths and them doing 60, 70 or even 80 is still no excuse for hogging the middle lane.
No, it’s because many drivers are too idle to return to an empty lane 1 because they can see an hgv in lane 1 as close as a mile ahead.
To be frank, that is not a distance many drivers will look ahead, that’s why they travel close together, to avoid eye strain!
IanC, Hope you apply the same conclusion to those who sit in the outside lane, below, at, or above the speed limit who consider those in the inner lanes have no right to be on motorways as the are travelling below or at 70mph. Like yourself maybe??
Oh don’t you hate law abiding motorists.
Speed doesn’t kill – impact does!
Retaining the 70mph limit is the least we can do to avoid increase in pollution and carbon emission due to transport – which is already at crisis level. None motorway speed limits should be reduced to 50mph for safety and pollution reasons.
You don’t live on a road with speed humps do you
They are called potholes
Just a moment though. The stats quoted from the 2013 survey are not comparable. If 41% of women don’t like the idea, that suggests (unless there were a lot of “don’t knows”) 59% supported the change. That’s the figure that should be used to compare with the 73% of men who supported the change. Quoting the percentages of two opposing viewpoints is bad science and misrepresents the results. 59% and 73% are both majorities, so what’s the problem? They also need to take into account whether there’s any difference between the numbers of men and women using the motorways that are likely to get the increased limit. If it happens to be mostly men, then they should have the greater say in what speed they’re going to be driving on those roads.
People texting, reading their social media and email should also drive slower 😬
Test all drivers every 5 years, this should remove at least 10% of them per year, due to their inability to drive a car safely.
NO THEY SHOULDN’T BE DRIVING AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
The suggestion is that classic cars (however that is defined) may not be allowed on Motorways. Nothing has been said about Lorries (and other commercial vehicles) or motorbikes. Unless these are are also to become autonomous (and I haven’t seen anything to suggest that there is) they would also be banned from Motorways and we will return to the bad old days with villages being congested with classic cars, commercial vehicles and motorbikes. Little thought has been given to the consequences of such a ban.
Autonomous lorries are already being tested in at least China and Europe and will be the first autonomous vehicles to be seen on motorways in the near future. https://youtu.be/lx9EFJ6qgZc
One of the tests is to have the HGVs in convoy in the slow lane 5 metres apart – so is this land hogging and how do the rest of us see motorway signs and how do we get off the motorway – sorry! we are all in convoys of automatic vehicles 5 metres apart hogging the middle lane.
Autonomous vehicles are not allowed to carry passengers in the air.
Personally I would not get aboard one that exceeded 10 mph.
Murphy’s Law says IF ANYTHING CAN GO WRONG ON ANY SYSTEM IT WILL
What is this obsession with driverless cars?If you don’t want to drive get a taxi or get on a train, technology is just as fallible as are we humans.
Big Brother – when every journey is made by computer, every journey you make will be recorded in detail on a database.
I think 70 is plenty, many drivers do 80mph already and some do 90 and a few 100, it’s a case of human nature, give them an inch and they will take a mile, many drivers who do 80mph now will do 90mph, and those doing 100 now will do 110, those upper speeds are too fast for many to react in an emergency situation, keep it as it is for the moment at least, perhaps increasing as motorways and cars become more automonous and safer, but I don’t think they or drivers are there as yet, I may be wrong but I think the police at the moment keep a bit of a blind eye to those doing say about 78mph and it’s a speed that the driver can come down from easily and quickly even by taking the foot off the pedal, in an ideal world if drivers would keep to around the possible 80 mph limit then ok but many won’t and that’s where accidents would occur, many because of drivers going too fast because they have been given that ”inch”.
The speed limit has unofficially been 80 for many years and I’ve heard that from one of the police chiefs almost 20 years ago and I’ve even had motorway police tell me “keep it under 90 and you will be OK”. But cameras are not so forgiving and don’t even think about it on variable speed limit sections. The problem with driving fast, is that the standard of driving of some other people is truly shocking. They pull out without looking, they hog the fast lane, not pulling back in after overtaking. They don’t pay attention to the road ahead (you have to look WAY past the car in front of you). People even have the attitude that they are doing an indicated 70MPH and won’t let anyone past them, oblivious to the fact that their speedometer is over-reading by at least 7 MPH at that speed and they are only actually doing 63! Whereas premium cars will often have satnav calibrated speedometers accurate to within 1MPH. Most drivers also have absolutely no clue how a supercar can perform and react or how a driver with experience can control it. And then there’s the envy factor: “how dare he own a Ferrari. He can effing wait”. You overtake someone who wants to do 40 in a 60 speed limit and you get rude hand signals. What’s the matter with these people? I don’t give THEM rude gestures for driving 20 MPH below the speed limit! When I learned to drive a long time ago I was taught to try to keep up to the speed limit where it was safe to do so. This is also mentioned in the highway code.
There has never been a better time to look at increasing motorway speed limits. By its own admission, Government tells us that motorways are by far the safest roads in the Country, despite the fact that the vast majority of cars and vans regularly drive along them, well in excess of 80mph.
With the dawning of smart motorways, controlled by speed cameras, there is absolutely no reason why speed limits couldn’t be set to 80mph, when conditions allow. Variable speed limits could be used on all motorways, strictly enforced by cameras.
There is no need to increase the speed limit – maybe a need for some sense when enforcing speed limits. Speed cameras that send out tickets to drivers who drift one or two miles an hour over the limit are not helpful and do nothing to promote road safety. In fact if we use the old fashioned 10% + 2 then tickets wouldn’t be issued unless you were doing more than 79mph anyway
The government would lose too much money if it were to be increased to 80mph, think about all of the fines that wont happen for drivers going between 70-80mph.
But then there’s the extra fuel duty & VAT collected on the increased fuel usage by those travelling faster.
Will it make any difference? On the two motorways I drive regularly, the M40 and M1, most BMWs, Audis and Mercedes are already doing well over 80 and many over 100, screaming up to the car in front, then tailgating until they get out of the way. And never a police car in sight (seen one in the last 14 months, driving this route on average twice a month over the last 15 months) to enforce the existing rules, including stopping the middle-class hogs. Why change the rules when they’re not enforced?
The problem is nothing to do with culture, but drivers being an ideal cash cow to extract fines from. Set an unreasonably low limit and just count profit.. that is why we still have 70 .. not women drivers, not culture, not safety, not classic cars, but purely to extra revenue. Average speed on free-flowing motorways are now 82MPH (nevermind the limit of 70). That indicates 2 things (at least 2) for me.. 1. Is that “70MPH culture” is not a thing… 2. We need to be speaking about speeds certainly higher then 80MPH… probably 90MPH because if not for speed limits it is clear there is the desire to go faster. Most of Europe drives at 90… it is only the UK stuck in the 60’s… I understand that 90+ is not really possible due to the lack of training and discipline on British roads, but 90 would be a good start.
My “Classic” is more than capable of 120 mph. Higher speed in the right conditions is as safe as too slow in the wrong conditions. Bunching up due to speed limitations is very dangerous….I prefer to go faster, in the correct conditions, to get past such hazards. More frequent having to slow down then accelerate back up to speed uses more fuel and pollutes more than moving at a steady speed. Concentration should be on those that drive badly (middle lane hogging, tailgating, etc so they can be ‘re -educated’ or removed from the roads; not on those “”speeding “” in perfectly safe conditions. Technology exists to shut down phones etc that distract drivers while on the move…changing radio stations, phones etc could be prohibited while on the move.
The biggest serious consideration and expenditure should be focused on Rail freight to get a majority of lorries off the road…we used to have a good working system. That would make a huge contribution to slower traffic being able to stay in the inside lane instead of hogging overtaking lane 2 or 3.
Why do some people approach a lorry at 69 mph pull out to pass and as they do so slow down to 65 or less?? This very quickly causes a big tailback and often frustration.
If you look into it you will probably be surprised at how many billions of tonnes are being moved by rail. (About 40% of all freight movements)
Let’s aim for 80%, max distance 100 miles, and include 100% of non British drivers unless they have passed the British HGV driving test – Yes we will need to build more railways to do this (in addition to HS2), but then we listened to the ‘modernisers’ (Beeching et al) and pulled them up.
These last lot are the real middle and 3rd land hoggers!!. If you want to go faster then pull over a lane to the right and go faster – if it is full of traffic then traffic is going TOO FAST already. If traffic is bunching at a speed reduction then it is going too close to the one in front and TOO FAST but then some people think they own the road and try and prove it by tailgating and cutting into other people’s safe space causing them to brake or be in a more dangerous place. Be responsible – keep to the speed limits and remember that many accidents are a result of changing lanes unnecessarily.
I drive a 44 tonne truck and travel 2000 miles a week all over the uk. I truly believe this debate to be a waste of time. I have seen driving standards deteriorate over the last few years from improper use if any of indicators to not moving on a green light as texting takes priority, this is offset I guess by not stopping at the following red. People on motorways are in my opinion driving slower due to fuel costs, on the m42 I regularly see the smart signs read 60 and the drivers travel at 54, I know this as I travel at 56 and have to overtake such people all day everyday, my wife travels along and cannot understanding why I seem to be going quicker than cars limited by law to 70?
You will always get those that flaunt the laws and travel in excess of the set speed which changes with such annoying regularity due to “smart “ motorways.
The majority of drivers seem to have chosen to view the speeds from several miles an hour slower just to be safe which is fine but above 56 would mean I don’t have to constantly drive past them to meet a deadline. In the end those who speed will continue to do so but I truly believe it to be pointless raising the the limit to 80mph as very few people achieve 70 even if traffic flow and weather conditions allow.
The car drivers think they are doing 59 or 60 as many car speedometers are somewhat optimistic whereas truck speedos have to be more accurate due to tacho regs. Try setting your CC to 54, it really doesn’t make much difference, gives a more relaxing drive, saves fuel and leaves that bit in reserve when struggling to pass another truck.
As for driver skill increasing, what a laugh! Most have no lane discipline and cross lanes, without signalling, at the last minute regardless of clear signposting. The attitude of many drivers seems to be that as there are few if any, traffic Police about, they can get away with anything! Speed doesn’t kill? Watch the difference between a car crashing at 30 mph and a car crashing at 80 mph! Speed is definitely a factor!
As for driverless cars! You cannot reboot a car travelling at 80 mph because it’s locked itself like you can your mobile phone/tablet/laptop!
Here we go again about speed! Do you seriously think that anyone is suggesting an accident at 80mph is going to be equivalent to an accident at 30mph? You need to get a grip if you do! If you were travelling at 80mph in 30mph zone then the consequences could be catastrophic in the event of an accident given that you are most likely in a built up, densely populated area, however the subject here is increasing the motorway speed limit. Travelling at 80mph on a relatively quiet, free-flowing motorway in a modern vehicle is perfectly sensible and safe, the only people who don’t agree are speed pedants, the type of people who wreak havoc and frustration behind them when doing for example 30 in a 50 zone, and spend most of their time looking at their speedometer instead of observing the road. I’d much rather be driving behind someone who is driving roughly close to or slightly above the marked speed limit than someone exactly on or just under as they are much more likely to be observing what’s going on around them, and are thus less likely to cause or be involved in an accident.
I do however agree with you on the point of the driving ability of some people, and in fact for these people who are reckless the speed limit is a moot point anyway. Having said that people who drive too slowly and don’t keep up with the marked speed limit – where conditions allow – are just as dangerous due to the negative effect they have on the traffic queuing up behind them.
It works both ways. One car doing 30 one doing 60. They collide = lots of damage. One car doing 80 one doing 81 very little damage. It’s the difference in speed that causes the damage not the speed itself (assuming the driver has the experience to control the car). Two cars in the same lane with such differing speeds is the problem..
Exactly – speed is a factor, not the answer!!!!!!
I would welcome the 80 limit as a safety net for when I unwittingly go over the present 70 limit which is fast enough for me (usually 60 – 65) or when accelerating to overtake in a tight situation. As for other ‘idiots’ on the road at that speed I just have to take my chance as at present: they do it anyway.
Classic cars have paid their dues and have every right to use all the roads like the rest of us. I like the ‘bale of hay’ analogy. If a smart car cannot recognize an inanimate object then it is no good.
And what happens when whatever powers the technology fails? We have all seen silly messages on gantries etc because something technical went wrong somewhere. Is there a foolproof failsafe?
I don’t feel that anything will change as when was the last time you were on a motorway & seeing everyone driving at the current legal limit of 70MPH? In Cornwall at any rate if you drive at that speed on the motorway or dual carriageway you will be driving alone as the majority, including ‘white van men’, will be flying past you doing about 80MPH. In the few times I go ‘upcountry’ everyone is already driving at about 80MPH & it’s an absolute madhouse. I understand that German ‘autobahns’ are derestricted & always have been so it would be interesting to compare their accident rate with ours.
Which motorway in Cornwall are you referring to? Easy to find the info about crash rates in Germany, look on the Internet, it’s a new thing like sticking to rules, except it’s undiscovered by many!
As someone who lives in Cornwall I was also wondering this since there are none 😉
Yes we should have a higher speed limit on motorways. 70mph is unneccessarily and unduly restrictive and is completely outdated. It takes no account of the enourmous increase and improvement in vehicle safety and capability and efficiency and reliability since the introduction of the 70mph limit in the 1960s. (There was no speed limit on the new motorways at all before that or indeed any road that was signed with the circular while sign with the black diagonal bar. (National Speed limit applies)) Upping the limit would probably not have very much effect on overall traffic speed as large commercial vehicles are restricted to 60mph and many car drivers don’t even reach the present 70mph limit and the amount of traffic and frequent congestion mean that its often not even possible reach 70mph. The higher limit(s) should only be for cars and small car-derived vans and possibly solo motorcycles. The National Speed limits should be 90mph on motorways, 80mph on dual carriageways (providing there is a central reserve) and 70mph on other roads. In all cases, of course, portions of any road can be limited lower where they are unsuitable for the National Speed limits.
Should Classic cars be allowed on Motorways…? Of course, provided they are properly maintained and road legal. I disagree with the new legislation which allows a 40 year rolling exemtion from MOT testing. ANY vehicle on the Public Highway should be subjected to annual testing by experienced examiners. Also, how is anyone allowed to hold a Driving Licence without having first to pass a basic doctors’ medical examination and opticians’ eye test…!? Medicals should have to be repeated every five years and Eye tests should have to be repeated every two years to maintain a Licence to drive. Those reaching 60 years old should have to pass a basic driving test every five years and on reaching 80 years this should have to be an annual test. Autonomous driving vehicles?… A ridiculous idea unless they are on dedicated roads. We have precious little space in much of the UK for new roads. I think it will be very many years before these vehicles have the capability and safety levels to be used on the Public Highway and even then they will have to have a driver at the wheel to monitor and take over if any of the automatic systems fail. So, this begs the question….What is the point of them at all!
It’s about time, most people are driving at 80mph or more anyway so why not increase it or better still do what they do in Germany no speed limit on motorways.
Having driven many thousands of miles (at very high speeds) on de-restricted German motorways I would dearly like to agree with you, but sadly, the great majority of UK drivers simply could not cope with the approach speeds of cars travelling at twice the current UK speed limit. Lane discipline exercised in Germany is of a vastly higher order than here – the Germans have also been brought up on de-restricted motorways, here it would sadly cause an enormous increase in the death toll on motorways.
A better solution – as the technology exists – would be to have variable speed limits according to traffic flow and weather conditions. Where 100mph on the M25 might be entirely safe at 6.00am on a clear, summer, Sunday morning, clearly it isn’t at 5.00pm on a Friday, or on a foggy, yet almost empty, motorway.
So Classic Cars will not be allowed on motorways because they cannot be autonomous but they will be allowed on urban roads but will not, I understand, be subjected to emissions testing when most currently pollute the urban environment on the scale of about 10,000 to 1 compared with modern vehicles – even Volkswagens!
Where does the 10 000 to 1 figure come from? I don’t do more than 1 500miles/yr in my classic. Do you think that that is a major source of pollution in my local area?
Many poeople stray over the 70mph limit on motorways, raising the limit would mean thay are not criminalised for driving at what is still a safe speed. It is rediculous to suggest that driving AT 70 is somehow a social norm both because we already stray above this limit & legally it is a maximum, so in fact we should be driving below in order to comply with the law. Other countries can cope with 130km limits, if it had caused problems France would have changed it back to 120kph.
Rasing the speed limit won’t help, how many journeys does anyone do sat at 70mph for mile upon mile making good progress? Very rarely especially in the south east. The reason for this is driver discipline. Just drive the M25. Most British motorists in cars whom have never driven in Europe can’t fathom 4 lanes, so choose one and stick to it for mile upon mile, causing congestion. The same goes for foreign lorry drivers, drive where they want and do what they want, forcing everyone else to have to fight the traffic.
Put this effort into teaching people how to drive properly and policing it using the highway wombles, and then lower the speed limit to 60 or 65. Watch, there will be no change to journey times, just less stress whilst driving, less congestion and a much smoother and enjoyable journey.
Remember they came up with a new rule about middle lane drivers and undertaking, made no difference as there are no police on the motorways!
Middle lane rule has always existed, it was the penalty that changed!
Like most driving, you can teach endless skills but only the driver can apply them if they are self-disciplined enough to apply them!
4 lane motorway? Surely left lane for next slip road, next two lanes for HGVs like a normal motorway, 4th lane for cars, motorcycles and whoever else there is. Oh Yes – hard shoulder for blue light emergencies (is there a hard shoulder any more?)
Do I jest?
I am currently driving around eastern Europe,been through Germany and will hrad back that way the unlimited autobahns are great. I am riding a motorcycle capable of 180mph.
I wouldn’t dream of using its performance in the UK, driver competence is the issue.
The UK’s roads ate not policed, either by government choice or general incompetence on behalf of the authorities.
The sort of behaviour seen on our roads would not be tolerated, lane hogging doesn’t happen, except by British drivers, accidents when they do occur are dealt with quickly and efficiently. Drivers actually see motorcycles!
I have been abroad for 5 weeks now, done over 5,000 miles and not seen an accident
Speed limits should be advisory, with the ability to be increased and decreased as appropriate. For example a 20mph outside a school is appropriate when kids are about, but could or should be increased when not, works in Holland, why not the UK?
Lane hogging should not happen here it is illegal but lack of inforcement.
Why do you need a vehicle on the roads capable of 180?
If you drive a car how do you take to being tailgated, undertaken, filtered, sworn at, being given obscene gestures and rammed in rear by others who can’t wait another 2 mins like everyone else?
Should’ve happened years ago. Along with van speed limits being brought into line with cars as this was only put in for fuel economy in the energy crisis of the 70’s and because brakes weren’t as good. Nowadays brakes are as good if not better than cars.
Depends on what you’re carrying but yes they generally are better.
More than happy to have an 80 mph limit on appropriate stretches of motorway and maybe at variable times of the day. In parallel I’d be equally happy to see zero tolerance of anyone exceeding the limit.
The classic car argument is difficult. Some could clearly be seen as a danger to themselves and others, some could certainly hold their own and could probably have a simple comms box added to fit with the prevailing requirements.
Along with middle lane drivers, start to fine drivers who drive too close to the vehicle in front. Lorries sometimes look as if they’re attached to each other. There is no way they’d be able to stop in an emergency – they can’t even see past the lorry in front. Impatient car drivers are just as bad.
Driving too close to the vehicle in front is deadly! Along with middle lane drivers, people should be fined for tailgating.
This is yet another extremely poorly written and even more poorly researched articles that PetrolPrices passes off as ‘interesting’ or ‘relevant’ to their readership.
I will no longer be wasting my time reading their articles.
Utter madness to increase speed limit. There are already far too many “Boy Racers” who have a total diregard for existing limits without making them “more legitimate”. Speed kills and more speed will probably kill more.
We need to stop being in such a hurry to get to our destination. Give yourself more time and less rush.
Do we still have to say this — speed never killed, increasing or decreasing speed kills — let’s get this mantra out of the way forever. A child outside a school can be killed at 5 mph if they run in front of an HGV doing 5 mph – people in planes do not die at the speed of sound.
A rise to 80 mph is long overdue, but the comment about banning classic cars in the future is a total farce. Talk about the nanny state.
yes classic cars should be allowed on the motorways. if the government wants autonomous cars they have to be developed to account for this or theyre not ‘autonomous’ and given that ANY computer system can be ‘hacked’ will these autonomous cars REALLY be safer? i doubt it. accidents will be fewer, possibly, but MUCH bigger and more serious. will we also be able to scrap the driving license with autonomous vehicles? go for a few beers at a (now rare) country pub and not have to worry about getting home? what about all the haulage, bus and taxi drivers, delivery drivers etc who will be unemployed? have the government actually thought about ANYTHING fully? if the ‘autonomous’ cars cant ‘think’ for themselves, theyre not autonomous, theyre automated (different) because theyre following programmed parameters. autonomous means it could cover all bases by itself
Evowing – what speed was your speedo showing for you to be zapped at 77mph. Cars over read speed by some margin at 70+mph, so your speedo must have been showing 80+. Just asking this as most people seem to think that when you drive over the speed limit on you speedo, you are actually breaking the speed limit – you are not. Cameras and road traps only record your actual speed and not what’s on your speedo. I usually have a speedo reading of, say, 77mph on motorways which usually equates to around 70 in actual speed. You were unlucky to be got by the camera/trap as ACPO guidelines say 10% + 2mph meaning you should be good for up to 79mph actual speed.
I used to “tune” cars years ago by “weighting” the needles of speedos to indicate “false news” of actual speed at the higher end. Customers were so thankful of that extra 5 or 10 mph at top speed. Funny old world?
Raising the limit is just academic as the current driving on motorways is so under policed due to cuts in manpower that most traffic apart from governed vehicles regards the current limit as ‘minimum’, that is if they are not at a standstill in a jam!
German motorways are policed centrally (like a smart motorway should be) and it costs a lot of money – spend the money and then we can compare the driving skills!!!
So there’s absolutely no news then other than regurgitating some tripe from the torygraph.
Given the drive to lower CO2 emissions with bioethanol which since earlier this year constitutes 7.5% of 95 octane unleaded, I can only imagine this is rubbish due to the number of broken down slightly older cars on the hard shoulder which will mean an increase in recovery vehicles.
How many times have we heard about “plans” to increase the speed limit?
It just won’t happen.
This contention of raising the speed limit is long overdue. Britain should move into the 21st century and certainly increase it. How is it that Germany, who have no speed limits on the autobahn is relatively accident free? The cars and the motorway are similar to our network, so it does work.
All I can say is that the driving test should be tougher, so allowing only the best drivers on our roads.
Seems my classic Volvo will not be fit for the motorway in a few years.
The triangular split braking system and ton 20 top speed apparently are not to be suitable for motorways in the future because it won’t communicate with the driverless cars of the unthinking masses.
No. The problem is with how some imagine the future should be and not an advanced driver with a classic car.
Yet again, treat the symptoms and avoid the condition.
I’m for upping the speed limit on motorways to 80 mph.
His comments about classic cars are ‘interesting’, if you are driving a classic car along lane 3 of the M25 and your alternator fails, a warning light will come on, warning that you should pull over and investigate. If the same thing happens in many more modern cars (VW Golf for example) the ecu will shut the engine down….I know which situation I’d rather try to plan my way out of.
Chances are that if your car is fitted with an alternator your brakes will mean you have a problem stopping quickly enough anyway?
Why? Don’t the vast majority of cars have alternators? I have a 1949 Renault with a dynamo and it’s true to say that’s it’s braking performance isn’t quite up to modern standards, but then it’s top speed is maybe 60mph. That has nothing to do with the dynamo though and does mean that when driving I always look well ahead to to see what the traffic is doing and simply brake earlier.
It seems that a lot of drivers of more modern vehicles need to look further ahead.
Trains run on rails but still need a driver. The next step was trams that do not carry the same safety measures as trains but still need a driver, despite it only being able to go on rails. So it makes no sense to trust autonomous vehicles with even fewer safety restrictions on roads up to 80 mph. When an accident occurs, and they will, who will be responsible? The manufacturer? a software engineer?
Worse still, much of the traffic congestion relates to lorries. Privatisation has shifted commercial rail freight to the roads causing more congestion. Will they too be autonomous? And what happens when they come off the motorway? I see nothing to convince me this is a good idea. Just because you can, doesn’t mean you must.
Actually – freight was being encouraged on to the roads in British Rail (nationalised) days by restricting the number of wagons that companies were allowed to have each day or week. Result – wholesale change to road. This made it possible to close the ‘unremunerative’ lines and build houses on them so that the commuters could go by road.
Absolutely raise the speed limit to 80 mph on Motorways. Traffic would flow better …
60/70 in lane one
70/75 in lane two
75/80 in lane three
Put REMINDERS on gantry’s over lanes, or on central reservation to move back to the left after overtaking!
If classic cars can make proper progress and drive up to the speed limits then yes they can drive on Motorways.
“SMART” Motorways are not “SMART” in my opinion. There must be a hard shoulder for safety
I think increasing speed limit to 80 is good idea most car now days got new technology also important is to educate drivers how to safe driving on motorway like hogging top lane government should advertise on tv and display sign on moterway not to hog middle and top lane that will decrease the chance of a exidents.second point to ban classic car on the motorway should only be to the very old classic which can not more then 50 to 60 miles an hour myself got classic car Mercedes 450sl1977 which is perfectly good as newer cars I don’t see the point of banning cars like mine is good idea
Thsnks
In 1967, I bought a BMW powered Isetta bubble car that had been built at the old steam locomotive works near Brighton station. It would cruise on the M1motorway at just about 50 MPH. I parted company with it in 1969 very reluctantly.
If I still had it, I could use it on the M23 and M25 motorways and watch the 80 MPH brigade pass me by or smash into the back of me. Bearing in mind the only thing at the front was a forward opening door and some headlights, then you might say that was safe motoring!
Please note that it had NO nasty electronic wizardry to go wrong that driverless cars will have. No distracting radio, mobile phone, SATNAV, etc. How I pine for that car.
Blimey! Back in the mid 80s I was running a 1961 Isetta, bought for me by the then girlfriend as a Xmas present, as a daily run about. We even travelled from Plymouth up to Durham in it one Easter for a holiday. 14hrs each way, broken going up at relatives and on the way back at the Burford micro car rally.
Mine was flat out at about 54 and cruised around 45. Although allowed on M-ways I didn’t use them. The journey beacame part of the holiday and not simply an 8hr blast up the motorway to get somewhere.
Used to get around 70mpg out of it. Had some great “adventures” in it!
Also done the same journey in a 1961 Renault 4cv, a 1952 Austin A40 Somerset, an original, 1972 Fiat 500 and a 1975 Triumph Stag. Not such a big deal in the last one, but oh so good with the top down all of the way!!
Increasing to 80mph is definitely a good idea, well overdue.
Concering classic cars, No need to ban them, just set a minimum speed of 55-60 (subject to conditions of course).
I would like to know why so many drivers want to go over the posted speed limits as it now stands at 70 & there are thousands who think it is safe in there eyes to go over 80 . Rise the speed limit to 80 & these drivers will be driving @ 90 & there will be drivers who will still not be satisfied . Speed IS A KILLER & @ 70 there is mass carnage as has today happened on the M5 with grieving families who will not agree for it to be put up to 80 .
Do not the powers to be realise that at 80 the fuel consumption mpg will drop severally causing the pollution levels to rise dramatically . While these accidents happen on motorways other users of the road have to sit in there vehicles getting more frustrated by the hour , Some wanting to get home or carry on there business , Hgv drivers going over there hours , Goods awaiting delivery to feed the thousands , A guarantee many crossing there legs wanting to relieve there selves . Missing air flights , the list goes on . If drivers want to be there yesterday then they should have left last week & drive at a sensible & responsible speed .
There are many drivers that will never be happy with the speed that the law states . Speed on motorways & get away with it & they will drive over the national speed limits posted for other types of road . I when driving on a motorway have as much right to drive @ the prescribed limit especially when towing , I would love to go faster as 60 is far too slow & when overtaking slow Hgv’s I some times have to stay in the middle lane longer than I really want to owing to no space or if I get into the slow lane then I cannot rejoin the middle lane again as no one will give way , so I am forced to stay where I am for a considerable way , after all there is another lane for those going at 70 or most possibly 90 – 100 . PLEASE SLOW DOWN then we can all get there safely & on time .
Just another thought why when there is carnage on motorways why do not the Police or Highway authority’s stop vehicles at the junction back the motorway then turn the stopped vehicles on the motorway around & send them back to the previous junction where it is under control & sending them on there way this is better than sitting still for hours . But perhaps it is beyond there capability to do this .
Only 3% of accidents happen on motorways. They are the safest roads in the U.K. that said I disagree with speed limits being increased. Drivers do not stick to 70 so what speed will they drive their vehicles if the limit is higher!!
Great grammar bro… looks like you didn’t even learn to write… let alone drive! And also, there and their are different words. Use them accordingly…