A radical new transport plan is currently being outlined by the government. It could see vans banned from city centres under measures to improve air quality and reduce emissions. The Department of Transport is also looking to replace vans in city centres with micro-electric vehicles including cargo bikes, electric vans and minor vehicles.
Changing the city centre
Currently, there are said to be some 300,000 HGVs on UK roads alongside over 4,000,000 vans. Being major contributors to the air pollution, this is causing big problems in major cities. This number is ever-growing as the demand for delivery services rises in-line with the soaring popularity of online shopping.
The government’s idea is to see ‘last mile deliveries’ use low emission vehicles within city centres with the aim of reducing emissions and helping ease congestion around city centres. The changes are referenced in a new document called Last Mile and the Future of Mobility.
The paper works on principles currently being implemented by Cambridge City Council, they announced at the end of last year that certain vehicles would be banned. Oxford City Council are also set to follow suit within the next two years.
Also referenced was £12.1 million of funding for six projects working on simulation and modelling to help with the development of connected and autonomous vehicles. Transport Minister Jesse Norman said “The UK had a long and proud history of leading the transport innovation and that the new Future of Mobility Grand Challenge will continue this.”
Not only could the new scheme change how people and goods are moved around the UK, but there are also significant benefits and economic opportunities. The autonomous vehicle industry would be worth over $50 billion by 2035 experts say.
Changing the transport network
Overall, the idea is to improve the country’s transportation system to make it safer, more accessible and greener. The government foresee things like the widespread use of self-drive cars and even flying vehicles.
With the idea of self-drive cars, the government say there would be less need for parking spaces in the city centres. These could be repurposed into new urban homes to help with the growing demand for new houses, especially as people move back into the city centres.
The government has a good basis for the changes – because we are already changing how we use the transport network. For example, people are driving less and fewer workers are commuting as more people work from home or have flexible working contracts.
The aging population and the number of people returning to live in urban areas also reduces demand on the road network.
In earlier plans, the move away from fossil-fuelled powered cars and towards zero emissions has been outlined. This means by 2040, the government want all new cars and vans to be zero emission, and improvements in electric vehicle technology make this more viable.
The use of automation in vehicles also has the potential to make road travel safer. Improved sensors, better computing power within vehicles and the potential of artificial intelligence are slowly taking some of the emphasis from the driver. Experts expect fully self-driving cars to be on UK roads by 2021, improving safety, accessibility and allowing better use of urban space.
The electric van is one of the more popular ways to fulfil the growing demand for deliveries in the city without adding to the pollution problem. Currently, the electric van is dominated by Renault and Nissan who have expanded and improved their ranges in the last two years, although mostly still for smaller vans.
However, other big names are getting involved, creating large electric vans for release over the next few years including Mercedes, Renault and Volkswagen. So far, these vans can be lower in cost to run than a diesel version with fewer serviceable parts and obviously lower fuel costs.
Moreover, their virtually silent running means that there is the possibility of deliveries at times outside the regular hours as there is no engine noise to cause a nuisance. Talk of buying incentives will also catch the eye of business owners too while the ‘green’ credentials from running such vans is an ever-increasing extra benefit.
There’s no doubt that a transport revolution is underway with how we get around being forever changed, from silent vans to flying cars, the future is indeed near. It has the potential to make city centres much more pleasant places to visit and free up much-needed space for other purposes.
What do YOU think about this proposed van ban in cities? Is it practical for business and retailers? More importantly, will it make a difference to road congestion and pollution where there are still buses and HGVs on city roads? Let us know in the comments below please.
No tradesmen allowed in town?
Carry the tools on a bicycle?
Save the planet whilst expanding Heathrow and building HS2?
I charge a massive premium for any job in a city where parking & access is an issue.
I will be charging even more if any additional restrictions or charges kick in.
This is why shops are closing & people complain about high repair costs.
Can’t have it all.
Yep, everyone will live in the cities because there will be extra space to build houses and because no delivery vans are allowed in cities we will all have to travel out of town to go shopping or to go collect our online deliveries from distribution centres. Mmm, cities will sprawl ever further into the countryside.
Vans are not being banned, only hybrid, plug in hybrids ot full electric will be allowed
I see an opportunity for myself. While all of you are increasing prices, I will get myself an electric van and offer a service without the massive surcharge. Win Win for me. Cheers Gary.
But wait…. have you thought about the cost of new batteries? and they won’t be Duracell knock offs either.
Pollution is linked to one in six deaths in the UK but who cares as long as you can line your pockets right?
Where is the proof of that. ?Total rubbish.
Sounds to me you are “overcharging”
Yep, yet another clueless government initiative to appease the environmentalists who think driving a Prius is saving the planet!
Try to reduce nox and particulates in city centres is not “Trying to appease environmentallists”. It’s trying to take positive action to combat a situation that is having a significant negative impact on peoples health and as such costing the health service millions of pounds.
Yes try to reduce pollution, by nocking down trees and digging up meadows, Also where is all the extra electricity coming from to charge all these vehicles?
It will be done by hooking up rainbows to the power grid.
With unicorn poo to fuel the grids !!
please don’t forget all lightning strikes as well because we could gain some electricity from them 🤙
Most ‘Green Energy Plants -Solar and Wind’ are backed up by banks of dirty diesel generators hidden down country lanes.
also the so called green energy is no longer cost viable as the subsidies are taken away
Really? DONG (Danish Oil and Natural Gas), whose UK HQ is at Uskmouth power station, operates huge offshore wind farms and generates gigawatts of clean electricity. Their backup is indeed down a country lane, next to Newport wetlands reserve, but it’s NOT “banks of dirty diesel generators” – it’s a state of the art combined cycle gas turbine system, 832MW, that replaced a decommissioned coal-fired plant in 2010. It’s only the small players who need their own diesel farms.
This is a badly distorted fact. Renewable energy is eratic and so it needs to be stored. Grid level storage will remove the gas turbines currently being used to backup solar and wind
Google is your friend. There are plenty of sustainable ways to generate electricity now.
I work in the electric industry and we have plenty of electricity to charge cars and vehicle to grid will make it even cheaper.
Peter, good luck if you live in the city centre and need a plumber or any other tradesman who need a van to carry out their job.
It’s not about reducing pollution. Ask anyone who lives near Heathrow. They’re going to expand that. It’s about taxing more and more under the banner of green. How are people going to charge their vehicles living in high rise blocks that they don’t stop building. Tradesmen and women will charge city dwellers ever more for the pain of travelling there or not go at all. And parcels won’t be delivered to doors. You will have to go and get them from collection centres. Electric vehicles are not practical for extended hours of work. Are you starting to see the rosy picture?
it will look good when there are 100 flats in a block with 100 extention leads hanging out of flat windows. don’t forget some flats will have two or more cars. at least there will be somewhere to hang out the washing when all the smog has gone NOT.
Collecting parcels etc ,which mean there will be more people on the road ( if the local sorting office is anything to go by ),so in effect ,cancelling out any good being done !
You forget that motorbikes are far worse than cars for producing NOx comparing vehicle for vehicle. The government ignore this fact as well.
Better stick them on the banned list then Derek…!
i’ll tell you what mark we better stick ourselves on the band list is if they’ve got their way we won’t be going anywhere
Who said that Derek?
They need to go on the banned list as well
Where does the electric for electric cars come from, mostly fossil fuels I would think.
Is that a good outcome?
Not true look at gridwatch for actual data rather than make stuff up
Peter how about reducing Aircraft in the skies to help the environment, no one mentions this subject I wonder why.
It has been shown that if you removed all diesel vehicles from London you might reduce emissions by 2%. The sheer number of inhabitants create much more pollution than all the vehicles combined
Nail on head, it’s number of inhabitants. The world must bring in birth control then pollution will come down
I agree the prius is rubbish, a leaf makes better sense.
A leaf actually takes in Carbon dioxide in photosynthesis and throws out Oxygen!
Michael Gove thinks it’s Ok – and everyone knows he’s to be trusted,
The HS2 is fully electric
The equipment needed to build the railway and all the other transportation needed to get people and materials to sites along the route won’t be.
And that’s not mentioning the impact on the environment of building a railway through it. How come we never had all the Heathrow expansion type enquiries? They might just have found that nobody wants nor needs this huge and costly white elephant, most certainly those who’s houses it passes through or near.
Most people living near Heathrow want the expansion, loads of surveys have been done, those with houses near etc., do not want their homes devalued as will happen if the expansion doesn’t take place.
It is most certainly not a white elephant, as you would find out if you did some research.
How do I know this? ….I live one mile from Heathrow !
The hs2 relies on diesel engines to produce electric power.
Wrong. From the HS2 Route Corridor spec: “The power will be supplied from the National Grid 400kV or 275kV network”.
The electricity still has to be generated from fossil fuels, nuclear etc which generate the same if not more pollution but in a different place.
Announced July this year,”High Speed 2 is to start preparatory works for the future electrification of a 25km section of the Midland Main Line which will used by HS2 trains in phase 2b.
The section from Clay Cross to Sheffield will be used by HS2 as part of a spur into the city via Chesterfield.” That’s 25km out of 400km
The reality is that because 250mph was plucked out of the air for no real reason, HS2 will use 2-3 times the electricity a ‘normal’ high speed rail service would need.
The current official estimate of the electricity HS2 will need stands at 800MW. To put that into context, that’s half the output of one of the reactors planned for Hinkley C(nuclear), and is more than the total electricity produced by some power stations in the UK.(coal or gas).
It is also the case that, to fiddle the figures in the business case, HS2 Ltd have estimated that electricity price inflation will stop around 2035, so for the next 20 years they forecastr cost of electricity will go up, and then it will never go up again.
Wind resistance is a squaring function of speed; so a train moving at 250mph will experience four times more wind resistance than the same train moving at 125mph … and that doesn’t even take into consideration the huge additional energy required to get it up to that speed.
All that so that a few rich idiots can save a pretty insignificant amount of time on a journey that they probably didn’t need to do if they used teleconferencing technology. Yes, this service will be the exclusive right of the rich because they’re the only ones that’ll be able to afford the ticket price!
Just like HS1. A first class rail line for the well off, and the current rail system becoming the second class line for every one else.
Did someone skip Newton’s second law of motion?
I’m taking stuff to have my first motion never mind being able to have a second motion. Just one will do me nicely
Dear Stewart: For the benefit of readers of this web-site who have a strong interest in physics and believe they have a good understanding of Newtonian mechanics please elaborate on the point you made.
It would never get the chance to reach 250mph before it had to brake for the next station
However tgere are currently no plans to power it withvrenewable sourced power. Gossil fuel will be burned at Power Station.
Could you translate that into English please!
Your point being?
Yes but at a price that has more than doubled the original quote, and isn’t HS1 running at a loss?
Electric 100 per cent renewable, wind & solar?
this costs far more..wind is not reliable either none or too much wind. Always need stand by/back up power….solar not at night then what????
Elon Musk begs to differ
To build it and the running stock, stations etc are not made from electricity . And where do you think the electricity comes from ???
Snow flake society’s want the cake and eat it.
And electricity generated where, what fuel? Coal, Gas, maybe some Nuclear… Very little of it is renewable. Low speed trains for long journeys (e.g. London to Edinburgh) are about equal to average car (2l diesel Mondeo) in terms of pollution, high speed trains like ones use in HS are 2-3time more polluting, about the same ballpark as short haul flights. Always fact check!
Linas: I agree that it is a good idea to check facts before spouting out opinions and better still if the purported facts are backed up by giving reference to the appropriate research. Presumably you are referring to pollution of various types per person-mile so clarification is needed as to whether the typical car you mention is occupied by only the driver ( as is often the case) or carries the full complement of passengers; similarly some idea of typical loading factor of the trains is needed. Incidentally, if you were referring to the car carrying at least 3 people then I suspect ( but do not claim to know) you may well be close to the truth.
so how many more wind farms are going to be built to run the trains. it’s bad enough now people complaining about how many wind farms are being put up. the high speed trains are supposed to be for business people to get to places faster I THOUGHT THAT WAS WHAT COMPUTERS WAS SUPPOSSED TOBE FOR. Wouldn’t the money be better spent on making broadband faster then we wouldn’t need the trains.
Exactly. More video conferencing. face to face meetings should be on the way out. Scrap HS2 and spend the money on a few nuclear stations. We are going to need them…especially if we keep upsetting Russia.
Really, and where does the electric come from I wonder.
no tradesmen and everything done by bike, should delay getting these projects done for another century.
I’m still trying to picture the plumber cycling down the road looking like a tortoise!! I suppose the overflow outlet will help him see where he’s going.
Have you ever seen how many planes are up in the air at one time all doing a quarter of a mile per hour burning aviation fuel which burns a lot hotter causing more pollution than one little plumbers van doing60 MPG. GET THE PLANES SORTED OUT. Stop so many hollidays abroad and have them at home and boost our economy instead of everybody else’s. MAKE BRITAIN GRATE AGAIN AND WE CAN THEN LIVE BETTER LIVES. Thank you for letting me have my rant i feel a lot better now.
“MAKE BRITAIN GRATE AGAIN”. Perfect! The fairly tolerant and open Britain I grew up in has become a xenophobic cesspit of self-serving politicians bent on economic suicide rather than sorting out their own party, and they’ve trashed our reputation around the world by their racism and fixation on immigration as a policy evil. They’ve certainly made Britain “grate” on lots of our former friends.
I think Blythe is asking for a return to home coal fires. Far better toast, and consequently better lives.
The vans are not banned, the headline is mis leading. Electric or hybrid vans will be allowed and these are cheaper to run so you can expect lower prices. Like that will ever happen 🙂
Exactly, the worlds gone mad!
So on the back of my 44t artic is 26 pallets of cement for the Travis Perkins store in Fulham.
Hows that going to work then?
I think you need to read the last 3 lines…
Dave, I think you’re meant to stop on the outskirts & carry it one bag at a time to Fulham…..
If we don’t laugh, we’d only cry!
OR, how about sack trucks or even a wheelbarrow😊
do what the assies do, their trucks park outside the cities and off load and transfer to smaller vans not rocket science .
They’re not talking about banning HGVs. Besides is the delivery is all for one place it makes more sense in many ways to have the 1 HGV delivery than split the load and have lots of smaller deliveries.
It would appear Rick, that you have never worked with a delivery truck. Normally you have 8 or 9 drops in a day all at different places in and around town and outlying shops etc.
Will not be long before some bird brain with a degree in sociology suggesting we ban all HGVs from towns. Just wait and see.
Can’t wait for the traffic congestion of 20 electric vans taking loads off 1 artic.
Where did you see that happening? I used to be in logistics in Sydney and we were based at Botany, south of the city on the east coast and on the northern beaches. All vehicles, from vans to B-Doubles, had to go through the metropolitan area whether they were going to Homebush(the distribution hub) or Brisbane – and we were far from the only companies, B-Doubles are permitted to cross the Harbour Bridges too.
Headline ” Vans to be banned from city centres “
And where will you park a 44ft artic and a smaller van goes in , how long will that take. Lorry drivers are not home all week as it is.
Simple solution is to boycott all city centres, then they will have to let all vans in, the world expects things done quickly these days. What about people moving into a new built house in the centre on London say, park 1 mile then have all their personal belongings with other items by another source. This will not catch on.
What the Aussies actually do is stop road trains outside the cities and then deliver the trailers one at a time using HGVs. Have you ever tried to get an indivisible load into a van?
Have you considered the congestion caused by 20
vans for every artic load.
Yes and the cost? And the time? These namby pamby, hoity poity, sit in the office staring at the laptop waiting for the next email, couldn’t screw in a light bulb brigade make me laugh ol. And getting rid of diesels is going to solve anything?
but their banning smaller vans?
…= Science Fiction. Amazon currently expects that subcontracted vans do in excess of 100 deliveries a day.
The proposed ban is for Vans, not HGVs. Perhaps read the article before commenting. Just a thought…
Not even that the internal combustion engine is being banned not the van.
Two companies have just announced 1000hp artic lorries full electric. If you don’t know how it will work then someone will show you
44 electric vans of course – don’t be silly – it’s simple!!
That will be so funny when everything grinds to a halt when tradesmen & delivery drivers cannot support the infrastructure within cities any more as you can’t drive round the country in one vehicle & leave an electric vehicle parked or stored on the outskirts of every city just to travel the final miles. Hardly well thought out, but then that is politicians for you. They don’t live in the real world!
And if you need to move house/office ?
You hire around 1000 cyclists to carry a bit each…. bit expensive but Im sure it will work… NOT!
Just checked the date and it’s NOT April 1st !!! I remember when we used to have milkmen. They delivered milk and a few other products to our homes using, you guessed it an electrically powered vehicle! !!! Now what ever happened to them? I hope this new strategic plan for transport has a good business case that the PRIVATE sector will fall over themselves to deliver.
What plans are in place to meet the enormous demand for electricity from the proposed switch to electric cars and vans? Are new power stations being built? And what about the nationwide network of charging points that will be necessary?
One wonders also once everyone has been forced to buy an electric vehicle if the cost of electricity will soar
Once everyone has changed to electric, they will go back to diesel again… Good for business….
it will. like with everything else. supply and demand the UK only operates with a few % extra backup for the electricity we currently supply, we do not have the infrastructure for extra power and if everyone does eventually get an electric vehicle then they really need to start building more power stations and fast! wind solar anything really. its also worth pointing out that electric cars (despite being called green) are far from it. all they do is shift the pollution to a place out of sight. but hey Out of sight out of mind right Government ! that’s been your rule for years.
no they don’t, do some research. Even if they were powered by coal generated electric they would still be greener than ICE cars. The renewable mix grows each year as does battery storage making them even greener. as for vans, smaller ones are currently available and when larger ones come about i’ll finally be able to get rid of my Vivaro.
You have to look at the manufacturing process for the Electric Car, the amount of Pollution to create the battery itself and ship to manufacturing plant, out weighs the Green effect of the car.
hey are the main reason why electric vehicles can generate more carbon emissions over their lifecycle – from procurement of raw materials to manufacturing, use and recycling – than petrol or diesel cars. Three factors account for this.
Firstly, producing an electric vehicle contributes, on average, twice as much to global warming potential and uses double the amount of energy than producing a combustion engine car. This is mainly because of its battery. Battery production uses a lot of energy, from the extraction of raw materials to the electricity consumed in manufacture. The bigger the electric car and its range, the more battery cells are needed to power it, and consequently the more carbon produced.
Secondly, once in use, an electric vehicle is only as green as the electricity that feeds its battery. A coal-powered battery is dirtier than a solar-powered battery. Governments can help by speeding up their transition to greener energy.
Thirdly, while an electric vehicle has a higher carbon footprint at the beginning of its lifecycle, it is typically cleaner once in use. Over time, it can catch up on the combustion engine car. The point at which an electric vehicle’s lifetime emissions break even with a combustion engine car also depends on the car’s mileage.
Don’t forget the third world kids exploited to extract the metals etc needed to manufacture batteries, and the absolutely filthy polluting processes used.
How does battery storage make them greener? You have to build the batteries leading to resource depletion and then charge them with electricity from another source. The whole idea is a politician’s fantasy, fed to them by pie in the sky so-called environmentalists who simply haven’t a clue.
“wind solar anything really”
Intermittent sources are no use.
This is wrong. There is a huge capacity over night and mid afternoon . Tariff changes will encourage us to use this time to charge cars.
Not everyone will be getting an electric car/van. All those in high rise flats, how could you be able to charge from the 10 or 15th floor & no driveway, unless you have masses of extension leads & open windows everywhere inviting break ins. And 25k for a leaf that has a range of 155miles against a corsa that is 15k & has a 400mile range. Its convenience people want not clean.
A good point. Solar on my roof as I had the same thought
Yes plans are in progress. Why do you assume that the electric industry doesn’t want 25 million new customers buying three times more power. Money talks.
The introduction of such policies will impact heavily on retailers, who already seeing a downturn in business due to austerity.
Transport costs will increase considerably when hauliers are forced to purchase vehicles which are suitable for town centres.
Departmental stores and supermarkets for example will not be able to receive bulk deliveries of goods, which will lead to higher prices.
Councils continue to approve such measures and make “noises” about pollution by others, but do they consider the impact on the environment when taking decisions on traffic movement.?
Some time ago there was a series of pop concerts in Wales which attracted some 250 thousand ticket holders over 4 days. However, the local authority decided in its wisdom to close a Park and Ride facility before the concerts started, which meant motorists were forced to travel to the other side of the City, using suburban roads, in order to park.
Perhaps central government needs to educate Councils on what the impact of pollution means, and what is necessary to decrease it.
I am waiting for the government to ban all fireworks displays in the interest of public health.
Chemical and Environmental Research, 1996, Vol. 5 international Conference, Impact of Fireworks on our Environment, Mandal, R. Sen, B.K.; Sen, S. Department of Chemistry, University College of Science, Calcutta.
“The burning of fireworks introduces huge amounts of toxic gases into the atmosphere, along
with large quantities of particulate matter. Metals like Magnesium, Aluminium and Iron are used in the manufacture of many fireworks, while nitrates and carbonates of some toxic metals like Barium, Strontium, Calcium and Copper are added to produce beautifully coloured fireworks.
Carbon, Nitrogen and Sulphur contained in those fireworks are ultimately converted into
Carbon monoxide, Carbon dioxide, Nitrous oxides and Sulphur oxides, together with huge
amounts of water vapour, and released into the atmosphere.
The particulate matter, consisting of unburnt carbon particles and oxides of metal, is of different particle sizes. The heavier ones are precipitated as dust and those with small sizes remain suspended in the
atmosphere as an aerosol. The latter enter into the respiratory tract along with the gaseous pollutants causing emphysema and other pulmonary diseases.
The fine particles of so-called harmless metal oxides form a thin coating on the mucosa
and impair their normal functioning. The heavier particles containing toxic heavy metals
are mixed up with the soil and enter the food chain causing severe damage to both flora
Oh, I forgot bonfires and bio-mass:
Organohalogen Compounds, 1995 Vol 24 –15th International Symposium, Dioxins
in Ambient Air, Bonfire Night, 1994
“The UK Department of the Environment estimated that significant fractions of UK emissions of dioxins might arise from the uncontrolled combustion of biomass and wood, for example on bonfires and domestic fires. The data collected showed a fourfold increase in the dioxin levels in the ambient air in the
period over which there were many more bonfires than usual.”
it will remove a lot of visually impaired people who rely on sound before stepping out into the road !!!!!
another idea that has been dreamt up by a person who has never delivered even a pizza, get a grip !!!!
Ev’s emit a tone at low speed through a speaker as a safety precaution for pedestrians. at higher speeds tyre noise is enough.
All the electric vehicle proposals and no apparent power station proposals?????
We don’t need more generation. We need storage and guess what electric cars have inside
Heavy goods vehicles are banned in many continental cities during the day only allowed to drive in or through at night why not in all towns and cities in Britain ? Also many streets and roads in many places are no longer roads but should now be called CARPARKS as that is what they now are
It will take a lot to convince me that autonomous cars are a practical reality and I’m driving a vehicle which already carries much of the technology.
I do on average 45,000 miles a year in my van, some days more than 400 miles in a day around the country. Pray tell how I’m going to provide a service to customers if my vehicle has to charge when I need it most?
Let Oxford ban vans , they hate the motorist anyhow & the road network is abysmal for a major city, but don’t come crying when all the businesses pack up & leave the city as they can’t get deliveries & all the restaurants that their tourists visit are closed as they cannot get a tradesman to fix their equipment.
No wonder I rarely work in Oxford despite living approx 30 miles from it. Had to move my van 3 times the other week to do 1 job as you could only get 1 hour parking with no return in 2 hours , in the vicinity of where I was working.
Surely that affects pollution more by lots of stop start driving looking for parking in the city centre?
More new commercial vehicles on the road these days than cars, both mine are Euro 6 engined, yet loads of 10 year old plus cars around emitting far more. Van dealers are booming with loads of new models more efficient emerging while new car sales are supposedly flagging.
Perhaps we should drive to work in £100K Tesla’s & park them on the moon????
Typical government with populist ideas without any thought behind them. No debt thought up by somebody driving a clapped out 20 year old Volvo or being chauffeured around in a big governmental Jag……
I live half way between Oxford and Cambridge. Tried going to both for a weekend day out / shopping, lunch etc. Once each. The’re both so car-hostile. I actually find it easier to go spend my money in London!
How did you get to London? How was the parking and the driving when you got there?
You won’t be doing 400 miles a day in a totally electric vehicle and I’m looking forward to the driverless variety delivering my groceries, or is that too far fetched !
So, the driverless car will deliver your groceries? What’s it going to do when it gets to your house? Toot its horn until you go out to it and get your groceries? What if you’re infirm and need someone/some thing to get your groceries from car to kitchen for you and you’re home help isn’t there when the car decides to turn up especially when you’re on the eleventeenth floor of a block of flats? I guess we’re all going to need androids to run down the stairs because the lift’s out of order.
I`m surprised you can do 400 miles a day (including deliveries?)
I think, if you bother to actually read Colin’s post, John, Colin is a service engineer with a van full of tools.
I take in deliveries and drivers have had 200k on their vans than are barely 3 years old, the mileage that is done is fantastic.
Agree. Please pray tell me am I banned in my diesel motorhome? Am still looking for trees with electric points as I don’t use campsites as I’m fully independent.
if you’re spending all that time driving you can’t be doing much work
You need a plug in hybrid
Your van will be fully kitted with solar cells, your energy costs will the be zero, but you will have to go like hell when the sun is out, the upside plenty of rest days as it doesn’t come out too often.
I see a few examples everyday where a courier delivers one packet into an office block. I know several people who have packages delivered to their offices in London. Surely, there will come a time when all these “convenience for customer” journeys will have to end?
Ahem…. Didn’t we have electric milk delivery vehicles 50 years ago so the milkman could make his deliveries in the wee hours of the morning!? There really is nothing new under the sun.
Our milk used to be delivered by horse and cart. May be that’s the next step.
Judging by the speed on our roads during peak hour, this would be an improvement
Not acceptable by the green party, a horse produces large quantities of methan gas during the average day, would be an obstruction on today’s modern roads.
The gases would add to the fake “global warming” rubbish put out by various governments as it is a means to make money like everything else they interfere with.
Bedford, Lucas and Chloride made these http://vauxpedianet.uk2sitebuilder.com/bedford-97000—cf-e in the 1980’s..foreign manufacturers just about caught up in the early 2000’s, strange that Lucas, Chloride and Bedford have all been shut down…
What about hybrid vans diesel out of town switch over inside city limits
You have the honour of one of the very few constructive comments to be seen among the defeatist ‘it’s surely not going to work’ reactions above.
It’s surely not going to work…..and neither will anybody else.
Well if you travel down the m11 you will find a large place to your left that was a hub to do just this and it failed big time.
Good idea. The van manufacturers will love this idea too. Problem is most hybrids will run electric at lower speeds until the battery runs out then switch to fossil fuel. You kind of need a manual override but what to do if your battery runs out?
Can someone tell me why hybrid vehicles cannot recharge the batteries themselves when operating in fossil fuels mode?
They do it is called regenerative braking and as I understand it the systems are not as efficient as the designers would like and therefore in stop/start traffic the drain on the battery to overcome static resistance and inertia etc., is greater than the kinetic energy required to keep the batteries topped up. At low speeds the brakes generate such small amounts of energy that it does not even cover the fixed losses in the inverter and motor and hence the batteries deplete and need to be charged externally.
Engine also recharges battery ….. Phev is similar, but at least you can charge a decent amount of range so it doesn’t need to use engine to charge for 20 to 30 miles… I have an auris hybrid…..
As Jonty failed to answer the question as intended, I’ll try.
Firstly, recharging batteries by an ICE power plant is inefficient. The batteries themselves are usually only about 70% charge efficient never mind charging them via a 20-25% efficient ICE.
To do this whilst propelled by the ICE would mean a greater power requirement so the ICE would need to be larger and therefore less efficient.
Regenerative charging only reduces losses as it does not come close to recharging. Unfortunately it is a misnomer which fools many quite effectively.
The final drive is always electric to the wheels, with the engine charging the batteries whenever necessary. That’s how a hybrid works. The problem is if the electric motors are working hard (high speed or up hill travel) the engine doing the charging can’t keep up with the amps required to keep the batteries topped up, so eventually the vehicle runs out of power! This is exactly what happened to the Boris Buses when they were delivered to London from the manufacturer in Ireland. They all conked out on the M1 with flat traction batteries.
My thoughts exactly but right now, they don’t exist. The only vans available on the market are the all-electric Kangoo, Berlingo/Partner and NV200.
Hybrid vehicles are the most inefficient things imaginable! You have to carry heavy batteries plus heavy fuel and there is always one of them you’re not using!
I get 60 mpg out of my auris estate, only ever got 45mpg from my insignia diesel estate… That sounds more efficient to me
Van version of black cab and a ford transit currently being trialled in London, will be able to do this… Both on sale next year I believe… Look up fullycharged on YouTube for plenty of info on green tech and transport…
It’s not the engine noise that’s a nuisance…… It’s the slamming of doors and the driver whistling
Let’s ban whistling then !!
I’m all for reducing traffic in cities, but just electrifying everything seems like an expensive ‘magic wand’ approach by Government. Overhauling the road tax system to make walking and cycling the more attractive option for short journeys, and a more realistic freight strategy is needed, not bans and blocks, which is sadly typical of Westminster. The nanny state, meted out from the ivory tower.
Utter twadle… Vans are used for more than deliveries what about the tradesmen who rely on vans to go about their business. Or will we ban them too. So fewer people can actually move back into the cities because they won’t be able to renoovate sub standard homes.
Won’t be able to renovate sub standard home – bit of a generalisation with no evidence to back it up.
This seem to be one of those ideas that are very attractive in theory. I was stated that there will be an increasing number and variety of electric vans available. Who will pay for the massive cost of these replacement vehicles. There are vans used by a wide variety of users ranging from large transport firms to sole traders. Whilst it is true that the fuel costs (at the moment) are less the maintenance cost will be higher, so the lifetime cost of the vehicle will be raised. As with any increase in cost, it will be passed on to the customer driving prices up and the loss of revenue derived from tax and duty on petrol and diesel will have to be recouped from other tax sources
As the idea is to replace fossil fuel vans with electric the only road congestion saving will result from certain users being forced off the road due to the replacement cost of there vehicles.
All that being said, if over a period of say 10 years the availability and cost of eclectic vehicles along with improved charging infrastructure could create the conditions that will cause a natural and gradual change away from the uses of fossil fuels
“It has the potential to make city centres much more pleasant places to visit”
Really? We import 1 million invaders a year & with our current population near 90m (that’s what utility companies say not I) our roads will only get busier & busier. City centres across the UK are magnets for violent crime & more & more shops are closing (less choice) so of course with increased level of violence & less choice more people shop online. This “initiative” should really only apply to delivery vehicles & taxis.
All of this means nothing if there’s no society to drive around in. There number of no-go areas are growing every year.
Who are the invaders?
The current population of the United Kingdom is 65,577,608 as of Friday, September 1, 2017, based on the latest United Nations estimates. Google it!
Exactly, estimates, plus the extra population of tourists in the summer.
Don’t forget all the illegal ones too, so the total is more like 66million already.
Silent electric vehicle deliveries in the middle of the night? I hope it’s always outside a politicians house – SLAM of driver’s door, SLAM SLAM of back doors SLIDE SLAM of side door, fairly quiet delivery unless the driver is shouting into his mobile phone, then SLAM again s he closes the driver’s door to drive off. Politicians get REAL!!!
At least you won’t need to stay off work waiting for the parcel from Amazon. They can wake you up in middle of night instead.
Not to mention the hellish beeping as they reverse, even people carriers have the things nowadays.
I have been miles away up mountains and been able to hear trucks and tractors reversing!
Electric city vehicles have to be way most sensible way forward. Would emergency services be exempt, or are fire engines, ambulances, and first responders also included; ie paramedics and police?
Fascinating how Renault and Nissan dominate the electric van market but next few years Mercedes RENAULT and volkswagen are getting involved…
How can you be already dominating a market that you’re not getting involved in for a few years?
Totally unworkable maybe in 20 yrs time when there are electric trucks.
For now all these desk bound so called clever people look at is money making plans. Congestion charge, hasn’t worked. It’s all about the money. T charge another money making con. Non of the current systems actually reduce emissions. Ban private cars from city centers no option to pay a charge. Bus, train or trams.
All powered by a dirty generator somewhere not in my back garden, thank you, and cheap fuel (compared with petrol/diesel) no fuel duty, VAT at 5% etc, all subsidised by everyone else.
Retail in shops in towns and cities is nearly Dead. So if they go ahead with this there will be no retail shops at all. Its ok if you want something light to buy and carry, go by bus, But anything over a couple of bags is a no-no. So you have to get it delivered. They have known about Diesel for years
Banning them is stupid most new diesel are as clean as you can get, If they want to be really sensible, stop all planes flying.b biggest polluters.No traffic around airports.
Basically, there are too many people in this country.T he damage has already been done.
Biggest polluters are all the container ships using heavy tank oil to transport the stuff required to meet the globalisation of Amazon, Ebay and the likes.
now that’s a great idea getting rid of fossil fuelled vans it will make it much better and cleaner around the towns hope this happens in Plymouth soon
BRING BACK THE USE OF THE HORSE AND CART IT WORKED MANY YEARS AGO SO WHY NOT NOW.??????
And what about Trolleybuses?????
In the 1940s and 1950s London operated 1800 of them along with most major cities across the UK.
They were displaced because “diesel was cheaper”.
Although they were totally electric and no had no tail pipes.
That philosophy like so many others was “short termism”.
In todays “environmentally aware” world where are the trolleybuses and what is the government and transport authorities doing to reinstate them?
I remember trolley busses in the 1950’s and 60’s. They were far more versatile than present day trams. They could overtake obstructions and there was no need to dig up and reinforce all the roads. The twin overhead wires were supported off buildings and roadside posts. What would be the comparative cost today to bring back this really useful form of transport? Maybe… Have a Hybrid trolley bus – half overhead and half battery for places where over head wires were not practical. Could this be extended to trolleyvans too?
But the N.I.M.B.Y’s won’t like wires and posts everywhere. Too ugly and might decrease their property value…
I seem to remember the trolleybuses being replaced by diesel having something to do with the nationalisation of the electricity generating system….backhanders may have played a part too…
The completely out of touch numpties haven’t got a clue about transport, this system would cause chaos on the outskirts of cities, extend delivery times by hours even days. Another clueless tory government years ago came up with the idea to get trucks off the roads by sending goods by train, in the capital the created a change over off the goods onto vans to then be delivered into the city. Now they say get the vans out of the cities, the change over depot was called Stratford Lift, i spent many days there waiting to get loaded.
We need the vans and trucks it’s wot feeds the world it’s the idiot cars that course the pollution it’s them that needs banning from the city’s
‘Last mile’ deliveries WILL cost everyone more – trans-shipment is labour intensive, and 10 ‘vans’if electric, will use so much charging electricity that there will be less for industry to use.
If diesel, will produce 5 times as much pollution as a medium lorry.
What about van-based non-diesel MPVs under 3.5 tonnes? There are many people who have ‘up-to-8 seat’ minibuses, and many who have small campervans.
This proposal is like many suggestions – half-baked and with no consideration of the ‘Law of ‘.Unintended Consequences’.
They have now gone completely bonkers. Who dreams up these totally impractical ideas?
The ” Suits” – they would be the first to complain when their online purchase on expenses doesn’t
Ill conceived plan as per usual.
They walk amongst us !!
Another ill concieved scheme.
The government are seriously deluded if they think this will solve congestion.
As usual they have no idea of the real world, probably getting incentives’ or promises of lucrative jobs with the motor manufactures when they finish in parliament.
Hardly ‘green’ if we are going to have to build an extra 1,000,000 vans just to service the cities. There will be no reduction in traffic, although they will need more foreign delivery drivers!
Large depots to transfer goods for the deliveries into town, wasting valuable building/ agricultural land.
The noise of deliveries is not the engine, it’s the shouting drivers, moving loads, slamming doors and beeping reversing noise that disturb people.
Driverless cars and AI, a short term financial gain and quedos for manufactures/innovators without the long term thought on the potential pitfalls.
So the government want to build homes on car parks on city centres and then ban vans? The presumption seems to be that the residents won’t have cars so how will they get goods delivered? So we shall have empty flats on an area no one wants to live.
Perhaps they could ban vans from parking on grassy verges too as the housing estates are littered with vans parked wherever they like.
It’s vital to make Cities a nice place to visit and live. Getting rid of diesel fumes and reducing vehicle journeys must make sense for everyone.
Everyone blames the government for these proposals, and whilst it ultimately the government which would pass any new legislation, it is the civil servants who dream up these wild ideas. Let’s face it many of them are under employed and have to find some way of justifying their employment. We all need to ensure that the stupidity is not allowed to continue.
its more a problem of old vans. Because the vehicles is a work horse, people run the oldest , cheapest van they can get away with. The answer is to use the tax system to encourage newer, cleaner vans.
As a youth, I worked for Woolworth’s in my town. Deliveries came in’ small’ containers (not 40 tons anyway) which were unloaded from a train onto a tyred-wheel bogie which was pulled by a small 3-wheel tractor (petrol-powered) from the goods yard to the store. The bogie was left at the back of the store while we unloaded it. We then filled it with our dry waste (mostly compressed cardboard bales) and it was taken away when the next delivery arrived. If this principle was re-applied using electric powered tractors and more efficient use of train transport (always to the centre of the city) for non-urgent deliveries, surely a large portion of goods transport can be taken off the roads. Maybe using the wasted billions on HS2 could be used to digitise and improve the existing rail system to facilitate better goods transport…?
Should we go back to horse and carts!!!!!!!!!!
London streets were only built for horse and carts
Great idea, and the emissions can be put on your gardens to grow veg. Horses can crop the roadside grass saving the council mowing, hay can be grown in local parks and we can convert our garage into a stable….sorted
Clueless- try getting an extension built or having a boiler installed if you live in one of those areas- trades people will not invest in electric vehicles for years and will probably not even bother quoting for your work. We already refuse to go into central London as it’s too much hassle. Prices will go up hugely for those willing to invest as the competition will decrease.
Good luck winning at the next election!
Hmm! Wonder how much all that faffing about will add to the cost of already expensive deliveries? I’m sure haulage companies and ordinary tradespeople are going to love that idea!
So where are the interchange lorry parks going to be then where pallet loads of goods for a shop can be transferred into a whole fleet of vans to deliver the same goods through the front door? Where is that fleet of vans going to park while the goods are taken in through the front door as many shops do not have easy accessible loading bays at the rear of the store?
Those that have such facilities usually have decks at lorry height not at van floor height thus risking workers backs as they have to lift those goods up or down to the correct level. The whole idea is mad – must have been thought out by someone who has not the remotest idea of practicalities.
If the next suggestion is to deliver at night, who is going to work late or throughout the night to accept deliveries? Most small shops won’t have regular large deliveries, but small ones from many suppliers and won’t have the staff available for out of day timme deliveries.
We are governed by idiots.
They’re only talking about banning vans, not trucks. Still seems pretty pointless.
How do you think the large carriers work like UPS, Hermies ,DPD, ect. small vans collect and deliver taking goods to a area depot, where its sorted and the Trucked for to to the area depot for delivery, then transferred to small vans for deliver. These van could be electric, small ones are available now, and as batteries are improving ranges are increasing. ( most electric cars have ranges in excess of 100 miles, and the fast charging networks are being installed. Suggest you research the electric trans port set up by going to the fully charged you
Electric vehicles, a system that is so poorly thought out it’s laughable. We will end up with charging cables all over the pavements, taking forever to get anywhere over the limit of the batteries. Imagine all the ‘electric’ stations with cars parked up for ages to charge. people doing long trips having to add on hours just to charge and then imagine a row of terraced houses, with no drives! On top of this, with trains becoming all electric, where will all the power come from? We don’t produce enough already, so will have to buy from other countries at a huge cost. Don’t get me started on self-drive cars and lorries, that is a huge accident waiting to happen. If F1 can’t avoid faults with the money they spend, what chance the average family car? Pie in the sky the lot of it. Hydrogen is the only proper way and better driver training.
personally I have never been more liberated. I charge for free at work and never visit petrol stations except when I have to fill up my van. cant wait for that to be replaced with an electric one. sure terraced houses have an issue but they have always had an issue with cars as they aren’t suited for the car world. most new builds outside of London have drives. Where will the power come to produce hydrogen? it takes energy to produce and is thus a lot more expensive than simply charging your car. its just a change of habit that’s needed in most cases. we had similar problems when phones went from having a weeks worth of charge to a days worth. modern phones are much better though.
White van man keeps this country running in all its forms along with the HGV driver’s.
This idea is an insult to us hardworking couriers,the majority of which are working 12hr days non stop.
Increased online orders = increased courier deliveries.
Defeatist comments = reality check.
City/town centres are dying with many retailers going bust,if existing shops/businesses can’t receive deliveries there will be nothing to visit.
Why don’t all the poiltitians (who are all on their 8 week summer holiday) stop bashing white van man & think of something else.
How about all businesses & customers go & collect their own parcels from courier depots instead (stupid idea eh,just as stupid as banning vans from city centres).
driving an ev would be much more cost effective. fuel is a fraction of the price for EVs than for ICE. I’m about to start part time small scale deliveries with my leaf as the fuel money saved makes it viable as a sideline.
Can you fit 150 deliveries/parcels in your leaf,20% of which are time sensitive ??
two things come to mnd. 1. are the going to build huge lorry parks outside city centres to park delivery lorries so that they can unload and reload onto these last mile vehicles, and 2. with silent vehicles how is a blind person to know they are coming along the road and when it is safe to cross? Not very well thought out at all.
Can’t the point be argued without descending into insults?
Yet again a “plan” is put forward with too little thought. The idea of cleaning up emissions is a good one, this method, not so much. The issue is time. What’s the point of banning vans when there’s no real, viable alternative? Electric is promising but the infrastructure isn’t there yet. What happens when you build a house with no foundations? How much electricity will it take to power 4,000,000 vans where will it come from and how will it be generated? If carparks become a thing of the past, where are these technological marvels going to stop and recharge? The trouble is, modern life is so oil dependant that to make a fundamental change like this requires enormous prior investment. Get the alternative in place, then make sure it’s more attractive and nature will take it’s course.
Construction vehicles already have to be fitted with catalytic converters for zero emissions within central London and up to a certain radius. Would it not be a sensible suggestion for the government to to issue grants to companies who use vans so they can be fitted with a similar system. That way emissions would be reduced considerably and trades / deliveries would still be able to operate
Something to experiment with in London no doubt and get the rest of us to pick up the enormous cost. It will no doubt be deemed a great success and not fall apart until wider implementation is tried.
Great ideas, but, no thought or money to make viable change over yet, that needs to be inclusive.
Great so every time there is a power outage (breakdown , cut because of demand or strike) we will grind to a halt . Do I also recall that a lot of our power comes from elsewhere as a government thought it was a good idea to sell off .
We go all electric we will be held by the ….
Cloud cuckoo land, flying cars, driverless cars, no vans, for all those complaining,think where all your shopping & things you buy gets to you , can your tradesman with all tools needed get to you without a van or truck ,? Could he come on a bus with all tools etc ? Deliver planks of wood on a small electric van ? How may changeover parking areas are going to be built. ? When and by whom? Totally 100% unworkable in the real world,
The people that dream up these schemes should be locked in an asylum