In the latest barrage against diesel engines, councils across the country are preparing to restrict ice cream vans unless they go electric. The announcement comes as the climate change committee in government has announced that they expect by 2024/25 for electric vehicles to be the same price and have the same range.
Some internal combustion engines will still be on the road in 2050, especially for those who cannot afford to upgrade or for those who are too far out from charging points. Some other MPs are still questioning about charge points, as it seems there are no plans for the government to encourage development for business to build charge areas.
“A side order of asthma”
Ice cream vans have long been a staple of the British summer, hearing the jingle as it drives down the road, running out of the house for a Flake 99 or perhaps an ice lolly. Now, it seems this is in jeopardy as Camden council, in London, announced a ban on ice cream vans by installing a “no ice cream trading” sign in 40 streets.
Ice cream vans produce NOx and pump black soot out while they sell ice cream, and due to the young population that often visits them in summer, the risk is even higher. According to UNICEF “Across 86% of the UK, children are breathing in harmful levels of toxic air.” This high proportion of children breathing in high polluting air is devastating, as none of the pollution is their fault.
Green Party London Assembly member Caroline Russell, speaking to the Evening Standard, said: “No one wants to be the fun police or see people lose their businesses. But people don’t want a side order of asthma with their ice cream. This is a serious health issue. The ULEZ charge has helped but we can’t have a situation where you can pay to pollute. The roaming vans that trade in different streets every day, those will disappear over the next few years.”
Westminster Borough Council is trying to find alternative solutions such as plug-in points for roaming vendors, but haven’t confirmed anything yet.
Bring forward the ban
As this news was announced, the government also released a report into bringing forward the ban of combustion engines to 2030. This doesn’t come without complications though, as charging points and the zero-emissions target of 2050 have raised concerns.
By 2030, the government expects for electric vehicles to have the same range and price point as their combustion counterparts. This isn’t matched by the natural resources needed for the batteries, namely cobalt, as there are restrictions around obtaining the element.
There is also the charging issue, and as one MP put it: Mary Creagh, chair of the environmental audit committee, told the BBC: “Ministers are useless. They seem to think the market will miraculously provide charging point and the government has no job to regulate charging points.”
Charging points
Charging points have often been the sticking point for many potential EV drivers with some of our users raising the issue of public charging in remote locations. Areas such as Yorkshire and Wales have the least charging points in the UK, whereas Greater London (surprise, surprise) has the most.
On the other hand, surprisingly Scotland has a high proportion of electric vehicle charging points, the third highest in Great Britain. This is most likely due to the Scottish target to ban combustion engines by 2032, eight years before the UK target.
One must ask the question if petrol pumps and prices are not regulated, should there be government regulation on electric charge points? Obviously, there is a base layer of regulation to do with safety standards and that side of things but in terms of charging, companies are free to charge as little or as much as they want. Some use subscriptions on a monthly basis, others have a card that charges you for what you use, some do both. But if there is no pump price regulation, why should there be electric charge point regulation?
What do you think of the ban on ice cream vans? Do you think the target should be brought forward? Let us know below
I can’t see why Ice Cream vans shouldn’t be treated the same as other vehicles. No engine running when idle, and to be clean as possible.
It really is worrying that the government is kicking its heels regarding charging points though. I’d love to go electric, but as the range is typically too restrictive at the moment, charging points are even more important than they will be in the future.
When EV’s have a greater range, one charge at home over the weekend may be fine for the majority of people. Until then takeup will be limited, keeping prices high, development investment low and we’ll have a typical mess british governments seem to excel at!
Micky, what so you think keeps the ice cream cold. Like most people who work for councils and government. You have got f…. all brains.
SinpleHarry,
I’m sure you think you’re rather clever being insulting and flippant, but there are alternatives to diesel engines running to keep refrigerators cold.
But realising that wouldn’t make you feel big on the internet, would it.
A new ice cream van costs in the region of £90k or more. No doubt the super glue brigade will be out in protest unless ice cream van are banned. The way the soft ice cream machine runs from the engine has been developed and refined over many years, the machine only runs when the van is stationary and as such idling, not much fumes at all.
And how many one man operators are using these supervans? The majority I see are old, smelly [the vans, not the operators] and pumping out fumes into a queue of excited kids.
I have seen many ice cream vans belching out black smoke, but perhaps not for a while, despite what I said earlier.
If supermarkets installed solar panels in their car parks at a reasonable height to allow camper vans and Ice cream vans to recharge while on visits, they could run their shops AND their customers’ vehicles. They have them at Cannington Walled Gardens near Bridgwater. Maybe other places too. It’s the shape of things to come. The panels would also provide shade for customers with dogs in their cars.
Steve H Scratch Rwthless Allan
Please read my replies to both MikeUK and HappyHarry.
There’s all you’ll ever need to know about this in those two replies from me…
Scratch and Rwthless You might learn something . You too Allan
Solar panels provide ver little compared to what’s needed to run an Ice-cream van, Whitby Morison do now build electric Ice-ream vans, and do have a few Solar panels to help out, but Soft machines draw up to 2.5 kw per hour some more, and a slush machine around half that, plus there’s the other stuff I’ve mentioned, and an electric van will need to last for at least an 8 hour day, with a way bigger battery than a standard electric van.
Hope this helps everyone, please read as I’ve said my other posts, I’ve built and operated these vans, and fitted all the equipment.
I seem to remember milk floats got around all right and later on the had fridges on them would not a small on board generator be better. Just think a demand for a solution would perhaps create or sustain jobs and manufacturing?
What, a diesel generator?
They could carry a solar panel on the roof for that. Plenty of canal boats have those already.
The panels on canal boats are trickle charges for the batteries, in no way a solar panel on the roof of a van would provide enough power to run the ice cream maker…. Once again ideas put forward that are totally impracticable and have not been thought through.
Wasn’t a fridge, it was a ice box! Ice blocks were put inside & that kept the box cool.
And those alternatives are what?
never heard of propane gas? used on fridge trailers, probably in most of europe..
Join the discussion…Fridge trailers use liquid nitrogen.
Our camper van has solar panels on the roof that power the fridge (via a leisure battery). Given ice cream vans do most of their business when the sun is shining, solar panels would seem an obvious choice to me!
No way enough power to run an ice cream machine
It is the battery that is the power source it is charged via the engine on the move and the solar power when stoped
And when the suns not shining y’all get milk instead of ice cream
Some clearly know little or nothing about ice-cream vans. Not sure about the ‘soft’ vans but on both hard & soft vans what the public refer to as the fridge is what is called a holdover – this is not dependent on power from the engine of the van. It is basically an insulated cask that is plugged into the mains overnight. It retains the required temperature for holding ices (including the tank of ice cream) for the following day.
stop me & buy one
Yes correct but they still need to be driven around, and when I had a hard Ice-cream van, the sound of the engine (diesel) drew more people and people knew you were still there, nowadays there’s also other equipment like slush machines, you cannot stop the engine once you have one of those fitted.
Please read my other posts on here, you’ll read all about all of this, I see you understand holdover freezers, there’s chiller’s too, I’ve built new ones of both , fitted them and the condensing refrigeration equipment to run them.
HappyHarry
Please see my reply to @ MikeUK.
Government has no idea at all, if only they’d consult those who actually run these things.
I have a 10x-kva 240v Ac generator motor that runs at 1500 rpm via belts and an electric clutch off the engine, the engine ticks over at way less than that at about 800rpm , I get full power at that speed (slow tick-over) and in all use about 4-1/4 gallons of diesel per-day, less on shorter days… Cheers Andy
Please read what I wrote to MikeUK you may find it interesting.
I’d love to know where all the people who live in flats or can’t park outside their houses will recharge their cars. Some would say I’m lucky to have my own driveway, but to install a charging point would entail laying about 40 metres of cable around my house and across my garden from where the electricity supply comes into my house to the driveway which is at the other end of the plot. It’s a pity that all these do gooders have no thought for the impact their hare brained schemes have on the ordinary man in the street. They should get on their bikes and ride back to neverland.
Also, just how many people out there can afford an electric car, especially when this article predicts that everybody should be needing one in ten years time. So you either buy one of the very few cars currently available (and their prices will soar) or you buy a new one – don’t think my pension will stretch to that!
I don’t think we can continue using petrol and diesel just because it’s awkward at the moment to start using electricity. There needs to be a real effort by the government to put the infrastructure in place.
If it’s paying for people to have charging points put in, providing more charging points in car parks, or even using the existing lamp posts as charging points, something needs to be done.
It’s not ‘”do gooders” and their schemes aren’t hare-brained just because you can only see problems. Pollution is a real problem. Sticking to petrol and diesel without consideration for the issues they cause can just as easily be “selfish stick-in-the-mud’s with their Luddite ways of thinking”!
One has to be practical. Battery technology does not meet what many people need in terms of range, As for charging points there is not enough generation capacity to supply the power needed at this time and no plans seemingly to make it happen. All the new houses being built have no charge points mainly and no legislation to make it so. In the countryside it is worse and whilst in a city or urban environment knock yourselves out – here in rural areas the internal combustion engine will still be need well past 2050,
Totally agree. Billions have to be invested in the generation and infrastructure of supply and demand. This will take the government years so being honest before full EV take to the road at least small petrol engines will still be required Hybrid petrol electric.
Saying that we could all have Tesler Generators free energy.
What most people need in range – ie the average mileage done each day is about 30 miles a day. There is plenty of generation capacity – read what national grid have to say on the subject. 90% of the time 90% of cars are parked – and if connected to the grid they act as a stabilising force for the grid, reducing the need for transmission over pylons. Also, refineries use huge amounts of electricity – which will reduce as electric cars take over. Why is it worse in the countryside – I live in the countryside and have solar panels, also I have a mains connection. How many people in the countryside are not connected to the grid?
Paul Clark.
Please read through my replies on here..
I cover many thing about all to do with Ice-cream vans.
Whitby Morison produce new electric Soft/whip Ice-cream vans now.
I’ve written about those too.
There’s no doubt that pollution is a problem, there are many more polluters than just cars trucks and ice cream vans, take a look at aerospace and shipping for instance, then look at India and China.
Where the do gooders with their hare brained schemes go wrong is that the seem to think that someone (unnamed) can magic up the infrastructure for everyone to charge an electric car that nobody can afford.
If people can’t afford them, why is there such a waiting list – over a year for the new VW ID, tells model 3 etc… Range rovers are available almost on a same day service. Also, the lifetime cost of ownership is much cheaper, especially if you have solar panels.
Another Dave
Ice-cream vans are the least to worry about in reality, being that comparitively there’s very few of them, very free in each town or village. Etc.
Please read my other posts on here , all about Ice-cream vans, freezer’s soft-, machine’s, diesel , electric , had vans.
And new electric ones.
Regards Andy..
@mikeUK the issue for me is not the charging, but the environmental, socio-policitcal and monatary cost of producing Lithium Ion batteries. the main components are Litihium that is far from enviornmentally friendly to extract and only exists in far away places. Cobalt that is very scarce anywhere but the politically dubious country of the democratic(?) republic of Congo, but nothing yet comes close to making a viable replacement for our current cells. tie this to the fact that currently a 32% of the UK electricity is made by burning Natural Gas and only 30% comes from renweables combined.
This means in emissions alone (not taking into account the impact mining is having on those comunities and countries) a modern diesel car is actually better for the environment than electric untill both have been running for 10 years. now i know several diesels that can make it to 10 years, but the battery in an electric is usually beyond use after about 5, so some people really need to think about the whole supply chain impact of electric cars, and not just the fact they dont spew anything from their tail pipe.
EnviableOne – you make a VERY good set of points there. I had no idea that Lithium and Cobalt were so difficult to obtain. But even more important is the point you make about the durability of batteries. We all know that our mobile phone batteries are reducing in capacity as young as 2 years, so it stands to reason that the enormous drain on the rechargeable car batteries will have the same effect. And I guess that at present nobody really knows what the manufacturers will charge for replacements or what we as a planet will do with all the exhausted ones.
Carole you are absolutely right. I have an electric scooter and is 3 years old. The battery has reduced to 3 miles instead of 10 miles . The cost to replace these 3 batteries are the price I paid for the scooter.
There are not enough people in the media / public eye highlighting this point! Not to mention the problems associated with the disposal or recycling of batteries.
I have children and grandchildren but I am certain that they are exposed to much lower levels of air pollution than I was: lead in fuels; coal fires; heavy industry and a home full of smokers! If asthma is on the increase it’s not the diesel car that is responsible.
Very true, Anne. In the UK the air quality in towns and cities hasn’t been this good since before the Norman Conquest. What with moke and other biological toxins, the air was lethal. The fact that life expectancy is significantly improved since even the beginning of the 20th century tells the real story. Even London is nothing like it was in the 1960s. This is nothing but pathetic posturing on the part of virtue signallers and those who want to control the ability of people to travel.
The main component of lithium iron batteries is not lithium – The lithium is only used on the anode -it can be extracted from seawater, batteries are also recyclable. A $10,000 battery for a plug-in hybrid contains less than $100 worth of lithium. Although DRC is the biggest producer at 60%, other countries have reserves which are under developed – e.g. Australia & Canada. Emissions calculations only take into account the amount produced after you have filled it up at the petrol station – it takes massive amount of energy to find, drill, pump, heat and refine crude oil, also a refinery can use as much electricity as two cities. Car batteries are proving to be much better than expected and now have a guarantee of 10 years. I can’ t have a refinery on my roof – but I can have solar panels, and use the car to store the excess energy I produce (about 2000 kph a year. So every morning I have a “full tank”
Not to mention the energy losses involved in charging a battery. About 50% of the energy used to charge a battery is lost in heat.
An example:
A battery of capacity 1000mA, charged at 100mA per hour, will take between 14 and 16 hours. That extra 4 to 6 hours is lost in heat and other such losses to do with the chemical makeup of the battery.
This doesn’t include the losses that are incurred in the transmission of electric through the National Grid due to aluminium being the only sensible option as the conductor on power lines. The whole idea has not been thought out thoroughly. The Government is simply moving the problem to somewhere else, as the extra power needed to be generated (including losses) is not only wasting energy, it could potentially produce more pollution (unless we go nuclear (but that has its own set of issues)).
Hybrid seems to be the answer, electric generated locally to the required need. Perhaps an engine that runs off of alcohol, with the main byproduct being water.
Engine are running part other Alcohol now really.
Where engines haven really gon is like on trains, Diesel-electric or ever petrol or LPG electric, LPG is the cleanest constable fuel easily available for combustion engines.
Diesel- electric for example could have a 10 or 20 KVA or more generator/alternator in tandem with the engine, I’ve done this with a 10KW one in my Ice-cream van, to run the soft/Ice-cream machine ( when stationary) rather that the older more common shaft drive from the engine, both types use electromagnetic clutches to engage them.
Hybrids are a form of diesel electric/ petrol electric.
But what I said uses only the electric to drive the car..
19/06/2022 Electric is very expressive now and soon to increase even more this Autumn/Winter..
@EnviableOne. Good points, I am a mining engineer and have worked in south, central and east Africa for the past 40 years. While most major mining companies nowadays are as environmentally friendly as possible, we have left a mess for future generations to clean up. Cobalt and lithium have to be mined, there is not enough in scrap circulation to provide for the batteries for replacement of ICE vehicles. Rare earths are also required I think, these are predominantly from China. So you add in the emissions from transport and the EV is not entirely eco friendly. As far as charging stations go, from what I have seen from vloggers on YouTube is that if you are traveling further than the range of your car, then charging is a hit & miss affair.
Hydrogen fuel cells are another answer but the UK is lagging behind in their development as far as I can see. Unfortunately there is no quick fix.
EnviableOne,
I’m not saying Lithium Ion is the final solution, but I don’t think petrol/diesel is either.
Sure, everyone here comes up with their valid reasons for saying why we can’t go electric, but at the end of the day, fossil fuels will either run out or cause so much damage to the environment it will all be a moot point.
Diesel ships could well be the biggest pollutants, so maybe they need to change too. There needs to be a change in mindset for everyone. THis can on;y be led by governments under pressure from the population.
It’s not an overnight thing, and I’m a realist who can see both sides of the problem. Seems like most commenters here can’t see both sides, use pseudo science and ignorance to validate their ideas, or are just plain stubborn.
One thing that can’t be argued about is that the environment is in trouble. Carrying on the way we are is at best selfish and stupid, and possibly disasterous. Or have we got climate change deniers here too?
I assume that you live in a built up area, spare a thought for us in the sticks. Powys is 2000sq miles and a third of the land mass of Wales yet only has a handful of public ev charge points.
Part of the answer would be to insist that all new developments include charge points on each parking bay and for those developments that have no on site parking, that a levy is charged. The levy can then be used by councils to increase the infrastructure in their area??? Any additional build costs would simply be passed on.
Then why no heavy duty polluters like buses are going electric? I see an ice cream van maybe only in summer and once a day at most. I see buses every 10 minutes in both directions winter spring summer & autumn. Tell me which is the polluter? Buses or a little ice cream van?
Martin wood hasn’t been York then. All buses from park an ride are battery! Have been for the last 4 years, only bug bear is cheap council didn’t spec heating so cold in winter.
IN LONDON TFL IS DOING A GOOD JOB WITH MORE ELECTRIC/HYBRID BUSES APPEARING ALL THE TIME AS OLDER BUSES ARE REPLACED. SIMILARLY, COMMERCIAL VEHICLES USED FOR COUNCIL WORK ARE ALSO BEING REPLACED. WE HAVE THE ULEZ IN FORCE WHICH WILL BE EXTENDED AND IS BEING CONSIDERED BY OTHER TOWNS AND CITIES IN THE UK. THE BIGGEST PROBLEM IS WHERE TO CHARGE UP! ONE LOCAL SUPERMARKET DOES HAVE A NUMBER OF CHARGING POINTS BUT DUE ICE CAR OWNERS USING THE SPACES THEY ARE UN AVAILABLE!
Lamp Post charging? Best idea 💡 award you should start a campaign
I Will sign it ☺
Unfortunately mikeuk, there isn’t enough lithium and cobalt to build all the batteries, plus the national grid is not up to the job of charging 36 million cars at once. Your lamp post idea is a none starter as each car needs a minimum of a 40 amp charge input for a quickish charge time. Lamp posts are only low wattage with small wires feeding them. Hgv in battery form are no use, even Tesla has pulled the plug on that one.
There are already lamp post chargers in parts of London and Plymouth and they’re being rolled out in more places. They’re quite subtle so you might not notice them unless you were looking.
Yes but they have been done specifically for the job. I should have pointed out that I mean most street lights around the country, I know that the ones on our street are the new led efforts with skinny little wires feeding um because they just replace them last year. No foresight again, could have up graded for charging points.
Terraced housing. Lamp posts every 50m or more. Blocks of flats. Plenty of places where electric vehicles are impractical and it is difficult to see any fix.
MikeUK
Yes but for the number of Ice-cream vans in the UK , how many would be in each town or village, these are the less polluting type of vehicles around for that very reason, and they’re not in each street that long usually.
Plenty more to worry about before it should get to Ice-cream vans. many are sprinter Vans as well and have got ever cleaner.
Best for the environment by far are LPG but even in cars they’re still not that common. LPG is a fraction of even a petrol engine reguarding pollution.
Electric vehicles aren’t that cheap to run especially now 19/06/2022 and will be increasing sharply again…
Please read my other comments, a couple are to you, you’ll see all you need to know.
I think this is designed to make those without an acre of land, (where all the vehicles they own can be parked) have to keep using the cash cow of the internal combustion engine.
You can bet your life that someone in government has their finger in the charging point pie, and that’s the real reason for forcing electric cars on us.
Is anything going to be done about cruise ships laying in docks belchiing out diesel fumes for hour upon hour, or hgv lorries sitting on our congested roads similarly spewing toxic gases ? No it’s always the car driver who is tarred with the brush of blame and who has always to foot the bill.
Everyone is forgetting that 99% of households are spewing carbon monoxide out through the exhaust pipe from central heating so work out how to heat the millions òf home in an environmental way before destroying the motor industry Oh and if the government are serious about the abolition of the combustion engine why is my wifes diesel car VED free and my car is £20 a year VED
HGVs& BUSES ARE THE FIRST THINGS TARGETED IN LONDON ALREADY- YOU ARE BEING UNFAIR TO THEM AT THIS TIME.
Exactly my situation here, I have Plug-in Hybrid and government grand to install the charging point, but the landlord who owns the plot where flats are build would not give the permission to install it next to my parking space. So I just driving it as petrol car effectively. Few people in the estate whose flats happened to be next to the parking place just use extension cables (would like to see how they going to manage charging pure electric car from standard socket). Overall, most people who have driveways live outside of the city and would not benefit from electric car, nor benefit the city… whereas most people in the city lives in flats or terraced houses and simply have nowhere to charge the cars…
You are thinking small, charging can be done when the vehicle is moving via induction coils laid in the road or in public parking places etc. It was no issue to anyone when the whole country was dug up for fibre broadband so you can all play silly computer games faster so let’s stop moaning and get this done. We only have around 12 years to sort it out.
Mmmmm just soak in all that electro magnetic radiation……lovely!
Well said another Dave I think you speak for 98% of the UK
I think we should all join the ‘happy clappy brigade’. Unfortunately the present battery technology is n’t there yet and one design does n’t fit all. In pursuit of the obsession against diesel which by the way are today very clean, I think we should scrap all of the worlds shipping it uses diesel to transport 98% of worlds goods we have already grounded all aviation, we could then go back to the pre industrial revolution era and drive a pony and trap and live in hovels, I was going to suggest a euthanasia programme to reduce the expanding world population-forgive me, but in as much, medicine as we know it today, will no longer exist, mortality rates will go through the roof -so that takes care of the population problem . I’m just going out to buy an ice cream from the van, every thing in moderation.
Mike, If a bin lorry is allowed to run when idle then why not an Ice Cream van? Our Ice Cream van stops just 3 times in my road and only visits during the summer months but the bin lorry stops at least 20 times and visits all year round.
TonyB
I didn’t say just ice cream vans should be treated as normal cars are. All vehicles should be made as environmentally friendly as possible.
Ice cream vans are possibly at the lower end of the pollution stakes compared to lorries, busses and older vehicles in general. Playing the game of “there are worse offenders” though helps no-one. It’s the mentality people use to justify all sorts of things. Dropping a cigarette butt? There are worse offenders. Not paying all the tax you should? There are worse offenders. Cycling on the pavement? There are worse offenders. Need I go on?
The bin lorry doesn’t idle, its running to power the hydraulic system to pick your bin up and compact the waste in the back. If you don’t know what your talking about don’t say anything eh?
If your property is detached / have a garage, or you park on your own land allocated space can see how going electric is feasible, but the terraced streets in most of Britain forget it.
Ice cream vans could be greener maybe hybrid? but I don’t think they make enough money to pay for new hybrid vans. they need allot of power to power all the freezers and machines as well as drive about there very bespoke. Pure electric could be done with even more expense, but the production run size would mean they’d be exhorbitantly priced vehicles, what with healthy food agendas ice cream van industry investment will be less these days regardless of councils or govt demands. More likely older ice cream van operators will just pull out of the business as the deadlines kick in.
I own an ice cream van, and the engine is needed to run the compressor for the machine so that you get ICE cream rather than just cream. The freezer where the lollies are kept and the chiller where the mix is kept are both plugged into the mains overnight and draw no power from the engine at anytime.
Its also worth noting, my Ford Transit is nearly 18 years old and gets an advisory during the MOT saying “emissions too clean too test”… The same probably can’t be said for all those buses you see driving around, billowing black smoke out at such a rate that the back of the bus is caked in soot! Before they ban ice cream vans, maybe they ought to ban those things that they keep encouraging people to use, claiming they are better for the environment….
Small distance driven per day, that’s why the polluting vehicles all seem to be old! Plus…..
good profit margins,
MikeUK A hard Ice-cream van can cut it’s engine when stationary as the freezer and chiller charge up by electricity overnight, and these a storage platted freezers and chillers.
On the other hand although (Soft Ice-cream) vans also have the same kind of freezers and chillers, the Soft Ice-cream machine is driven by an engine run take of shaft, so for the Ice-cream van to produce Soft/ whipped Ice-cream the engine has to be kept running , both in order to mechanically operate ( ie turn, whip, airiate by mechanical pump and fir the Ice-cream to be dispensed, the engine needs to run, and also unlike the electric freezer and chiller, the freezing of the Soft-whip Ice-cream is also done by a machanically driven compressor to freeze the Ice-cream whilst being whipped, frozen and dispensed, all this is run off the single engine shaft that engaged by a large electric clutch, when the van is stationary, and must be in operation all the time..
Diesel engines are particularly good for this, are powerful and cheaper to run than say a petrol engine.
As for pollution there aren’t that many Ice-cream vans about, they do not stop in a street for very long, some who operate on a site also have an additional electric motor drive which takes over from the diesel engine, but the has to be access to a 240v mains electricity supply capable of 7.5kw start up load, and about 2 to 2kw running load..
Also a diesel van can have a slush machine fitted this is also 240v ac , but is still driven by the engine via an extra high powered alternator and two deep-cycle 12 volt batteries connected to a 3kw ac inverter, which convert’s the 12dc from the alternator to 240v ac at 3kw to power the slush machine.. the high power alternator has to also be kept running via the engine or the inverter would very soon stop provided enough power, slush machines also have electric compressors in the to freeze and to keep the slush frozen.
Then there’s all the ancillaries to run the Vans lights, extra lights, chimes, extractor fans, radiator fan, sink-pump. , power to the engine clutch and to another one in the Ice-cream machine.
The amount of CO2 and soot is way less in tick-over than under load ( driving) a typical van will do between 25 and 35 mpg , that’s under strong load as these vans are heavy, so stationary the pollution remains quite low, and who spends very long at an ice cream van, and at very most is once per day , unlikely to be every day..
Of course and electric van is good and they do now make them, normal vans are £70/£90,000 new, and electric ones even more than that, they also need twice the reserve power as a delivery van in order to power all the equipment I’ve mentioned and to last at least 8 hours at a time…
Hope this gives you some insight into what’s involved.
Unless we can stop India and China etc from pouring out emissions, we are wasting our time, as it is whisked around the whole planet, while it spins at 1000 miles per hour.
Governments know this and rely on the vast majority of us being too stupid to realise, whilst paying through the nose to replace perfectly good cars having plenty of life left in them with ones that, in practical terms, are inferior.
Well said John. Emissions from India and China are increasing by the year. Currently China is building the biggest coal fired power station ever, in Eastern Europe. Without them cutting emissions to zero as well its pointless us cutting.
We in the west have effectively exported a lot of our pollution to China, India etc, and now use them as an excuse to sit back and do nowt. We’re all fu^&ed – at least those younger than me, like my grandkids – unless we get a grip!
Adding to Paul’s comment, when just one volcanic eruption cancels out all efforts made by man to eliminate atmospheric pollution, what are we trying to achieve? Darwin’s theory of the survival of the fittest may mean that evolution gives man extra respiratory filters. Those not so blessed go extinct.
Don’t forget the USA, trump pulled out of the Paris Accord and is now trying to get coal as the main power generator. Plus he keeps making stupid comments about Solar/Wind power.
And to help stop ‘India and China etc. from pouring out emissions’ we need to develop alternatives. It’s not a waste of time.
Not a waste of time BUT the major impact of burning fossil fuels does not come from our part of the world now and the reason economies like India and China are reliant on it is because it is cheap and there is a plentiful supply in the country. The UK has a fundamental problem now that around 50 percent of our electricity supply comes from natural gas, mostly imported from Russia, and itself a fossil fuel albeit cleaner. The biggest polluters in Europe are coal fired stations in Germany since they shut down their nuclear capability post 2011. In France around 75 percent of electricity generated comes from nuclear and the demand on the grid is around 50 percent higher. We have not invested in nuclear in the UK since the 1980s and the remaining stations are approaching the original planned end of life.
Hardly any of our natural gas comes from Russia, the majority of it is either UK, Norwegian of liquified gas from Africa.
So they can turn off the supply anytime.
You have forgotten Russia & the USA,both are as bad as China etc.
Hi John, just curious, how does USA compare to India and China regarding emissions
Because unbelievable but lots of states don’t have car mot test so old bangers drive round making smoke like a battle ship. In Texas t you just need a working horn. Only California were they bother.
How about the many local buses that arrive early at bus stops and sit with their engines running!!!!!!!!
KP
Fair point. Turning there engines off would not help either as emission control systems only work effectively once they reach operating temperature. The future is Hydrogen only emission is water.
Isn’t water vapour the biggest constituent of so called “green house gasses”? (and yes, I know that water vapor isn’t a gas).
No. It isn’t.
But it’s not far off. It’s a very significant greenhouse gas.
Yes it is (first sentence here – “Water Vapor (sic) is the most abundant greenhouse gas in the atmosphere”).
But it isn’t that simple.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/monitoring-references/faq/greenhouse-gases.php?section=watervapor
I agree with the Hydrogen route alongside electric. What abouth people who go abroad with their caravans etc, small market I know but hydrogen power would solve the range issue.
Have you considered how hydrogen is produced? It requires large amounts of electricity to split water into it’s component elements, Hydrogen and Oxygen. Then the hydrogen has to be compressed to many thousands of pound per square inch and stored in heavy tanks. but hey don’t let a few problems like that put you off the simple throw away comment of” Hydrogen is the answer”
Then there is charging points, what about the many back streets with terraced houses, all owning a car, cables across the pavement, a very safe situation, and that’s if someone else is not parked there and the nearest you can get as 50 yards away. Yup charging at home, no problem…..
Produce Hydrogen from wind farms, then when there is wind surplus to requirements this is a method of storing surplus energy. It then becomes practical to build additional wind power because you can make use of capacity not required for the grid.
Unfortunately, the power requirements for the production of such a quantity of hydrogen would be too great to make it viable, nice though the thought may be. From where would you derive this power?
They do when they are stuck in traffic in towns ,cities and motorways
I’d love to know where UNICEF got 86% from: I had no idea there were so many children in the depths of Scotland, Wales, and SW England, or that those magnificent areas were themselves such a tiny percentage of the UK…
78% of statistics quoted are made up on the spot.
That’s not what it says. It says that the levels are harmful in 86% of the UK and there are children present, not that 86% of the people in the places that are harmful are 86children.
90% of people struggle to understand statistics.
The other 20% don’t even understand arithmetic.
Christ I wished UNICEF had referenced the 30’s to 70’s childhood, things have never been cleaner, but apparently everything is always a doomladen disaster in the current day.
Yes, most definitely! Ban them from waiting outside of schools at the end of the school day immediately. They sit there with their dirty diesel engines running for up to an hour creating huge levels of pollution that are blown into the kids faces as they walk by.
Better for the kids not to scoff ice cream! It will save them money. Much cheaper to buy a tub from the supermarket if you really want some.
Even better give them some fruit to eat as Ice cream is full of sugar and glucose.
Fruit also has sugars
xxx
Dave would be the first to complain if little Davie could not have his ice cream. A dumb comment by another brain dead Dave.
Why not LPG or ethanol (E85)? Those are very much pleasanter to breathe in than diesel (I know – my cars run on them).
Where does LPG come from? perhaps you had not noticed that LPG stands for liquefied petroleum gas, (the greens don’t want us to use this), which at the moment comes to us in large tankers from around the world, all diesel powered….. Very environmentally friendly. We could of course as a short term measure use our own supply of gas from fracking, but just a minute hasn’t that been stopped as well by the greens, who would have us back in the 18th century if they could…..
I live in Lancashire within 10miles of the fracking site & have felt the earth shake when they first started to frack,its ok when its not near you but how would you feel if your home were at risk of damage from fracking & i am not a supporter of the Green party etc.
If LPG is not the way to go, Why has a very popular Cruise Line got Ships that are powered by LPG??
So you think banning an ice cream van from parking outside a school will make a difference? How about all the buses and coaches and all the parents collecting kids in cars and joining in the rat race of traffic congestion that create all the fumes too? Why not ban all of them and let kids walk in the fresh air?
What a bunch of total F—–g idiots!!
Have they had a Referendum to find out if their Constituents agree?
Whats the point, the last one we had, they still have not carried out the peoples mandate.
That’s because it was bent as feck and has been found to be so by the Electoral Commission.
I agree. Remainers lied through their teeth and continue to do so.
Strange, I thought that the biggest lies came from the “Leave” side. You know “We will save £350 million per week that we can spend on the NHS” or “The free trade agreement that we will have to do with the European Union should be one of the easiest in human history,” or “Turkey is going to join the EU and millions of it’s people will flood the UK” or“Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the single market,” .
You would need a pretty big battery to run the freezer all day, if you didn’t have you probably wouldn’t be able to get home.
The number of ice cream vans must be so small as to make absolutely no difference and their emissions blow away in the wind. This us ridiculous. The amount of carbon dioxde breathed out by cyclists is far more than the pollution caused by ice cream vans.
I take it that this is a tongue-in-cheek comment.
On a windless hot day, the local pollution from a van would be noticeable. When the wind blows it doesn’t disappear. It goes somewhere, often just above the city if it’s in a basin.
If you’re comparing Co2 from cyclists you’ve have to include all people who do any exercise or manual labour (or do you think cyclists are a different breed).
MikeUk you are indeed causing more toxic pollution with the amount of sh!t coming out your mouth!
The emissions from these environmentalists mouths are far more harmful than any ice cream van……..
Has anyone else seen the photos of the camp sites used by the recent super-glue protesters?
@Paul65 yes, but really what do you expect from the great unwashed!
We should kill all the cows they produce more methane – Cow farts which is the most major contributer to greehouses gasess … That way no milk no ice cream vans problems solved eh?
First of all government should promote hydrogen powered vehicles, not electric. This would solve the charge point problem as hydrogen could be supplied by existing garages. It would also mean it could be done without having to wait whilst changing & reduce the threat of insufficient power being generated to cope with everybody charging their new electric cas. However& as ever, governments are leading us up the garden path only to do a U turn once we have all bought electric cars & tax them to promote a switch to hydrogen!
More generally we hear endless lobbying from environmental groups but the Greens only have one MP. No doubt with proportional representation they would have more but NOT a majrity to impose their environmental agenda. So if we haven’t voted for an environmental agenda, why are we nevertheless getting one? Whilst most would go along with common sense protections for the environment, environmental groups will always want more. In the end we will have to stand up against environmental extremism & no doubt be daemonised for it.
We certainly need a happy medium. It’s a sad fact that the government needs to protect us from ourselves at times.
Generally people are selfish, even if they know better. It’s why people get fat, why people smoke, why they use their phone when driving, etc.
I shudder to think what the green party would do if they got in though. Some of their policy if good, a lot is idealistic and the rest if frighteningly naive.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2186273-hydrogen-will-never-be-a-full-solution-to-our-green-energy-problems/
You are right they did a U-turn on Hybrids by moving the goal post after we bought them on congestion and tax
Hydrogen IS electric. How many more times!!!!
Also you seem to not be aware that as hydrogen cars are 1/3rs as efficient as battery electric cars (not to mention heavier!) they will need far more electricity generation capacity. That or you burn natural gas to make H2 which again…is a fossil fuel.
Please educate yourself a bit more! There is a reason all car manufacturers are going battery electric.
Not necessarily, you can burn hydrogen in an internal combustion engine just like petrol.
Only in a fuel cell vehicle does it generate electricity.
Oh good, Paul. A man with a brain. Really the people who comment on here and other sites don’t have a clue.
Getting a bit rude now as well as getting very personal. I think youve probably used up enough space, don’t you.
Hydrogen cells produce electricity for electric cars but also there are engines that can run directly on hydrogen. Perhaps hydrogen is less efficient than electricity & especially so if produced by electricity but it would be quicker to refuel & the infrastructure exists in the shape of existing garages to bring it online quickly.
So many people commenting on future needs by talking about current [no pun intended] technology. Given sufficient incentive we will come up with faster chargers, better ranges, and more alternative transport in built up areas. There’s no need for a single solution to such a complex problem.
Keith Simpson, hydrogen is a good idea, but you can’t store it like petrol or gas. It leaks out of the seals and through the tank. Plus is at a very high pressure that the un trained should not be playing with.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/2186273-hydrogen-will-never-be-a-full-solution-to-our-green-energy-problems/
Think about it: An ice cream van has an engine to drive around and also to keep the ice cream cold enough. We hired an ice cream trailer for a fete and that was powered by lead acid batteries, and kept the ice cream cold for 6 or 7 hours. Obviously the ice cream van needs more (or a larger ) battery, but isn’t using battery power when stationary except for the refrigeration. Also some of their stops are in parks or places where charging points could be supplied. Combine with better insulation, I don’t see this as the demise of the ice cream van.
Also why not apply the same restrictions to refrigerated lorries with their diesel driven refrigeration.
A Bosch upright 8 drawer Freezer has an average daily requirement of less than 1 Kwh per day. A Mercedes-Benz ECQ Electric SUV has a 90 Kwh battery giving a 445 Km range (20 Kwh / 100 Km (enough for an ice cream van). So with extra insulation and careful working of the freezer compartments, so they are only open at the moment of serving, There would be no problem running an all electric Ice Cream van. However it wouldn’t be a cheap upfront cost!
Also why,when many of us have home freezers would we pay £2.50 for an ice cream we can get for £1 from the supermarket. Yes the street ice cream van is going to go but will survive in leisure spots, away from home.
The freezer on an ice cream van is what is called a holdover cabinet,I.e. plug in at night which freezes the enteric plates in the fridge which slowly defrost during the day.
The whippy machine on the other hand is a direct drive via a drive shaft from the engine so need the engine to be running to work.
To do mobile sales you need the engine running.
As stated previously a new van is over 90k to buy.
445 KM = 276 miles!!!! Doe’s not sound so good when put this way. However, I presume you have got this information from the Mercedes sales brochure which we all know is done on a testbed in the most perfect conditions. In the real world these quoted figures somehow never can be achieved and are somewhat lower than those claimed.
Come on zoggie, as a retired person how many miles a day do you travel? I would think 276 might be enough to get you about.
Can’t buy a ‘whippy’ in any supermarket I’ve ever been to.
As soon as possible – I’ve hated the pollution and CO2 emissions they emit for years
Hydrogen is the only answer and we can then still enjoy lovely engines such as V8’s
No you can’t. BMW tried it and got 11mpg. As hydrogen costs more than petrol, you will be looking at a good £500 to do what costs you £300 in a petrol car.
I’d take an 11mpg V8 over some soulless battery s**tbox every day………..
While ever I can find something to burn in it I’m sticking with internal combustion.
Where’s all the electricity going to come from ?
Until the likes of America, Russia and China start bringing down there emissions whatever we do is a waste of time if we look at things globally.
The infrastructure we need stretches to upgrading the national grid and not just installing charging points, so while I’d be delighted if it was all in place in 2030, I can’t see it myself.
Judging by the price of ice creams from my local vans, I’m sure the profits are there to convert them to electric freezers, but realistically they’d still need to plug in somewhere.
The freezers are electric, they just use the diesel engine to generate the power to run them otherwise the battery would go dead in about 10 minutes.
Why don’t the eco police not travel to the many countries around the world which have shocking vehicle emissions? We’re much cleaner than we’ve ever been but still they want more. We all use something that isn’t “green “. Use your own energy in cleaning other continents up first.
Also, where does your clean green electric come from?? Never mind the resources to make lithium batteries and not forgetting their eventual disposal.
We need a Red party – the Green bandwagon – is just that. I am all for sensible care of the environment. But batteries are some of the most environmentally unfriendly things out there. I have yet to see which pillory we of the unconvinced will be lashed up to.
Oh, and how will we all afford travel in the winter when batteries don’t hold power.
Sigh!
Let’s all buy an electric and leave us skint the price of a electric car are not cheap then you have buy or lease batteries which is even more money then theres your electric bill so these people who say its economical to go electric prove it cause theres a lot of people who can not afford it even them who work if they cant get to work then it’s no job then more people on the dole because of the stupidity of some who say it’s better for there are ways to make exhausts better on vehicles but companies are being forced in to electric. Electric vehicles are not the safest of vehicles either the batteries are more toxic than petrol or diesel so you see electricity has it’s bad points too at the of the day it all boils down to is money and the government wants more of it of us the hard working public
Charging points – there are so many companies, each with their own rules, policies and pricing – until this lot becomes cohesive (and in the case of motorways, cost effective for PHEV’s), the technology will always be handicapped – small wonder Tesla is setting up its own charging infrastructure, they know third parties have their own agenda’s . . .
Disgusting. All small businesses need at least 5 years to re equip with vehicles that meet the emission standards. This sort of draconian regulation is putting livelihoods in jeopardy.
Thank you Dave, yes a minimum of 5 years and they shouldn’t enforce it, I’m losing sleep over this s**t !!! Fxxxxxg pen pushers !!
What about dust bin lorries then,don’t they polute ?
Just wondering about all these new electric cars. Is there a safe way to dispose of the batteries once they come to the end of their lifespan?
Until the range is improved and cost of electric cars is reduced I will stick with the internal combustion engine.
Like tomorrow I will be driving back from Scotland to Somerset and as far as I know there’s no decent electric car to do that length of trip in one day.
I’m sure it will happen but not in 11 years as the government is suggesting. Look how long it’s taking to roll out smart meters and that’s simple compared to the infrastructure required for millions of charging stations.
My biggest concern is for people who live in terraced houses with no private parking. I assume they are not to be allowed to run trailing leads across the footpath outside their homes so how are they to get their electricity to their electric cars for overnight charging?
Perhaps WiFi electricity? Or are councils going to install public charging points on the kerbside along all these streets?, I can just see the devastation when the vandals strike.
What about people who live in flats or who can’t park outside their home?
Traditionally ice cream vans have been around for ever and it would be a shame to ban them completely without even trying to find an alternative. Charge points with special plugs only available to that particular sort of vehicle with charge paid by the government for the compulsory change would be one idea. As for banning combustion engines may I ask what people will do with their Towbar’s as 2 EV’s are capable of towing so far and the amount of businesses that need to tow trailers with diesel plant machines. Caravan’s car transport etc will all cease to exist cos they can’t tow them ? Garages will close as they’re air compressors have combustion engines. Generators. And all the other things used in everyday life will be banned too? And if that’s not enough why is it only us. We drive all over the continent. What’s to say they are going to have charge points so we can drive to Spain or Germany or even get back. It’s an idea someone came up with that will take a lot more thinking about than just slapping a deadline on.
Yes Kev, and this is another example of where the Jeremy Clarkson sympathisers, selfish men, will be clapping hands and feet because caravans will effectively be removed from the roads. Young families and retired folk will have no affordable holiday without a caravan. This does not concern them…..yet.
When are these mealy mouthed eco warriors going to sod off and irratate a country that actually needs to lower it’s emissions?!
The UK emits less than 1% of the world total greenhouse gasses, so getting rid of all the diesel ice cream vans in the land is going to do the sum total of SOD ALL!
Instead of going to the source of the problem they are making people feel guilty about getting a 99 flake on a hot day, it’s pathetic! They’re doing this because they know if they go to the source (China/Russia/USA) they will more than likely be told where to go and then shot…….
….. something we should consider implementing here!
The Green Party seem to believe that pollution is a new problem it is not.
We are the cause of pollution just by being alive.
In 1952 in the Great London Smog there were 4000 deaths across just London in one short period. Today we are virtually pollution free. If you really want to cut pollution let us insist that children only go to schools within walking distance of their homes, that will remove vehicles outside school gates.
Why stop at road vehicles, lets scrap aircraft and go the whole hog and insist on the reintroduction of square rigged sailing ships. Journey time from Europe to America about 6 weeks
Sailing Ships!!!!!!! How could you suggest such a form of transport???? What will all the Tree Huggers do when all the trees have been cut down to make these ships. Oh, I know>>>>> they will all sit down and block the bridges and roads in London until the government replant them they have become mature again. (The Trees that is)
Ban them.
Batteries are a dumb idea for a replacement. There are politics at work and somehow fuel cells that use ionic fluid have been completely overlooked. With ionic fluid (ionic fuel), you would be able to refill the same way you do today – no chargers needed, no cables across the pavement, no electricity grid upgrade.
Ice cream vans are the invention of the devil. Ban them all, along with anything else that gives pleasure to undeserving people. But don’t under any circumstances do anything to prevent rich people and business people travelling the world regularly in first class seats while spewing pollution over the rest of us foot soldiers.
Ice cream vans are commonly based upon ancient van or flat bed truck platforms with engines which are museum pieces. Indeed, some vans are such boneshakers one has to wonder how, or if, they can have a valid MOT and if not they must then be devoid of any valid insurance. Of course, not all vans are that rickety but they do have constant running engines which must make their environmental impact about as intense as it can be, size for size. However, with EV technology at its current level and that ice cream vans must keep their fridges constantly powered, for how long will the batteries keep the systems running between charges? Unless the can hook up to lampposts!
As ever, we have ignoramus politicians pontificating on highly technical issues over which they have little or no comprehension and if they are spoon fed dubious promises by those of vested interests our political animals are just as likely to swallow half truths as not out of their abject ignorance.
Let them eat ice cream instead.
How strange that, despite apparently being so obsessed with vehicle emissions, the UK government have ignored speed humps and are also still pressing on with their “SMART” motorways and their stupid, constantly varying speed limits. Both of these significantly increase emissions and yet there’s no hard evidence to justify either from a safety perspective. Baffling. A cynic might even suggest that they had some other motive…
Firstly electric vehicles irrespective of use are far too expensive for most people. If everyone was forced to go electric, can you imagine a typical street of terraced houses electric cables across pavements to vehicles assuming everyone is able to park outside their house, impossible. The Country could not produce enough electric to power vehicles and properties. Are all heavy goods vehicles and emergency vehicles going to be upgraded first I doubt it. Icecream vehicles are few in number compared to other vehicles, if the government want us to go all electric then they will have to throw millions of pounds at it.
Will the government ban aviation fuel and start to build electric aircraft, electric cruise liners, electric juggernauts, electric combine harvesters and other farm machinery etc? I don’t think they have thought it through. We will certainly have to have a lot more power stations too.
Does any government think anything through before it acts & makes silly rules which are then found to be wrong or useless.
No
no I don’t I think its not right your taking away people business .
Curious comment Ann.
Two negatives deliver your view that you endorse the idea of taking away people’s business! (?)
A lot of these vans almost seem like classic vehicles which have been around for some time.
Which makes one wonder what will happen to vintage and classic vehicles when these electric rules come into place.
Yet again again the case is made for battery exchange centres rather than charg ing points.
Just a point. I was born in the late 1950s. We had the ice cream van come round in the 1960s obviously pumping out it’s diesel fumes. Very few kids had ‘asthma’ – I know of none becoming ill round my way from breathing in fumes from the ice cream van. You don’t stand there long enough – get your ice cream and go! I am now in my 60s and still alive and well despite breathing in fumes from the ice cream van!! It is all part of the namby pamby society we live in today. We ate real butter, drank whole milk (straight from the cow sometimes as we lived near a farm), had sugar, meat and were much FITTER than todays kids. We didn’t pile on weight because we PLAYED OUT – didn’t sit in front of the video games console all day moaning about vehicle emissions. As far as I can see the Government are adopting a Big Brother attitude to our whole lives and the people are not allowed to think or decide for themselves what is good or bad for them.
and now you’re picking up a pension that the rest of us are paying for…go back to reading your daily mail
wow! @GrimReaper you sound like such an intellecual person! if you had a brain you could be dangerous!!!!
I was born in the 1940s & also am on a pension for which I PAID into for 52 years starting work at 15 years old & retiring at 67 so I think we have earned our pensions, what about you, how many years will you work for your pension?
GrimReapers idea of work is most likely rising just before the betting shop opens and then spending the rest of the day in a pub while complaining that his benefits need to be increased to maintain his lifestyle and the need to lower pensions so it can happen
Actually I am not entitled to a pension until I am 66. I work FULL-TIME at a very busy consultancy so perhaps you should get your facts right before spouting off!!
no we paid it for it we worked for it not like all them on the dole
No, he’s picking up a pension that he has paid for all his working life. One day, you may be collecting a pension, I wonder how you will see it then?
I also skipped a meal once and didn’t die. Go figure!
Absolutely – and fun fair types like Bensons who exhaust their generators into my local park as they pack up. Anyone claiming to be in a public park for children’s entertainment must consider the health impacts on those very children in how they run their businesses – local authorities must act against these prolific polluters! And yes LAs should help these businesses by providing electricity in the parks
All of this is just a massive red herring. Ok yep within the inner Congestion Zone there is more traffic. Outside of it has there been a massive increase in people suffering from asthma. NO. Everyone would know someone among friends or family who suffered from asthma. My sister used to suffer due to stress and bad duvets etc. nothing to do with air quality. This is all to force people to have to buy a new car because Governments are scared about the debt levels they are all sitting on. And if they really cared for children’s health they and BAE wouldn’t be supplying and servicing the British planes to the Saudi’s used to bomb Yemeni children and women and men within the civilian population.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-46261983
85,000 children dead killed by your Government and a British company!!! Keep on paying your tax and listening to YOUR Government. It really cares for all those DEAD children – none of whom can sufffer from asthma!!!
100% agree
Someone more educated than I said “War is not about who is right, but about who is left”. If all we have left to sell to the world are war machines it’s a sad reflection upon our national callous combined consciousness that we condone the misery and suffering created, and we don’t even care upon who it is inflicted. Those children (callously) have at least been spared such pain. I am not proud of our country any more.
The sooner the better
I live in a sheltered housing complex some of the residents cannot travel so the local ice cream van is the only way to get an ice cream
How many ice cream vans do you see on the road between October and March? Most traders work hard to make a living to last the full 12 months in a 6 month time span. Most are self employed and don’t claim unemployment pay for their downtime.
This is total bull, we are never going to change any course .Its the Great TAX Rip off .
When all the vehicles both petrol and diesel have been banned from the roads and we are back to the horse and cart, will there be complaints that the horses are leaving too many droppings on the roads polluting the atmosphere and the wind produced creating too much methane. There is already a suggestion that farm animals are the culprits of producing too high levels of methane gas. Do we ban farm animals too. Why not just ban everything and go back to living in caves.?
They are trying to ban the farming of animals anyway. Speak to any farmers, and you will hear that not only are the environmentalists seriously advocating vegetarianism but that the authorities are loading costs of unnecessary beaurocracy onto the farmers to deliberately make farming unprofitable. What this has to do with ice cream vans I cannot remember.
A quick question how is the government going to replace the lost revenue from the sale of petrol and diesel when these vehicles are taken off the road.
Think I had already raised that question:)
Don’t worry, they will be working on that already. Another chance to rake money in via the electric car brigade.
if diesel is so bad, why not use biodiesel, i do and have done for 7 yrs, better for the environment and no waste…somethings not right here.??
It’s the charging that stops me from even contemplating electric vehicles I live in a Yorkshire village and the nearest public charging point is 30 miles away I rest my cade