2015: Volkswagen admit to fitting some of their diesel cars with a ‘defeat device’, aimed squarely at cheating the emissions tests for diesels around the world, in whichever form that testing took place. To date, it’s thought to have cost the Volkswagen Group over £38bn in penalties, fines and compensation.
2018: The High Court of Justice has awarded the Volkswagen Group nearly half-a-million pounds in compensation with regards to costs for a Group Litigation Order that directly relates to the ‘dieselgate’ scandal.
As the latest round of legal action against Volkswagen commences, in which investors are seeking compensation for the loss of share value to the tune of £8.2bn, there have been a number of “unnecessary and ineffective hearings” brought against the VW group in 2017 by legal firms acting on behalf of the UK owners, many of which have been premature, needless and unreasonable according to the court.
With this in mind, they will be awarding costs against some of the claimants to the value of £468,000 to Volkswagen, but it should be noted that this in no way diminishes the legality or the action against the Volkswagen Group in the longer term; this is perhaps more of an indication of the ‘ambulance chaser’ attitude toward the legal teams trying to make a fast penny from the action.
Despite there being no payout (as yet) for UK owners, Vopayoutn have already settled many cases in America, with claimants receiving a typical payout of between $5,000 to $10,000 depending on the age of the vehicle, so far, they’ve paid around $14bn.
The UK situation
To date, Volkswagen has offered to remove the defeat device from affected vehicles, as a free of charge service, but some drivers have commented on the lack of performance of the vehicle afterwards, which is no surprise.
There are a number of planned actions against the Volkswagen Group, the reason why the High Court has sided with VW in respect to the compensation has nothing to do with their liability, but there has been a deadline imposed; you need to register your claim before 26th October 2018 regardless of whether you’ve had the device removed or no longer own the vehicle. Missing this deadline could mean you’re not eligible for compensation.
Gareth Pope, head of group litigation for Slater and Gordon said: “Volkswagen have demonstrated high levels of contempt for UK owners by refusing to admit liability in the UK, over the same issue that they’ve paid compensation for elsewhere. They are relying on existing and former owners to not sign up to a group action”. It must be stated that Slater and Gordon are one of the firms criticised by the court for bringing premature and unnecessary action.
The bigger picture
It’s possible that this issue doesn’t just affect Volkswagen owners either, it’s believed that some Skoda, Seat and Porsche vehicles were also affected; the problem is so deep that the maker of the engine management system (Bosch GmbH) are ‘sponsoring’ some of the fines.
Volkswagen management has said that the Senior Management teams knew nothing of the cheating until 2015, that the decision to deliberately falsify the emissions was taken by middle-management and engineers, and if that was really the case, you’d have to wonder what other Quality Control procedures have been missed.
It’s this delay in reporting the scandal that has led to group litigation from investors – the share price lost 40% of its value in one day (approximately €25bn), and with record fines and compensation claims, Volkswagen has (to date) lost around $50bn, with yet more to lose when the UK legal action happens.
It’s worth noting that the U.S. has taken around $25bn in fines, penalties and compensation for the 580,000 diesels sold, whereas, in Europe, that number is closer to 8,000,000 diesel vehicles sold.
Further still, in December 2017, a Senior Engineer for Volkswagen USA was jailed for seven years for his part in the scandal, and the U.S. authorities are pushing to extradite Martin Winterkorn (Chief Executive Officer for Volkswagen) to face justice, but no extradition treaty exists between the USA and Germany so that’s unlikely to happen, however, it does send out a strong message to Volkswagen.
It seems that even three years later, Volkswagen is still paying the consequences for what’s become the biggest motoring scandal that we’ve seen, but it’s thanks (in part) to their action that new legislation in the form of the WLTP has been implemented, and that’s a good thing.
Are you part of the group litigation against Volkswagen? Do you think that Volkswagen’s CEO should face a prison sentence? Do you agree with the decision to compensate VW for unnecessary action? Let us know in the comments.
Yes it affects Skoda Seat Audi VW and possibly Porsche ……… after the software fix you will get a very noticeable drop in power ….and it will stall very easily, a drop in MPG by around 8mpg, rough running and sounding like a 1960s tractor……. very unreliable … just ask the recovery firms…… new EGRs and particulate filters new injectors needed and for two years VW group may even pay for this under their TBM trust building measures, there are nearly 8,000 people with problems on this facebook site https://www.facebook.com/groups/emissionsscandal/ and most of them will never touch another VAG car again…….. their second hand cars will be going cheap ….but please don’t buy a diesel from them ….it will end up costing you a lot of money
I don’t think Volkswagen should get any compensation until this case is completely paid out to less small people whose voices are never heard as a rule, I’ve had my device removed the car runs incredibly badly junctions you put your foot on the throttle to go and there is a significant 3 to 4 second delay before anything happens by which time the gap you were aiming for is closer and it makes it scary to be able to pull out of junctions I still have my VW as it sale price plummeted so much I paid 18,000 for it I was offered three .
Don’t blame VW they’ve made the engines compliant with emission standards set by people that don’t want you to burn “too much” fuel.
2010 Merkel was in California pleading emission rules relaxation. Mercedes have had 740000 European soldi vehicles identified by German Government (well after the VW ‘noise’ had subsided – who was ‘rewarded’ for that?) for Diesel emission issues which seem to be similar to VW Group.
This goes right back to the modus operandi of a BMW/VW/Daimler/Porsche/Audi Cartel.
READ Der Spiegel online Cartel.
To top it all Merkel has been reported as supporting the view of the manufacturers in their request to NOT to have to make hardware changes to remedy their cheating vehicles – in orde’ to save resources’ to develop new technology. This would leave existing owners out of pocket but do these manufacturers care? I doubt it. So they keep their ill gotten gains and on the back if these ‘savings’ sell new technology vehicles to the poor unsuspecting world…with maybe more false claims made for them (a Petrol Prices Hybrid vehicle article on fuel economy rather supported the fact such economy claims by German manufacturers were more often found to be exaggerated than the Far Eastern competitors).
To be fair it seems BMW has avoided the dieselgate issue but the Cartel which no other European manufacturers have been allowed to join is another matter. I gather EU is investigating this Cartel but what with the EU being A German dominated organisation I am not expecting much will happen and if large fines were announced for public consumption then something else will be given back somehow.
Cartel for automotive- what other cartels are there operating in Germany? Sad that a technically competent country with fine engineering talents should be seen to stoop so low.
Yes Skoda,SEAT, Audi and Porsche are all in this Diesel scandal as well. Top management in VW group not knowing about this till 2015? I am the Pope then. With German Government and Lande shareholding’s in many of these companies anyone with a clear head can see these companies have a lot of protection.
Although retired from Automotive I can still consider ‘cock up’ against outright conspiracy.
How do you register?
Google VW emissions claim …
The victimisation of VW is a typical case of vicious Government overreach, theft, and abuse of power. The so-called pollution from VW’s ‘Cheating’ was and remains so small as to be effectively non-existent Yet it did improve fuel consumption in a significant way. The improvement in fuel consumption meant less pollution over-all, so more than out-weighed the artificial ‘spot-test’ pollution which VW evaded. VW should be applauded and the self-seeking self-aggrandising Government Bureaucrats persecuting them should be jailed! Shame on the private scam artists trying to win ‘compensation’ from VW.
Patrick, You also need to look at the highly probable reasons they (and Mercedes?) did what they did and fuel consumption was not amongst them. It was more like Adblue consumption and tank capacity and with the Der Spiegel article this fits with my Automotive experience of treatment for NOX.
My assessment (for what it is worth) is that software changes without the necessary hardware ones (as Merkel is reported to have concurred with) must mean considerably different and degraded driver experiences as some have reported here.
One response I made regarding your disdain for cheating and the ethics , such as they were (even are ?) of VW’ GROUP’s (not only them it seems) deliberate actions reflect NOX Patrick seems to have been taken off this site….for now. If they did something deliberate (key word in all this) on a safety matter I guess that is OK by you?
Have you got a vw I was quite happy with mine until they put in new software. The car the n became dangerous due to the lack of power that would occur. I regularly have my young grandsons in the car. Not much fun when a lorry at high speed cannot stop in time then smashes into the back of you. You obviously do not have a vw by your comments. Take some advice keep your opinions to yourselve
Don’t know if that remark was directed at me or not Mark. I do not own A VW or any VW Group product. Nor will I ever – and Diesel cheating is not the core reason for saying that – just a symptom of the standard of their historical governance.
If you only had a software change then probably if NOX Related this MAY have been to reduce combustion temperatures – an influencer on NOX. This would more than likely entail EGR increased usage and theoretically reduced fuel consumption. However I am sure an ‘expert’ (they must have them somewhere) from. VW Group can find some way to counter that.
I think there’s a great deal of misinformation and hysteria involved in this and I’m sure the problems are more complex than we can possibly know on an internet forum. I’m no lover of VW because I work in the car industry and the regulatory backlash from this case is making life a lot more difficult for us all (even those of us who were trying to do it right)! However, I will say that I’m currently on my 5th VW Sharan company car, and that they all spanned the “cheating” period (i.e. I had one built before the problem was identified (which probably wasn’t “cheating” as it was built to earlier emissions regulations levels; a couple that WERE “cheating” cars and were modified, and a couple that were built AFTER the cheating had been discovered and rectified at the factory. I’m sufficiently anal to use a mobile phone app to keep accurate records of fuel consumption over the 20,000 or so miles that I have kept each of them. From the “cheating” to the “non-cheating” ones, I have noticed no discernible change in performance, a 2 MPG drop in average fuel consumption, and the need to top up the AdBlue at about 10,000 miles in the “post-cheating” ones, compared to about 16,000 miles in the “cheating” ones.
I own a VW. I had the fix done. Experience NO loss of power or economy. Made me think did the garage actually alter something?
I wonder the different experiences of people with cars that have had the software fix are related to the model itself, production model year and Euro Emissions spec of the vehicle in question.
How/Where do you register ??
Google VW emissions claims
Ridiculous. Our consumer protection laws are pathetic. In the US VW has had to buy back 100s of 1000s of their diesels, and fully compensate their customers whom they have cheated. The subject cars are currently marshalled on sites in the Californian desert, just like the abandoned commercial and military aircraft storage sites.
Anyone who knew what was going on should have a jail sentence. I had my car car done by vw to do the emissions. I had the car back found my fuel economy dropped quite significantly. When I told vw they treated me with contempt. As you can imagine I had no faith in the car and sold it on losing thousands. I will never buy another vw car again. If I pulled a scam like they did I would be sent to jail without passing go. Also on a couple of occasions the car lost power which it never did before the emissions were changed. Vw should be made bankrupt for what has happened. I want the £9500 back that I paid for the car. That is the least they can do.
I had exactly the same happen to me. I lost thousands of pounds too and was treated like it was all in my mind and that there was nothing wrong with my car after taking it into VW. I made a lot of complaints returning and they said there was nothing wrong. The car wasn’t running properly and felt different. It was not performing as it once did and I kept having to take it into get it checked. I felt like I was losing my mind and I lost all confidence with it and the brand. I am disgusted by it!
Yes I think the CEO should be jailed and all his assets cofiscated.
Yes I think that some of tthe frivolous cases should be thrown out of court and fined as well.
I don’t believe that VW should get any compensation at all. They blatantly lied to their customers. I bought a diesel based on their emissions claims and that it had less environmental impact. The diesel version cost considerably more than the petrol version. I don’t see why as a customer I should not be compensated at the very least on the cost difference for buying a diesel and the now much lower than expected resale value of my car. Fabulous that they removed the cheat from the system free of charge for me – why should I be expected to pay for the removal of this? The performance of my car had suffered. Are they paying to rectify that?
This isn’t a matter of cheating – this is out and out fraud.
Why discriminate against consumers in the UK when they’ve paid compensation elsewhere in the world. Fraud is fraud wherever it occurs. Treat your customers equally. You did with the cheat!
I can’t believe that anyone thought disel is better for the invieiroment you only have to follow one as it pulls away to see the c**p that comes out of the exhaust
It’s the C**p that you CAN’T see coming out of the exhaust that you need to worry about!
VW Audi have been very arrogant and given no apology. They wrote to me informing me that my Audi required modification and in the letter listed everything that would not be effected by the modification. I wrote to Audi asking for details of the work they proposed and what effect this would have. I was suprised to receive a phone call as they clearly didn’t want to put it in writing. When I insisted, their written response reiterated their earlier letter listing again what would not be effected and still no mention of what would. A thoroughly dishonest company and one I shall be glade to be rid of.
“… new legislation in the form of the WLTP has been implemented, and that’s a good thing…”
Really? It’s just made my new company car choice so restricted and the tax went up 25%. So the manufactures cheated, so now the end user pays the price.
This should have been phased in, not just brought in. It’s made having a company car no longer a perk, just an expensive liability for the duration of the lease.
Get an EV or plug in hybrid. BMW does some nice plugins.
That seems strange? WLTP only cam in on the 1st of September this year, and so far, most cars’ CO2 figures have not changed. They’re unlikely to change much until at least 2020.
Bit of a nerve by VW really!
Yet can’t find enough money(roughly £500m) to cover the 1300 of their longest serving employees pensions????!!!!!
I’m glad about this. VW deserve to be punished for what they have done (and they are being), but I can’t stand “ambulance chasers” even more than “cheating” car manufacturers! If there’s a genuine case to answer, then fine, bring it on. If some ambulance-chasing scum want to try and leap on to the bandwagon at the prospect of making a quick few quid and then end up not preparing their cases properly and paying the price for it, that’s just “sweet karma” as far as I’m concerned! These firms are as toxic for our society as oxides of nitrogen are for our lungs!
I have a Passat 2.0tdi (140ps) estate, I got it new in 2011, it drove faultlessly for five years and 94k miles. it had the “”FIX”” software installed when it was serviced in June 2016. instantly there was problems. rough running, engine rattles, poor economy (down 17-20mpg) and loss of power. i had 7 EGR replacements and 3 DPF replacements along with two complete sets of Injectors all within 15 months. VW had the car more than i did. i had emissions tests done privatley and the CO2 was at 186g/km, where it should be 120g/km and the Nox was up to 119mg/km this should be 72mg/km. and an oil sample revealed diesel in the engine oil attributed to the over frequent DPF regen’s
December last year i had just had the EGR replaced for the EIGHTH time i decided enough is enough and paid for an Independant garage to do a complete reversal of the “”FIX””. since then 9,400 miles there has been NO issues with the EGR or DPF. last week i had the same emissions test done and CO2 was at 105g/km and the Nox was at 63mg/km so a considerable reduction. as the original Ecu map file was put back i can only assume that this was how the car was running prior to the VW fix being applied?.
i think a lot of people are looking at this possibly the wrong way… we are supposed to be thinking “”GREEN””?. if this Fix makes the car produce more pollutants, then this must be bad? if VW were held accountable for this increase in emissions this would be a better way to go. Inside info from an EX-VW service manager shows over 450,000 VW’s have had the “”FIX”” reversed. a further 280,000 have declined the fix. so they will never hit the total figure of 1.2M cars?
but… as Vehicles only contribute 10% of the UK’s pollution then do we need to worry?. maybe time to look where the majority of the pollution is coming from. A new home gas boiler produces more pollution in one week than 5 diesel cars doing 1000 miles a month….
You do realise that your car is only giving those emissions reading while being tested stationary? With the original software back in place the defeat device is now operating again which is the whole reason for the ‘fix’.
The readings you were getting after VW removed the defeat device are the true emissions as the car is no longer ‘cheating’ when being tested.
Your car is certainly not operating at ‘CO2 105g/km and Nox 63mg/km’ whilst being driven – it will be much much higher. That’s what the defeat device does.
You are being fooled by the VW software in the same way everyone was before the scandal broke. Try having a test done whilst you are actually driving the car down the road, not stationary. You will be horrified at how much Nox you are putting out.
To explain in realy simple terms, when stationary the car goes into ‘being good mode’ and puts out very little pollution but would be horrible to drive (as you found out when the fix was applied). When you actually drive it down the road it goes into ‘very bad mode’ but gives you good performance.
So congratulations, you have just contributed to an increase in pollution!! Well done!!
If you don’t mind me asking, where did you get your CO2 and NOx tested?
My two litre Superb Estate had the software upgrade while being serviced two years ago, I notice no deteriorate in performance or fuel consumption. Since I purchased it from new over three years ago it has behaved perfectly with not a single fault.
I have a 1.6 litre Superb Estate Greenline which had the software upgrade done.
I didn’t see a drop in MPG (rather the opposite, now doing over 600 MPG per tank) and the car actually feels “nippier” than before.
Personally, I don’t think VW should be punished at all. The problem lay with the testing regime which used artificial means to test cars, so VW used artificial means to overcome them. Had the cars been driven normally, then the emissions levels would have become apparent and VW would have had to complied. The US, in particular, love to impose heavy fines on foreign companies to swell their own coffers. The most that should have happened would be to re-engineer the cars’ management systems to make them comply with real-time driving emissions. Of course this will affect performance. For cars that could not be re-engineered, leave them alone. If one of VW’s ‘cheat’ vehicles was put up at a bargain price, I would buy it immediately. Let’s hope that the damage to this great company doesn’t end up being too great.
I wholeheartedly agree.
An infinitesimally small number of people go into a car dealers and asks which make/model they have which puts out the least pollutants and buys it. If there were huge numbers who did then the streets would be full of hybrids or electric only vehicles and they would be more affordable – not a niche market like they are now.
Just because the US is so litigious VW have been penalised by people who couldn’t give tuppence about their vehicle’s emissions either in the US or anywhere else.
If Aston Martin, for instance, gave the top speed of one of their models as 185mph and you could only squeeze 175mph out of it (where appropriate) would you attempt to sue them. If you did what do you think that the outcome would be.
How many contributors to this debate even considered Nitrous Oxide or Carbon Monoxide outputs when they bought the car which they are now whining about? If you were that concerned about the effect on the planet you would have bought something “greener”, wouldn’t you?
Yes, I think there’s a good degree of hypocrisy out there. Also ignorance (which, as it’s a complex subject, is understandable). Many people seem to confuse “MOT” emissions with what the car actually produces when being driven on the road. Likewise, they confuse CO2 emissions (on which the car is taxed) with all the other more toxic emissions. If I had £1 for every time I heard someone say “but my car is really clean, it’s only £20 a year road tax”, I’d probably have enough to buy VW now!
Great company? Along with other German cartel members they don’t deserve to be let off the hook on a deliberate cheat – as opposed to a basic c**k up. Intent means everything here.
The issue of inadequate Adblue tanks as agreed in the BMW/Daimler and VW Group cartel sits behind this episode (Der Spiegel online Cartel). BMW though seem to have not been dragged into diesel emissions deliberate cheating to be fair to them.
“Inadequate AdBlue tanks”?!
That’s not entirely true, I’m afraid. It’s certainly true that the prescribed EU lab tests were unrepresentative of how cars are really driven. It’s also true that ALL manufacturers pretty ruthlessly exploited the weaknesses in those tests. However, it is also true that VW did “cross the line” by installing a device that made the car behave differently when it was tested. As far as we are aware so far, no other manufacturer went that far and VW gained a commercial advantage by doing so. That ain’t fair.
It is correct that VW should be compensated for losses incurred due to inept lawyers taking unnecessary action against VW. I hope that the lawyers were employed on a no win no fee basis.
I didn’t experience the drop in power, but did experience the drop in value , when I sold my Passat which appeared to have lost approx 3 thousand in value
And THAT, I think, is what VW SHOULD reasonably be compensating people for.
Owning a Ford rather than a VW, I find myself wondering how widespread this practice – fitting defeat devices or installing defeat engine management software – extends across the modern motor industry.
Is this information available?
As far as I’m aware, so far, only VW are being prosecuted, but there are a variety of practices which although arguably not “cheating”, are pretty darned near the bone! The entire industry is guilty to varying extents. This site might be of interest. I know the guy who set this up, and the mainstream car industry hates him! He pioneered the use of “portable” gas analysers so he could measure real world emissions (on which the new forthcoming “Real Driving Emissions” type approval test is based). Over the years, he has built up quite a library of test results for various cars. Click on the area you’re interested in (e.g. air quality, fuel consumption, CO2..) and see if your car is listed. That’s as close to an independent test as you’ll get. The downside, of course, is that the figures are slightly variable – that’s the problem with “real world” testing, you can never re-create exactly the same results twice because you can never get exactly the same road conditions twice.
I am pretty sure that Volkswagen are not the only ones doing it
Come on then – name and shame!
I would like to know how does “Joe Public” get compensation as an individual, without joining a group litigation? Neither do we want these ambulance chasing solicitors to gain from our predicament!
How do individuals register for some form of compensation?
I think you’d have to take VW to court privately (for which you are likely to need deep pockets)!
Definitely no compensation for VW. Do you reward bad behaviour? I don’t think so! When they have treated UK owners in the same way as in the USA then they can hold their heads above the parapet until then they should do everything to restore their reputation. The lawyers acting for the owners have to persue for justice. Owners have been unjustly treated and how long do we have to wait for our compensation?
Having read the comments I can’t believe the reactions of some people the so called diesel gate is complete bullsh*** as it is totally unnecessary to have the so-called fix done to your motor as it does not affect uk spec cars and the sad owners are just ambulance chasers Vw group cars are the best cars available in the uk
Where on earth did you get that information from! It absolutely DOES affect UK cars – even VW seem to think so!
Shame on The High Court of Justice – once again it demonstrates that the judicial system (and it’s ‘officers’) are out of touch with reality and the public. Shame also on the government in not encouraging and supporting a claims system from the UK. Ongoing, then the best way to overall fight back is not to buy a Volkswagen or others in its group. That, though, is no consolation for those who have or did own one of these vehicles.
The writer clearly knows nothing about the legal system. The money awarded is not compensation, its costs. Its not lawyers who bring actions its their clients and the lawyers act on their clients instructions, but then again they wouldn’t be able to get “ambulance chaser” into the article otherwise now would they?
You think those lawyers were up against a wall with a gun to their heads being forced by their clients to take on that case even though they didn’t really want to?!
I think it is appropriate for the head of VW ‘s CEO to be on a spike on London Bridge along with the heads of the High Court judges that found in favour of VW.
I have not been told I need to lodge a claim for compensation although I am affected because my Skoda has one of these dodgy engines. I have not let the dealer carry out the bodge fix either because so many customers complain about problems suffered after it has been done.
Why has the UK government been so spineless when this has been carried out in this country?
We need someone like Ralph Nader of the US to champion UK citizens.
Ralph Nader made the American consumer market what it is today. Ridiculously litigious. It’s thanks to people like him that we have the “may contain nuts” culture that we do today, and why McDonalds have to put warnings on coffee cups that coffee is…er… “hot”. The only people who do well in that sort of culture in the long term are lawyers. Frankly, the Americans are welcome to it!
The real losers are those who have to breathe in the dirty contaminated air spewed out of these vehicles. That’s all of us.
Not just VWs but ALL of them fall short of the regulatory requirements in real life. That, however, is being addressed as we speak.
I’m signed up to a group litigation as I had an Audi Q5 affected and eventually corrected – like others loss of performance afterwards too. I’m disgusted, I’ve lost thousands in petrol, in the value of the car as I tried to sell it on over 6 months and then had to sell it to Evans Halshaw at a reduced value as no one wanted it – I tried to take this complaint to Audi and got nothing but the usual legal contract rebuffs so then signed up to the group litigation. It’s unacceptable that they are to receive compensation, and insulting. The senior managers at VW knew – I’ve sat in too many boardrooms and heard too much c**p from these people trying to get out of such similar schemes blame others in the organisation that I don’t need to even be there to know! I don’t think I need to say anymore except I’m glad I’m not alone in this
I don’t think there is any single car company who hasn’t cheat the test to reduce pollution emissions. The problem with VW was they were advertising in the US a new diesel engine claiming amazing performance with the lowest emissions and some agencies decided to investigate the claims. The other car makers were not investigated!
That’s not true. BMW and MErcedes were investigated in the US within a few months of VW getting caught!
Due to feedback on performance I did not have my Seat modified. Until I read this article I was not aware I was to register for compensation which is not an easy task and little or no help available as to what was required to do so or if there are any options.
Since VW have admitted liability, have had at least one guy jailed,and paid out in several countries why is there such a delay in the UK. Will this become part of the Brexit negotiations? OR is a delay beneficial for the legal teams OR do VW hope it will simply go away?
You don’t HAVE to register for compensation! If you scroll down this thread, someone has posted links to a firm of “ambulance chasers” who are putting together some sort of UK lawsuit. You could join that if you like? They have paid out in other countries because other countries have different consumer protection laws. Nothing to do with Brexit. In the UK, any action you wish to take against VW would be under UK law.
Why is Merkel and the EU not throwing the book at VW?
Once again they prop up a crony capitalist company, behind a fog of excuses
Once again the EU supports the establishment and it ignores the people
There is more to the U.K situation than many people may realise. Although VW was the ORIGINAL company caught out, it appears in subsequent Government tests that Vauxhall actually has the worst offending model fitted with similar ‘defeat’ technology , the Zafira estate apparently being the worst offending vehicle in the U.K…….one of the Sunday papers motoring sections recently told us that the leading Japanese manufacturers had been fitting almost similar technology for many years before they too were recently caught out.
So that clearly leaves the U.K Government in a VERY difficult situation, if they force the VW issue what do they do about Vauxhall, and what will that mean to the future of Vauxhall in the U.K and the thousands of jobs just about being held in place if Vauxhall are forced to start compensating owners too ?
Strange that only VW is being prosecuted then?
Group action has started in England and Wales, not the UK. Slater and Gordon have yet to launch an action in Scotland and say that:
“Although a group action has been raised in England and Wales no court actions have been raised yet in Scotland. Currently there isn’t a proper procedure for group actions in Scotland. The Scottish Parliament recently passed a Bill which introduces group litigation in Scotland. We have recently had a meeting with Senior and Junior Counsel to discuss the best way to proceed and we are considering raising individual test cases rather than waiting for the group litigation legislation which still could be months away.”
I would definitely like to join a concerted action again VW as they are immoral in their distinction between US and UK compensation.
i cannot believe that the cheat in the software was not authorised at the highest level,not middle management and engineers at lower level.this was seen as a real good fiddle and a means of saving lots of
money and enhancing VW’s reputation.
I suspect the engineers were put in an impossible situation by the directors and the only way they could do what was demanded was by cheating. Yes, I think the “top Brass” knew, but tried to make the engineers a scapegoat. In any case, the buck stops with the directors – that’s why they get paid lots.
Volkswagen are the only ones that have been found out I can’t see that thay have been the only ones involved in bending the rules all manufacturers are as much to blame but have not been decoved and let’s not forget that it drummed into all of us to change over to disel by government
All other manufacturers (at least in the EU and the USA) have had to undergo re-tests and very close scrutiny as a result of the VW scandal. Whilst it’s not impossible that some are cheating, I think most probably aren’t. However, there is a very fine line between “cheating” and “taking advantage of the inherent weaknesses in the regulatory framework”!
I think it’s disgusting that VW has been granted compensation. What about all the innocent customers who bought a vehicle in good faith. It shows the injustice of the courts to the British public. I bought a brand new Seat Altea ( the first brand new car I have ever owned) thinking that it was good for the environment and it would probably my last new vehicle ,only to find that I had been duped. I will never by a VW again.
The ‘cheat’ device was just a technical expedient designed for a single test environment (very low speed, starting and stopping) and does not even operate in highway driving simulation tests. It has absolutely zero bearing upon the performance of the cars in normal operation. The emissions ‘fix’ in response to the revelation that the engines have higher-than-permitted nitrogen oxide emissions is a different matter, because the ‘fix’ comprises making the engine run less efficiently in order to reduce/avoid the non-stoichiometric combustion (lean burn) that is a characteristic of highly-efficient engines and which causes higher nitrogen oxide emissions. The money-grabbing opportunistic VW drivers suing VW for daring to sell them an efficient car are the ones who have caused the company’s financial haemorrhage and damaged the share price. It’s also a bit rich for shareholders to seek compensation from the company for the share price fall when their litigation is contributing to the share price fall. Don’t they understand that they themselves have to fund the compensation that they’re seeking?! As for the emissions ‘fix’, drivers should not be surprised that their engines run less efficiently after being detuned to reduce nitrogen oxide emissions – the very best thing for the cars is to remain well-tuned (and it saves money for the drivers as well). All the fuss about the ‘cheat’ device only came about because nanny-state bureaucrats arbitrarily decreed ultra-low limits for nitrogen oxide emissions when they moved from EU5 to EU6 standard – and plainly none of them understood the fundamental incompatibility of such an emissions standard with the perpetual pursuit of improved efficiency. What is the ultimate limiting factor, after all? The fuel supply. It is incumbent upon us to conserve the finite fuel supply, hence the pursuit of greater efficiency. When the fuel systems manufacturers (Bosch et al) threw up their hands in despair at the EU bureaucratic lunacy of the new standard, their focus shifted to ways of preserving efficiency whilst accommodating the new standard – and out came the ‘cheat’ devices. Virtually all EU6-standard diesel car engines will have been developed originally with some degree of a get-around for the nitrogen oxide emissions test; it just happens that Bosch probably developed the best such get-around measure. Admittedly, exhaust gas treatment is a viable way of mitigating emissions for larger diesels, hence HGV engines (and some large cars – Mercedes Benz, for instance) employing the likes of ‘AdBlue’, but it’s no panacea and most HGV drivers will have tales of how much worse their EU6-standard vehicles run compared to their predecessors. Yes, of course people worry about nitrogen oxide emissions, but these are generally only a problem in dense urban locations and – shock, horror! – dense urban locations have always been polluted. What’s more, it’s been proven that pollution in cities has increased in recent years due to the nouveau-riche fad for solid-fuel-burning stoves. Now there is the fad for electric cars, but these electric cars are the urban elite’s way of having their cake and eating it it, by moving their pollution out into the countryside (putting extra load upon the electricity generators who are situated far away from them). Don’t lose sight of that. Pollution is the price of progress, pure and simple.
Sorry, but you’ve got it the wrong way round. The VW “cheat” works ALL THE TIME that the car is being driven normally and only DOESN’T work in the “single test environment”!
The emissions limits were agreed between the EU Commission and the manufacturers before they were ever implemented. Other manufacturers seem to manage to comply without cheat devices – even ones who use Bosch engine management systems! What is true to say, is that no vehicle gives its “lab” figures in real life, but we’ve known that for years and it is being addressed now. Things will get “better” but you’ll never be able to give true “real life” figures because everybody’s driving styles are different.
VW owners have every right to seek compensation if they were sold something that wasn’t as described. That’s just basic consumer protection law. If there are “frivolous” claims, however, then it is only right that these be dealt with harshly. You say that VW owners will be picking up the tab for those claims, but that’s only true if they go out and buy another VW in the future. Many, I suspect, will not.
Claiming that “pollution is the price of progress” is somewhat defeatist. As you can see, we made great strides in the Clean Air Act of 1956. Would you have opposed that on similar grounds? We also managed to stop using lead in petrol in the 1990s. Would you have opposed that too? Throughout the last few decades we have steadily improved emissions of harmful substances to the environment (and not just from cars). Thanks heavens we didn’t have too many people like you around to oppose it!
To blame the thing on middle management engineers is clearly nonsense. It is tight and proper that the people at the top, who are responsible for the business and paid accordingly, should carry the can, whatever that means. We just need to be sure that the “sentence” is proportional, not a spiteful witch-hunt.
The same applies to any activity; business, the police, politicians, NHS Trust CEOs, what have you. The people at the top are happy to be paid well to carry the can, and they should carry it. Its a pity it doesn’t often happen.
Can anyone tell me who you have to register with before 26 October? Is it a law firm, and if so are some better than others. I see Slater and Gordon have been criticised. Has anyone signed up that could comment please
Yes, I would like to see him in prison along with the others – I would go further and chain a smallish engine around each neck. Please also save a wing in some prison for the useless Ministry of Transport.
I can’t believe how little some people seem to know about this issue, which they claim to care so much about!
What VW did was basically lie during the tests. Other manufacturers made their cars produce low emissions for the scenarios they knew they would encounter during testing. So when they were tested they had low nox and co2 readings. If you drove them in the same fashion on the road (you never would), they would produce the same low amounts of nox and co2.
VW made their cars lie during the tests. When they were tested they gave a low reading of nox and co2 but if you drove them exactly the same way on the road they would produce higher levels of nox and co2. They did this by selecting a different map (tune) when a certain set of conditions were met, which would only be met during testing. These were things like no steering input, the driven wheels moving while the other axel was stationary, amongst many others.
The other misinformation is regarding the difference between the UK and US punishments, compensation and buying back of cars.
It is due to having different laws, not the litigious culture in the US. Diesel emmisions tests for cars (pick ups are a different class) in US are stricter (especially California) than the UK. VW also claim they would have passed the UK tests without the defeat device, just in a higher car tax bracket. Whereas they wouldn’t in the US. Basically it was illegal to sell the cars in the US but they did. In the UK it wouldn’t have